You can't prove that, though. Nothing has been said ever about the Force influencing her decision. That's an assumption you're making up to "prove" your argument.

Subtext

Just stop.

Stop trying to make your personal beliefs and assumptions into facts. Because they're not.

Just stop.

Stop trying to make your personal beliefs and assumptions into facts. Because they're not.

Our meeting was not a coincidence; nothing happens by accident.

- Qui-Gon Jinn

It is literally a running theme throughout the Star Wars series that nothing happens by luck, it is always the Force. You are debating this in a movie that had a lightsaber that was lost down a shaft dropping into the atmosphere of a gas giant find its way to a remote cantina on the other side of the galaxy waiting for a particular force user to find it more than thirty years later when it was most needed.

Yeah. I'm the one making this **** up.

Subtext is a thing, not everything is explicitly stated in creative works. Learn to read between lines. Otherwise things must seem much more boring in your world without it.

Just stop.

Stop trying to make your personal beliefs and assumptions into facts. Because they're not.

Our meeting was not a coincidence; nothing happens by accident.

- Qui-Gon Jinn

It is literally a running theme throughout the Star Wars series that nothing happens by luck, it is always the Force. You are debating this in a movie that had a lightsaber that was lost down a shaft dropping into the atmosphere of a gas giant find its way to a remote cantina on the other side of the galaxy waiting for a particular force user to find it more than thirty years later when it was most needed.

Yeah. I'm the one making this **** up.

Subtext is a thing, not everything is explicitly stated in creative works. Learn to read between lines. Otherwise things must seem much more boring in your world without it.

You're reading into the lines in the perfect way that magically supports your own point of view and nobody elses.

Kinda funny how that works.

Yeah. I'm the one making this **** up.

Yep! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivated_reasoning

Mary Sue is more often connected with women characters because men simply can't write good women characters. They try not to make them a pathetic damsel in distress so they way over compensate. They simply don't know how to write them as normal humans.

Jyn is not pandering to anything. She is once again the token female in an all male cast, cause you see, you can't have more than one woman in a movie for some reason. Rey is the same in this regard. Yes there are a handful of women playing minor characters but even then, those handful are out numbered by droids and CGi characters. Once you realize that, all notions of pandering go out the door.

Luke and Rey are both heroes, with super powers to boot, so they naturally do things better than everyone else. They wouldn't be heroes otherwise. In that regard they are 'Mark' Stu/Mary Sues, as are most heroes. Luke was allowed to fail a bit more than Rey as no one second guesses themselves when they let a male character fail. Luke was the hero of the movies so he ultimately did win out and did great deeds. He was able to stumble and fail during his hero's journey however. Sadly, Rey, not so much. Her hero's journey was inflated and sadly flawed in the the lack of failures. This is troubling as it is the failures and over coming those failures more than the success which make a great hero's journey. A reason why every loves the second movie.

Compare this to Ripley's hero's journey in Aliens where she was a greatly flawed character battling PTSD and her skill set was well set up and she owned her skills, they weren't magically given. Rey still has two + more movies to right her ship, so maybe she'll be fine. Jyn on the other had, is so dead. Vader will kill off all the rebel scum after finding out where they transmitted those plans, and then whine horribly how he hates sand when he finds out he has to run off to Tatooine. So yeah, it gets worse than Rey, a lot worse.

BTW, there were flight simulators in TFA? I thought Rey learned to fly by moving ships for Putt for a quarter portion of what ever the hell that stuff was.

Rep to Razgiz... 3 up...

I'm a nobody then, as he represents my viewpoint...

I thought the Rey character was great. You wanted her to be a damsel in distress waiting for the rescue team? I'm glad she "found" the force and made her own way (I suspect all this will be explained, along with her presence on Jakku).

Why did I love it? Because it showed my five year old daughter that she doesn't need to rely on others to save her. The thing about Star Wars movies is we want them to be the way we originally felt them to be. I went four times at the age of four to see the original. I loved Luke! He closed his eyes and DID stuff better than pro's who were veterans. Now the baton is passed to my daughter and she loved the character. Yes they have taken it further than in '77 but that's the way movies are.

She also opened my eyes to how funny JarJar is! Hearing her giggle through TPM was great too!

Rey is cool, she's the unexpected, unhyped Jedi with a back story that few know yet. The are gaps to fill but that doesn't mean one must take Ep 7 on face value. After episode 9 you can whine about how perfect she was...

Until then, accept that there is a female heroine who is good at what she does. And she's better than Kyle, because she is a natural (if you don't accept that, it's because you aren't one and cannot relate).

1) All the hangers were locked down. Also, you think that tie fighter would get off planet? Plus, no hyperdrive.

TIE/sf has a hyperdrive.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/first-order-special-forces-tie-fighter

1) All the hangers were locked down. Also, you think that tie fighter would get off planet? Plus, no hyperdrive.

TIE/sf has a hyperdrive.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/first-order-special-forces-tie-fighter

Getting off the planet is a legitimate concern, though. A full 2 squadrons of X-Wings were unable to disengage from the TIE squadrons on Starkiller. A single TIE/SF might have some problems with that.

But hey, Rey's pilot ability in a TIE/SF would be spicy af. So you know, maybe she could have.

Actually, Rey haz madz paint skillz. She'll make that TIE/SF all pretty with orange and yellow paint that way none of the other TIEs will notice her.

All the hate for Kylo Ren, which I understand it, I think is going to be regretted.

I reckon that everyone is going to be crying when Rey goes full dark side, mauls Luke and Kylo ends up being the perfect mix of dark and light and ruins her in ways that even the Japanese would find disturbing.

Additionally, I would love for a scene where Rey tries to escape in the falcon and Kylo stops them by force holding the ship. They punch it in to hyper space and still, nothing. Luke has to communicate via the force to Kylo to talk him out of it.

Basically, what I'm saying here is, just like Phasma, I think they will make a massive improvement in the films to come whilst Rey goes evil.

How about, we wait for the story to finish BEFORE we judge a character?

In KOTOR for example there have been examples of people having their memories blocked using the force. The abilities are still there but the specific memories attached to them are not. What if Rey had this done before being plopped on Jakku? There could be any number of reasons why she has the abilities she does, and the training she does. We know almost 0 about her past, and that is probably intentional.

How about, we wait for the story to finish BEFORE we judge a character?

In KOTOR for example there have been examples of people having their memories blocked using the force. The abilities are still there but the specific memories attached to them are not. What if Rey had this done before being plopped on Jakku? There could be any number of reasons why she has the abilities she does, and the training she does. We know almost 0 about her past, and that is probably intentional.

I agree with that. I even said earlier in the thread, that she has the potential to become a good character. I'm simply stating the character is boring as she stands now.

If all we ever saw of Luke was ANH, he would be forever a whiny little ***** who saved the galaxy with a one-in-a-million shot.

Give Kylo Pilot VI (since he does have an EPT) and now hes smart enough to know that bright yellow tie is stolen.

All I want in life is for Leia to be a pilot card, and to have a PS higher than Kylo.

Really? That's all? I feel so selfish.

Give Kylo Pilot VI (since he does have an EPT) and now hes smart enough to know that bright yellow tie is stolen.

Unless Ahsoka does the same thing

Then theyre both 9. The mod says equal or higher can ignore the mod.

Then theyre both 9. The mod says equal or higher can ignore the mod.

6+2 is not 9 my friend...

Nvm for some reason i thought he was a 7

Then theyre both 9. The mod says equal or higher can ignore the mod.

6+2 is not 9 my friend...

It is in core curriculum as long as you show the work.

This thread took a serious detour from a stupid joke about how Kylo's relatively low pilot skill makes him unable to recognize a Captured TIE.

Kylo doesn't ever fly a ship. He has anger issues, never completed his Jedi training, has a crappy home made light saber, and was wounded. And he survived!

Get over it. All main characters in these kinds of movies are marie sues (whatever the hell that means).

Luke Skywalker: Mary Sue

Anakin: Mary Sue

Poe Dameron: Mary Sue

Darth Sidius: Mary Sue

Yoda: Mary Sue

It's true all of it: there are females, and they just might be as good or better than males in many things.

...This is so off the mark that I don't even know where to begin...

And actually, I've pointed out that Luke doesn't actually fail at anything. Anything.

I don't understand you can truly actually believe what you say right here. Luke NEVER fails. At anything? Really?

Really?... But Really?

You actually truly believe this statement and didn't just write it so you wouldn't have to concede the argument to kris40k?

If so, then please explain to us your definition of fail. I'm serious. It looks like we have to go all the way back the beginning. It looks like we need to get some common ground on the definition of words in the English language. Once we have that, then maybe we can have a more productive conversation on the Mary Rey Sue vs. Luke issue.

Why not take it to https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/forum/422-x-wing-off-topic/ ?

You're arguing OT stuff in the main forum.

Edit:

Said my piece, clearly people will disagree.

Let's leave it at that.