YT-2400 swarm is such a pain to deal with. It is an amazing way for Rebels to deal with bombers and no-squad lists.

It is also extremely dull, and it pains me to see all those YTs on table

YT-2400 spam list is dull/lame, especially when that guy shows up with 8 of them all unpainted. It reeks of netlisting and "i don't want to have to worry about actual commands for my squadrons", which means someone who doesn't really have a great grasp on the game.

Plus there is something very...unthematic about 8 YT 2400's.

4th at Worlds (also top in their day pool) had 8 Yt2400s. So did the winner of US National Championship I believe. Pretty sure those people had a great grasp of the game, just saying.

So did the guy that I trounced at my local tournie. I'm not saying they can't do good, are evil, that they should burn in hell or that they aren't nice guys.

Just expressing my opinion, along with Undead and Mikael that I don't like playing against YT-2400 spam

Congrats on your decisive victory over that type of list and over an opponent with a great grasp of the game. I'm sorry to hear your dislike of the pathway of achieving that victory. Most people would normally feel tremendous for this achievement because its a feat in both player skill and list building.

I'm not saying they can't do good, are evil, that they should burn in hell or that they aren't nice guys.

I'm glad that is the view you want to convey. However in your 1d4chan link of "that guy", it expresses a very negative character description, heavily implying the converse of your view.

I don't care that my opponent builds his list the way he does. It is my task to try and play against it as well as I can and try my best to win against it. I just enjoy playin'.

YT-2400 swarm is such a pain to deal with. It is an amazing way for Rebels to deal with bombers and no-squad lists.

It is also extremely dull, and it pains me to see all those YTs on table

YT-2400 spam list is dull/lame, especially when that guy shows up with 8 of them all unpainted. It reeks of netlisting and "i don't want to have to worry about actual commands for my squadrons", which means someone who doesn't really have a great grasp on the game.

Plus there is something very...unthematic about 8 YT 2400's.

YT-2400 is insanely good for new players, and even better for pros. Great stats and movement, and you get 8. You don't need to have a "great grasp on the game" to know 6 hull, 4 blue anti-squad, 1 black anti-ship and speed 4 is really freaking good with rogue.

In regards to netlisting, if you are on the forums it is nearly impossible not to netlist a fleet, a portion of a fleet, or feeling the influence of netlisting just by reading other peoples ideas. Every run Jan+ 3 X-Wings? Rhymer ball? Fireball? Imp Aces? Rieekan Aces? What about MSU? DeMSU? Yavaris + FC + FCT? I can keep going with all sorts of netlisting options you can pull from. This stuff happens when the community has had several months with a cumulative 1000s of games being played trying things out. Certain combos are simply better than others. And it turns out 8 YT-2400 is amazing support squads with any list that doesn't want to activate squads.

Don't try to make people feel bad for playing a list they enjoy or know is effective, simply because you don't like it. I think it is amazing against bomber lists, and I find it very difficult to deal with when I have 5 Tie/B and both my Intel get killed in round 3.

Every run

Jan+ 3 X-Wings? No

Rhymer ball? Once, back before I joined the Forums

Fireball? No

Imp Aces? No

Rieekan Aces? No

What about MSU? No

DeMSU? No

Yavaris + FC + FCT? No

Every run

Jan+ 3 X-Wings? No

Rhymer ball? Once, back before I joined the Forums

Fireball? No

Imp Aces? No

Rieekan Aces? No

What about MSU? No

DeMSU? No

Yavaris + FC + FCT? No

Freak.

Next Weekend, there's a 50/50 Chance I'll be playing another Weird, Freaky Archtype of my own devising, which I kicked around once before, but I'll attempt to try before refining come wave 5...

If I don't play it, then someone else will borrow something to do so.

I was going to, before I actually won two games today... So I'll maybe try to continue my unprecedented levels of success...

My, my, my, some ones freaky red dice came up sweet? :ph34r:

Fighter Control Teams, Nym and some Bomber Command Teams.

Hi Guys,

my favorite builds are those that have 8X YT2400 (take that bomber spam) and MC30s (really difficult to play to me compared to Demolisher but its so satisfying when you do!)

I hate playing against mass imperial bombers the most because 8 medium range black die is no fun at all for corvette and MC30s =(

Cheers!

My, my, my, some ones freaky red dice came up sweet? :ph34r:

Nope, all dice were horridly below average all day... I mean, the first 5 black dice I threw first game were Blanks... Then 2 Hit/Crits... 4 Hits... and 3 more Blanks...

I just had more dice than opponents, and more opportunities.

In the first game, I "lost" on damage by 120 odd points...

... but I'd secured 11 Superior Positions tokens.

My, my, my, some ones freaky red dice came up sweet? :ph34r:

Nope, all dice were horridly below average all day... I mean, the first 5 black dice I threw first game were Blanks... Then 2 Hit/Crits... 4 Hits... and 3 more Blanks...

I just had more dice than opponents, and more opportunities.

In the first game, I "lost" on damage by 120 odd points...

... but I'd secured 11 Superior Positions tokens.

You know what always delivers reliable damage? Ramming. With engine techs. And Rieekan to park your zombie ship in front of an unactivated enemy ship. Usually on an SW90B. SW7s also give reliable damage. Always.

I have solved your bad dice problem.

My, my, my, some ones freaky red dice came up sweet? :ph34r:

Nope, all dice were horridly below average all day... I mean, the first 5 black dice I threw first game were Blanks... Then 2 Hit/Crits... 4 Hits... and 3 more Blanks...

I just had more dice than opponents, and more opportunities.

In the first game, I "lost" on damage by 120 odd points...

... but I'd secured 11 Superior Positions tokens.

You know what always delivers reliable damage? Ramming. With engine techs. And Rieekan to park your zombie ship in front of an unactivated enemy ship. Usually on an SW90B. SW7s also give reliable damage. Always.

I have solved your bad dice problem.

Sure, going to buy me all of the CR90s and SW7s to do it?

My, my, my, some ones freaky red dice came up sweet? :ph34r:

Nope, all dice were horridly below average all day... I mean, the first 5 black dice I threw first game were Blanks... Then 2 Hit/Crits... 4 Hits... and 3 more Blanks...

I just had more dice than opponents, and more opportunities.

In the first game, I "lost" on damage by 120 odd points...

... but I'd secured 11 Superior Positions tokens.

You know what always delivers reliable damage? Ramming. With engine techs. And Rieekan to park your zombie ship in front of an unactivated enemy ship. Usually on an SW90B. SW7s also give reliable damage. Always.

I have solved your bad dice problem.

Sure, going to buy me all of the CR90s and SW7s to do it?

And the engine techs too. That's like $60 retail per SWET-90. Or $24 if you took the initiative to buy them when they were $8 a pop on that one website.

My, my, my, some ones freaky red dice came up sweet? :ph34r:

Nope, all dice were horridly below average all day... I mean, the first 5 black dice I threw first game were Blanks... Then 2 Hit/Crits... 4 Hits... and 3 more Blanks...

I just had more dice than opponents, and more opportunities.

In the first game, I "lost" on damage by 120 odd points...

... but I'd secured 11 Superior Positions tokens.

You know what always delivers reliable damage? Ramming. With engine techs. And Rieekan to park your zombie ship in front of an unactivated enemy ship. Usually on an SW90B. SW7s also give reliable damage. Always.

I have solved your bad dice problem.

Sure, going to buy me all of the CR90s and SW7s to do it?

And the engine techs too. That's like $60 retail per SWET-90. Or $24 if you took the initiative to buy them when they were $8 a pop on that one website.

Which I couldn't do, because they wouldn't ship to Canada?

$60. $20. $10.

Its all irrelevant when you have no money in the first place.

My, my, my, some ones freaky red dice came up sweet? :ph34r:

Nope, all dice were horridly below average all day... I mean, the first 5 black dice I threw first game were Blanks... Then 2 Hit/Crits... 4 Hits... and 3 more Blanks...

I just had more dice than opponents, and more opportunities.

In the first game, I "lost" on damage by 120 odd points...

... but I'd secured 11 Superior Positions tokens.

You know what always delivers reliable damage? Ramming. With engine techs. And Rieekan to park your zombie ship in front of an unactivated enemy ship. Usually on an SW90B. SW7s also give reliable damage. Always.

I have solved your bad dice problem.

Sure, going to buy me all of the CR90s and SW7s to do it?

And the engine techs too. That's like $60 retail per SWET-90. Or $24 if you took the initiative to buy them when they were $8 a pop on that one website.

Which I couldn't do, because they wouldn't ship to Canada?

:/ I'm sorry. well then, figure out a way to be that voice inside my head telling me to "use the force" and advise me on obscure rules during my games, and you might have yourself a deal.

well then, figure out a way to be that voice inside my head telling me to "use the force" and advise me on obscure rules during my games, and you might have yourself a deal.

You'd have to first read the Thousand Sermons of the Rules Forum...

You know... Honestly? Just make sure you read. Actually read the Rules in the first place... And you're normally gold... practice, in regular games, question yourself... Go... "Hang on, is that how it is... Let's double check..."

My Toddler tore my Rule book into separate pages. A Blessing in Disguise. Because now I can put the page with just the attacking flowchart rules on the side of the table for IMMEDIATE reference. Its always there.

Go over the FAQ - you can skip most of the advice, but definitely focus on the Errata - because that's a big deal... Before a Tournament, check the pages. Boom. At least put a nugget in the back of your mind that man, I read something on that recently...

And, for the rest of the time.

There's no point in arguing the Rules... Arguing the Rules in a game wastes time - because an argument usually ends up with no-one agreeing and going to a Judge.

Just go to a Judge, if its a tournament game.

If its a casual game, your Judge is your Rulebook. Just go, "Well, hang on a minute - let us read the rules and go."

X-Wing has "Do what the card says, don't do what it doesn't say." And its kind of the same for Armada.

"Do What the Card Says. No More. No Less."

I mean... Its tricky for me. I try to give advice a lot on rules, but people don't like being told what to do at the end of the day - and Rules are doing just that. So its always an uphill battle.

Just Yesterday, in a Local Tournament... I played against a fairly proficient Multi-Regional player... They were a player who absolutely spanked me last year at the Calgary Regional, and have been competitive at recent ones...

In the one game - I found out that this player did not know the Errata on Most Wanted... Now, granted, it was my Objective, and I was not an arse - I was jokingly pointing out "Man, imagine what it would be like without the Errata." as I was bombing his ship with Y-Wings and rolling Single Blanks.... And it came across "What Errata?"

They didn't know Most Wanted or its Errata very well...

Secondly, I hit them with Ruptured Engine, where you take 1 Damage when your speed is above Speed 1.

They were sitting on an Asteroid, which they could not clear at Speed 1.

They had 1 hull remaining.

Almost all of their shields were gone, they had 3 left on the portside, and nothing else.

They Did their shots and then proceeded to remove the ship, and I said... "Now, Hold up... You have a Nav Token, you can speed up to 2, and clear the obstacle..."

"Ruptured engine gives me a Damage card."

"No, it gives you a damage... Damage that is assigned to your ship. As it is not assigned to a Hull Zone, you assign it to a hull zone, if that hull zone has shields, you take that damage on the shields...."

Consequently, he lived another turn.

...

And another opponent - who I noted had quite a collection of Alt Arts and even bits and pieces from one of the Stele opens, had a situation where he ran into a Debris Field with a Flotilla, and attempted to take 1 damage to the front, and 1 damage to the Side...

Simple, small mistakes... That are generally a manifestation of not completely understanding the wording of the Rules, and the way the rules are written as Rules, and not english...

Damage =/= Damage Card.... Damage may result in a Damage Card, but they are not the same thing...

Spend =/= Discard. Spending may result in Discarding, but they are not the same thing...

Spend =/= Exhaust. Spending may result in Exhausting, but they are not the same thing...

A hull zone is Singular.

Little things like that... little things that are generally glossed over when someone is taught the game from someone else, rather than from the rulebook - and honestly, I can understand that - as the RRG is not a How to Play guide, or a How to Teach Guide...

.. I'm tired now.

Don't try to make people feel bad for playing a list they enjoy or know is effective, simply because you don't like it. I think it is amazing against bomber lists, and I find it very difficult to deal with when I have 5 Tie/B and both my Intel get killed in round 3.

I agree, just want to extend this point a little further. If you don't like a list that is on you, so truly making your opponent feel bad because of a problem you have is not nice at all.

Can't wait to pull out out my yt2400s at the next regionals. I'll make sure to bring a little bottle to catch the tears of frustration in each of my opponents. I'll also setup a recording device, not for the game but for the wailing and gnashing of the teeth.

That said I'm firmly in the camp of bring on whatever you like, I love playing against anything. My suspicion is that people tend to complain about the things they can't deal with all that well, YT spam is a clear target of that, just like rhymer ball, demolisher, admonition etc etc.... maybe try varying how you play, I doubt anyone would say they hate paying against anything right after they crush it....

My favourite fleets to use have always been MSU with squadron support, I think that trying to get diverse parts to work together is a real challenge and it's beautiful when a plan comes together. Of course I have friends who Nav so well with ISDs it's **** impressive too. Wish I was that good with big ships.

I like playing carrier fleets. Been Yavaris-ing since before it was cool. Like the range, like the theme, like the versatility.

I hate playing against gravity/thrust control fleets. I beat them just fine, but I miss having a bit more reaction ability. I plan ahead fine, but I always feel like the control fleets are too rigid of play sequence.

You know... Honestly? Just make sure you read. Actually read the Rules in the first place... And you're normally gold... practice, in regular games, question yourself... Go... "Hang on, is that how it is... Let's double check..."

This is really the best advice for anyone who plays miniatures games. I've been involved in a few different games over the years and it is shocking how often you see questions posted on forums or Social Media groups asking things that are directly stated in the rulebook or even on the rules cards/book entries for the models themselves.

There are also people who don't remember what the original topic is about and then sheepishly get back on topic mid-post...

Thus far, in my whole two games outside of beginners games, I've learned I much prefer larger ships that throw lots of dice around, with a handful of fighters to get in the way.

Don't try to make people feel bad for playing a list they enjoy or know is effective, simply because you don't like it. I think it is amazing against bomber lists, and I find it very difficult to deal with when I have 5 Tie/B and both my Intel get killed in round 3.

I agree, just want to extend this point a little further. If you don't like a list that is on you, so truly making your opponent feel bad because of a problem you have is not nice at all.

Where was anyone making anyone else feel bad because I (or anyone else) doesn't like a list? As it happens I actually tremendously like both of the guys that play what I refer to as lamo-rogue lists (one is a Firespray spam, the other is YT spam). They are great guys. We tease one another; I tell them I think rogue-spam is lame. They hate my MC30 spam. Life goes on.*

Thinking about this more over the last 2 days, I think my objection is to the exceptional cost-benefit ratio of YT-2400's. They are probably a point too cheap for what they do. Spamming them strikes me as capitalizing on that oversight.

* In all seriousness, the cheese-accusation banter constitutes about 90% of conversation at my FLGS...on any given night, most of the chatter is about how this or that is cheese, and further arguments in support of or against such claims. Most of it is just smack-talking and jealousy that such and such person's preferred army/force/fleet/deck doesn't have access to the thing they want. This applies to a spectrum of wargames, from Armada, X Wing, 40k, AoS. Am I alone in this experience? No one ever walks away from any of that actually feeling bad. My understanding was that this forum is just an extension of that. I really did not mean to make anyone feel bad, and that wasn't my intent.

My understanding was that this forum is just an extension of that. I really did not mean to make anyone feel bad, and that wasn't my intent.

The problem is, this is the internet.

Conveying things such as Sarcasm, Intent, joking ability - all of those generally have some amount of vocal variation, or body language as a component to their complexity.

All we have, on the internet, is the Raw state of the Words that are Typed... It is ripe for misinterpretation, both on input and output.

Sufficed to say, you "can" have Banter on an Internet Forum. it can be quite witty...

But always consider this:

"Imagine all of those times you've ever tried to tell a joke, or go over something funny, and you end up saying 'Well, I guess you had to be there....'.... Well, this is the Internet. We're not there."

I mean, as it is. I constantly get rebuked for punctuating the words I use with the emphasis that I do... But you know, what? I think in the end, it helps convey certain points that you wouldn't understand unless you were standing with me and heard the way I spoke.

I mean, as it is. I constantly get rebuked for punctuating the words I use with the emphasis that I do... But you know, what? I think in the end, it helps convey certain points that you wouldn't understand unless you were standing with me and heard the way I spoke.

You mean you don't always place emphasis on certain words when you talk? Only when you type? This makes me sad.

I do place certain emphasis... On certain words when I talk.. NOT ONLY when I type.

Don't be Sad.

No-one likes a Soggy Zombie.