OK, I've been playing since September and have always just tried to use the full 100pts (old school gamer, not wasting points) but my list I'm going to use this weekend comes in at 99pts. I could spend the 1pt but I thought maybe it was time I understood iniaitive bidding.

My list is probably going to be Rey/Miranda both PS8, if I have the choice would go first or second? What influences this choice?

It's pretty nuanced.

The question is, do you get an advantage by going first or second with ships of the same PS? Since both of your ships are PS8, initiative really only matters if the other guy also has PS8 ships.

So then it becomes a question of if you need to move/shoot first or would rather move/shoot second. Since you don't really have arc dodgers you don't need to move second because you won't be responding with barrel rolls and boosts.

Going first means you are less likely to be blocked, but again only by other PS8 ships...

I would want to go second to ensure that you get your shots. It will also help determine when to slam out of the firing arc with Miranda.

I would want to go second to ensure that you get your shots. It will also help determine when to slam out of the firing arc with Miranda.

I agree with this idea in that even though you don't have arc dodgers your opponent might have them (although many of these will end up with a higher PS so it won't matter anyway) and making them move first means they don't know yet where you are going to be so they can't dodge your arc as well.

Cheers for the advice

Basically, init only matters when there is a timing conflict.

Most commonly this is due to pilots of the same PS. Taking init means you move first and shoot first. Moving first can be good - it lets you block, it makes you less likely to bump, but it can also be bad - it makes it possible for your opponent to dodge you and control range for the engagement - and maybe take more offensive actions if they know they're not getting shot. The converse can also be true for either choice. Similarly when shooting - shooting first can be good - you get to spend your tokens offensively and force them to spend theirs, and in the case of Advanced Cloaking Device, you get to cloak before they can shoot you. But shooting last can also be good - you have a better idea of whether you want to use your tokens or not, for instance.

Init also affects other timing conflicts - this is often not important, but worth bearing in mind. Just as a for-instance, consider Whisper and a friend who has Wingman vs Assaj Ventress. If Whisper has the initiative, the wingman tries to clear her stress and fails, then Assaj assigns it. Result? Stressed, probably dead Whisper. If Assaj has init, she assigns the stress then Wingman clears it. Result: unstressed, cloaked, alive Whisper. There are oodles of similar cases, way too many to name, but in short:

• Make sure you know the implications of init for equal pilot skills. For Rey and Miranda I'd be looking to let your opponent have init so you know whether you want to SLAM and whether you want to use the title to flip round. But, if you're using a bomber variant, you probably want to take init, so you know where your enemy will be so you can apply bombs to his fayse.
• Make sure you know the timing triggers in your list and the likely cases where you might need to think about init. I don't think Rey/Mira have any of particular concern, but in particular TIE Phantoms want to be aware of init a lot from this perspective.

On the other hand, if your Miranda has "Action:" bomb, you may want to go first. You'll know exactly where your opponent's PS8+ ships will be and can plan precisely how to plant a bomb on their face.

Basically, init only matters when there is a timing conflict.

Most commonly this is due to pilots of the same PS. Taking init means you move first and shoot first. Moving first can be good - it lets you block, it makes you less likely to bump, but it can also be bad - it makes it possible for your opponent to dodge you and control range for the engagement - and maybe take more offensive actions if they know they're not getting shot. The converse can also be true for either choice. Similarly when shooting - shooting first can be good - you get to spend your tokens offensively and force them to spend theirs, and in the case of Advanced Cloaking Device, you get to cloak before they can shoot you. But shooting last can also be good - you have a better idea of whether you want to use your tokens or not, for instance.

Init also affects other timing conflicts - this is often not important, but worth bearing in mind. Just as a for-instance, consider Whisper and a friend who has Wingman vs Assaj Ventress. If Whisper has the initiative, the wingman tries to clear her stress and fails, then Assaj assigns it. Result? Stressed, probably dead Whisper. If Assaj has init, she assigns the stress then Wingman clears it. Result: unstressed, cloaked, alive Whisper. There are oodles of similar cases, way too many to name, but in short:

• Make sure you know the implications of init for equal pilot skills. For Rey and Miranda I'd be looking to let your opponent have init so you know whether you want to SLAM and whether you want to use the title to flip round. But, if you're using a bomber variant, you probably want to take init, so you know where your enemy will be so you can apply bombs to his fayse.
• Make sure you know the timing triggers in your list and the likely cases where you might need to think about init. I don't think Rey/Mira have any of particular concern, but in particular TIE Phantoms want to be aware of init a lot from this perspective.

Exactly. The one thing you missed was talking about arc dodgers. Ships like the Inquisitor, Soontir Fel, and Corran (when equipped with Engine Upgrade) want to go second. That way they know where the enemy is and allows them to be outside of arc as much as possible to keep them and their fragile ship alive longer.

Basically, init only matters when there is a timing conflict.

Most commonly this is due to pilots of the same PS. Taking init means you move first and shoot first. Moving first can be good - it lets you block, it makes you less likely to bump, but it can also be bad - it makes it possible for your opponent to dodge you and control range for the engagement - and maybe take more offensive actions if they know they're not getting shot . The converse can also be true for either choice. Similarly when shooting - shooting first can be good - you get to spend your tokens offensively and force them to spend theirs, and in the case of Advanced Cloaking Device, you get to cloak before they can shoot you. But shooting last can also be good - you have a better idea of whether you want to use your tokens or not, for instance.

Init also affects other timing conflicts - this is often not important, but worth bearing in mind. Just as a for-instance, consider Whisper and a friend who has Wingman vs Assaj Ventress. If Whisper has the initiative, the wingman tries to clear her stress and fails, then Assaj assigns it. Result? Stressed, probably dead Whisper. If Assaj has init, she assigns the stress then Wingman clears it. Result: unstressed, cloaked, alive Whisper. There are oodles of similar cases, way too many to name, but in short:

• Make sure you know the implications of init for equal pilot skills. For Rey and Miranda I'd be looking to let your opponent have init so you know whether you want to SLAM and whether you want to use the title to flip round. But, if you're using a bomber variant, you probably want to take init, so you know where your enemy will be so you can apply bombs to his fayse.
• Make sure you know the timing triggers in your list and the likely cases where you might need to think about init. I don't think Rey/Mira have any of particular concern, but in particular TIE Phantoms want to be aware of init a lot from this perspective.

Exactly. The one thing you missed was talking about arc dodgers. Ships like the Inquisitor, Soontir Fel, and Corran (when equipped with Engine Upgrade) want to go second. That way they know where the enemy is and allows them to be outside of arc as much as possible to keep them and their fragile ship alive longer.

I did mention it - bolded. Though not in great detail, and not from the perspective of the dodger, to be fair.

Basically, init only matters when there is a timing conflict.

Most commonly this is due to pilots of the same PS. Taking init means you move first and shoot first. Moving first can be good - it lets you block, it makes you less likely to bump, but it can also be bad - it makes it possible for your opponent to dodge you and control range for the engagement - and maybe take more offensive actions if they know they're not getting shot. The converse can also be true for either choice. Similarly when shooting - shooting first can be good - you get to spend your tokens offensively and force them to spend theirs, and in the case of Advanced Cloaking Device, you get to cloak before they can shoot you. But shooting last can also be good - you have a better idea of whether you want to use your tokens or not, for instance.

Init also affects other timing conflicts - this is often not important, but worth bearing in mind. Just as a for-instance, consider Whisper and a friend who has Wingman vs Assaj Ventress. If Whisper has the initiative, the wingman tries to clear her stress and fails, then Assaj assigns it. Result? Stressed, probably dead Whisper. If Assaj has init, she assigns the stress then Wingman clears it. Result: unstressed, cloaked, alive Whisper. There are oodles of similar cases, way too many to name, but in short:

• Make sure you know the implications of init for equal pilot skills. For Rey and Miranda I'd be looking to let your opponent have init so you know whether you want to SLAM and whether you want to use the title to flip round. But, if you're using a bomber variant, you probably want to take init, so you know where your enemy will be so you can apply bombs to his fayse.
• Make sure you know the timing triggers in your list and the likely cases where you might need to think about init. I don't think Rey/Mira have any of particular concern, but in particular TIE Phantoms want to be aware of init a lot from this perspective.

Exactly. The one thing you missed was talking about arc dodgers. Ships like the Inquisitor, Soontir Fe l, and Corran (when equipped with Engine Upgrade) want to go second. That way they know where the enemy is and allows them to be outside of arc as much as possible to keep them and their fragile ship alive longer.

No point in including Soontir in this list since the original question was in regards to his PS8 list of Rey and Miranda and Soontir is PS9 so he will get to go second no matter who has init.

So then it becomes a question of if you need to move/shoot first or would rather move/shoot second. Since you don't really have arc dodgers you don't need to move second because you won't be responding with barrel rolls and boosts.

Great description of why you'd want to go one way or the other but I think you're off on that bit about not wanting to go second.

I'm assuming that Rey will have the new Falcon title. Being able to see where your opponent went before deciding if that 3 bank is going to be a sloop is nice. Also, going second keeps same PS arc dodgers from being able to reliably get out of her arc and denying her rerolls.

Miranda also wants to move last so she'll know if she'll want to SLAM out of arcs.

but I think you're off on that bit about not wanting to go second.

That may be. My LGS hasn't gotten the HotR in yet so I haven't had a chance to play with Ren yet.

But the larger point is that init matters with same PS ships and then you have to decide what's better for you, going first or going second, and that decision really can't be made until you see what the other guy is flying.

But as thespaceinvader points out, it also matters for other timing issues.

But the larger point is that init only matters with same PS ships

This isn't remotely true, as noted above. Init matters whenever there's a timing conflict, and is sometimes absolutely crucial to the flow of the game.

Init matters whenever there's a timing conflict, and is sometimes absolutely crucial to the flow of the game.

that's true, and I'll go fix my post.