So Snapshot has a really, really open ended trigger. It simply reads: "After an enemy ship executes a maneuver, you pay perform this attack against that ship"

Blinded pilot reads: "You cannot perform attacks. After your next opportunity to attack even if there was no target for the attack, flip this card face down"

This isnt a timing thing like every other snapshot thread was. This is purely the trigger. Literally ANY movement by the opposing player triggers this card, you are only prevented from attacking out of arc or across the board because of the profile the weapon has.

This means that if you have Blinded Pilot, and somebody moves anywhere on the board, you have an opportunity to attack. The profile on the weapon denies it, not the trigger. Per the Blinded Pilot card, you had no target but had an opportunity so flip it down.

HIGHLY doubt this was intended, especially since the FAQ regarding gunner, vader, etc and blinded pilot would also apply to the "cannot attack again this phase" clause on Snapshot since thats part of the actual attack, which you didnt do. This effectively makes blinded pilot 100% useless on any ship with snapshot.

Any arguments against this? Yaknow, other than "Thats BS and you know it" lol

Any arguments against this? Yaknow, other than "Thats BS and you know it" lol

No, that's all I've got.

I see his point. Blinded pilot still passes if you have a normal opportunity to attack, even if nobody is in range/arc. We could even extend this question to Quickdraw. If Quickdraw drives through an asteroid and takes a shield, is that enough to flip Blinded Pilot, even if you don't have a shot?

Yup.

Blinded Pilot has 0 conditions for flipping it over outside being able to attack at all. If Quickdraw in your example landed on said rock, then no she wouldnt flip the card as she cant attack.

The original point of that blip on blinded pilot was so you wouldnt get shafted multiple turns if you didnt manage to get someone in arc the following turn you got the card. They did rule that additional attacks, specifically Dengar/Corran, DO satisfy the card, but now we have attacks that trigger earlier in the turn.

TIE xD on the other hand wouldnt get his multiple attacks, since that falls under the Gunner/Vader ruling: he didnt actually attack, so he cant trigger his cards.

I want to argue against this but I'm having a difficult time doing so. Thus I will resort to the only tactics I know. You're a stinkyhead.

Doesn't the range on Snap Shot factor into this? If the ship isn't within range, there's no opportunity to attack.

Doesn't the range on Snap Shot factor into this? If the ship isn't within range, there's no opportunity to attack.

The range and the arc restriction are part of the attack, not part of the trigger.

That seems incredibly hair-splitting. If you can't actually make the attack, where's the opportunity?

That seems incredibly hair-splitting. If you can't actually make the attack, where's the opportunity?

Blinded Pilot clears even if you have no legal target for your attacks.

Technically, everytime an enemy ship completes a maneuver then a ship with Snap Shot can legally measure range and check arc.

It defijitely seems like an unintended interaction.

Most defijitely.

I would not say unintended interaction. Snap Shot being mostly bad, having the opportunity to clear blinded pilot does not seems to make it so much better.

And yes with Quickdraw you would clear Blinded Pilot to. Quickdraw give you an opportunity to attack, so you flip down. The condition for them to trigger (Quickdraw and Snap Shot) is not, if you have a legal target then do an attack.

They just give you an opportunity to attack, then you follow the attack step to see if there is a legal target. But Blinded Pilote prevent that, you just flip it as soon as you have an opportunity. That is why it don't need a valid target, because you never reach that step.

That seems incredibly hair-splitting. If you can't actually make the attack, where's the opportunity?

If it did, then your normal attack would require something in range/arc as well to clear blinded pilot. An attack is an attack unless specified a kind of attack.

This snaffoo literally only applies to blinded pilot, least far as i know, since everything else requires you to actually attempt the attack and not just have an opportunity.

Kylo is going to be a sad panda if this isnt fixed by the time he shows up lol.

Could easily be fixed by making Blinded Pilot specify primary weapon though. The only additional attacks in the game are either Snapshot, retaliation shots, or "after attacking" shots, so nothing except snap would be hurt by that change.

That seems incredibly hair-splitting. If you can't actually make the attack, where's the opportunity?

If it did, then your normal attack would require something in range/arc as well to clear blinded pilot.

See, I always assumed it did. That if your ship had no targets in arc/in range, you had no opportunity to attack, and therefore you did not clear the crit.

That seems incredibly hair-splitting. If you can't actually make the attack, where's the opportunity?

If it did, then your normal attack would require something in range/arc as well to clear blinded pilot.

See, I always assumed it did. That if your ship had no targets in arc/in range, you had no opportunity to attack, and therefore you did not clear the crit.

For old!Blinded Pilot that was true. New!Blinded Pilot specifies that you clear the crit even if your attack would have no valid targets - you only have to have the opportunity. So being out of range or arc or bumps with the only remaining ships still allows you to clear it.

The converse is that Old!BP still lets you make an attack, which allows you to add dice to it, miss with it and trigger Gunner, trigger BTLA4 with it, etc etc. SO swings and roundabouts in terms of utility.

Ah okay, I wasn't taking the new wording into consideration.

That seems incredibly hair-splitting. If you can't actually make the attack, where's the opportunity?

If it did, then your normal attack would require something in range/arc as well to clear blinded pilot. An attack is an attack unless specified a kind of attack.

This snaffoo literally only applies to blinded pilot, least far as i know, since everything else requires you to actually attempt the attack and not just have an opportunity.

Kylo is going to be a sad panda if this isnt fixed by the time he shows up lol.

Could easily be fixed by making Blinded Pilot specify primary weapon though. The only additional attacks in the game are either Snapshot, retaliation shots, or "after attacking" shots, so nothing except snap would be hurt by that change.

I think we actually can make the argument that this snaffoo does apply to Retaliation shots as well. For example: shoot Quickdraw from the side (out of arc) and hit a shield then deal (new)BlindedPilot, QD now has an opportunity to attack even though no targets. Can QD flip the BP card?

That seems incredibly hair-splitting. If you can't actually make the attack, where's the opportunity?

If it did, then your normal attack would require something in range/arc as well to clear blinded pilot. An attack is an attack unless specified a kind of attack.

This snaffoo literally only applies to blinded pilot, least far as i know, since everything else requires you to actually attempt the attack and not just have an opportunity.

Kylo is going to be a sad panda if this isnt fixed by the time he shows up lol.

Could easily be fixed by making Blinded Pilot specify primary weapon though. The only additional attacks in the game are either Snapshot, retaliation shots, or "after attacking" shots, so nothing except snap would be hurt by that change.

I think we actually can make the argument that this snaffoo does apply to Retaliation shots as well. For example: shoot Quickdraw from the side (out of arc) and hit a shield then deal (new)BlindedPilot, QD now has an opportunity to attack even though no targets. Can QD flip the BP card?

Yup.

Conversely though, Dengar wouldn't I don't think - because his attack doesn't trigger at all if the person attacking him is not in his arc; he doesn't even get the opportunity unless they're there.

Yep, because Dengar specify being in arc to trigger, not like the other.

Yup.

Blinded Pilot has 0 conditions for flipping it over outside being able to attack at all. If Quickdraw in your example landed on said rock, then no she wouldnt flip the card as she cant attack.

The original point of that blip on blinded pilot was so you wouldnt get shafted multiple turns if you didnt manage to get someone in arc the following turn you got the card. They did rule that additional attacks, specifically Dengar/Corran, DO satisfy the card, but now we have attacks that trigger earlier in the turn.

TIE xD on the other hand wouldnt get his multiple attacks, since that falls under the Gunner/Vader ruling: he didnt actually attack, so he cant trigger his cards.

In my example she isn't on a rock, she just drove through one and took the damage rolled. You only lose your shot if your ship is physically sitting on top of the rock at the end of the maneuver. If only your maneuver template overlaps it, you lose your action but still have a shot.

I think it probably would be considered an opportunity to attack.

I find the argument for flipping Blinded Pilot with Snapshot due to an enemy ship having completed a maneuver to be a logical one, based on the wording. If a ship executes a maneuver near me I am provided an opportunity to attack, just like when I activate my ship during the combat phase to declare an attack. In both cases my ship becomes active and declares a target, then I measure for arc and range to see if I have a valid target - if I do I shoot if I don't I attack. In the case of Blinded Pilot (Force Awakens) as soon as my ship is handed that opportunity to attack I may flip the damage card.

Reading it over at first seems odd, but - logically speaking - this argument makes sense and has solid footing. If Snapshot doesn't pass the player an opportunity to attack after an enemy ship executes a maneuver then your ship never becomes active, you never declare a target, you never measure for arc or range, and you never get to attack. Based on current wording, either Blinded Pilot flips at any range with Snapshot or Snapshot has no effect and can never trigger.

1. Enemy ship completes a maneuver.
2. Snapshot Triggers
3. I now have an opportunity to attack (blinded pilot flips)
4. Snapshot instructs me to declare the ship that moved in Step 1 the target of my attack.
5. I measure for range.
6. I measure for firing arc.
7. If conditions of Snapshot are met in Step 5 & 6 I may perform the Snapshot attack, otherwise I may not.

On 17.11.2016 at 3:24 PM, Vineheart01 said:

If it did, then your normal attack would require something in range/arc as well to clear blinded pilot. An attack is an attack unless specified a kind of attack.

This snaffoo literally only applies to blinded pilot, least far as i know, since everything else requires you to actually attempt the attack and not just have an opportunity.

Kylo is going to be a sad panda if this isnt fixed by the time he shows up lol.

Could easily be fixed by making Blinded Pilot specify primary weapon though. The only additional attacks in the game are either Snapshot, retaliation shots, or "after attacking" shots, so nothing except snap would be hurt by that change.

I know, old thread. Just wanted to note that "primary weapon only" would completely kill Outrider.

11 hours ago, Tobl said:

I know, old thread. Just wanted to note that "primary weapon only" would completely kill Outrider.

Touche, totally spaced that out.

On 17/11/2016 at 2:24 PM, Vineheart01 said:

If it did, then your normal attack would require something in range/arc as well to clear blinded pilot. An attack is an attack unless specified a kind of attack.

This snaffoo literally only applies to blinded pilot, least far as i know, since everything else requires you to actually attempt the attack and not just have an opportunity.

Kylo is going to be a sad panda if this isnt fixed by the time he shows up lol.

Could easily be fixed by making Blinded Pilot specify primary weapon though. The only additional attacks in the game are either Snapshot, retaliation shots, or "after attacking" shots, so nothing except snap would be hurt by that change.

That would make dash never get a shot as he only has a secondary weapon with outrider title

Geez, they should have just made it "...after the next opportunity to attack during combat phase, flip this card". That's clearly the way it was intended, as the effect simulates a short time in which the pilot is blinded and therefore cannot aim. Why that time should be shortened for a pilot who snap-shoots is beyond me. Yeah, I know. Fluff vs. rules.

On 19/03/2017 at 4:31 AM, debiler said:

Geez, they should have just made it "...after the next opportunity to attack during combat phase, flip this card". That's clearly the way it was intended, as the effect simulates a short time in which the pilot is blinded and therefore cannot aim. Why that time should be shortened for a pilot who snap-shoots is beyond me. Yeah, I know. Fluff vs. rules.

I suggest you to not push your opinion as what they "clearly intended". They already show with Backdraft, that what player would love to be the intend, and the real intend is not the same thing.

According to the rule, you can clear Blinded Pilote with snap shot, and I don't care about supposed intend.