Hello everyone,
For the past two years I tried to run L5R campaigns that broke up for logistical reasons. Now, after a succesful LARP, I wanted to create a Winter Court game. I played in a Werewolf the Apocalypse orgenised LARP (in the style of winter court) and I know that there are several other World of Darkness larps in the same style here.

So, my question is mainly: What do I need to konw to orgenise this type of game?

Followup questions include:

* is there some documantation after 1200? (that's where the wiki ends)

* are there any Winter Court documentation that I can look at? (after a google search I couldn't find any)

* as I need to translate most of the Lore to my players, what are the most vital thingss? (other than Clan,Family, Class)

* I want to include the Spider as a playable clan. Should I? Did someone do it before?

*My core players really want introspection and deep roleplay. I know how to do this in a tabletop game (using NPCs) but how will you do it in a LARP setting?

Thanks in advance.

In order of questions:

1: There is, most of 4th edition to my knowledge is post 1200.

2: Several both official and fanon. There was a trio of books Kyuden Kakita, Seppun and Akodo/Ikoma that were for Winter Courts. Also a few others of the Fanon variety that cover Kyuden Hida, Moto and I think a couple of the minor Clans.

3: The culture is heavily important, I suggest using the Young Samurai's Primer, should be able to find it online rather easily.

4: Personally I disagree with them being part of the Great Clans, I've always liked using them as a steadfast villain group down in the shadowlands as a perverted mockery of the Empire.

5: Get some people to help out with being the NPCs.

What do you mean, translate the lore ?

Also there is an official pdf describing the first Winter Court megagame event, which offers insight into a Winter court.

Don't let allow Spider clan, it's a mess in-universe that you don't want to deal with until you master the universe (and even after, it's so full of plot-holes it is just a bad idea overall).

Don't let allow Spider clan, it's a mess in-universe that you don't want to deal with until you master the universe (and even after, it's so full of plot-holes it is just a bad idea overall).

Because people LOVE playing games when their clan is left out of the game!

Thank's for the advaice.

Are there any usefull links for really good once (aside from Doji Zanzasan's usefull advice)

Okuma: by translating I mean translating from English to Hebrew. Not all of the players know English or are willing to read books uppon books in English.

I thought so, but depending the langages I could have linked to you stuff in your langage, but sadly, I do not know of any ressources in hebrew.

There is actually no documentation for events after 1200; at that point in the story, AEG sold to FFG and now we're waiting.

Hello everyone,

For the past two years I tried to run L5R campaigns that broke up for logistical reasons. Now, after a succesful LARP, I wanted to create a Winter Court game. I played in a Werewolf the Apocalypse orgenised LARP (in the style of winter court) and I know that there are several other World of Darkness larps in the same style here.

So, my question is mainly: What do I need to konw to orgenise this type of game?

Followup questions include:

* is there some documantation after 1200? (that's where the wiki ends)

* are there any Winter Court documentation that I can look at? (after a google search I couldn't find any)

* as I need to translate most of the Lore to my players, what are the most vital thingss? (other than Clan,Family, Class)

* I want to include the Spider as a playable clan. Should I? Did someone do it before?

*My core players really want introspection and deep roleplay. I know how to do this in a tabletop game (using NPCs) but how will you do it in a LARP setting?

Thanks in advance.

Hello! I am an L5R Afficianado, and a fellow LARPer, so I am please to be able to answer several of these questions and assist you with this!

Firstly, there was an L5R LARP book which was published more than a few years ago. The PDF can be found here: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/23435/Legend-Of-The-Five-Rings-Live-Action-RolePlaying-Game

I cannot speak for how good it is, as I have never played in a game which uses those rules? But there it is. The rules are for more in the style of Mind's Eye Theatre, and allow for more direct conflict. The Heroes of Rokugan group ( http://www.heroes-of-rokugan.net/ ) also regularly run L5R LARPs at GenCon, Origins, and Midwest Gaming Festival. They typically run system light, scenario heavy games in purely theater style.

So, with all that being said, and the general questions (Theater style vs. Sporting LARP? Campaign vs One shot? Nordic vs freeform?) being put aside, let us get down to brass tacks...

1) That would be because the canon storyline ends in 1200 IC. After the ascension of Iweko Seiken as Iweko II, Daigotsu Kanpeki is removed as the Champion of the Spider Clan and replaced by Iweko Shibatsu. This causes Kanpeki to turn on the Empire, summoning his loyal forces to himself, and break the three Seals which were placed by the Five Races of Ancient Times to keep Jigoku's power in check. As a result, the power of Jigoku surges across Rokugan, and many of the Great Clans are forced to retreat to the Colonies to survive. And that is where the storyline was headed when it ended.

2) There were several supplements released in 1st Edition and 2nd Edition. For 4th Edition, I recommend picking up the Sword and Fan RPG supplement, which goes into detail about courtly matters. Finally, Winter Court 4 was an official Play by Post game run by AEG. The forum can be found here: http://wintercourt.l5r.com/index.php , and summaries of previous Winter Courts can found here ( http://www.kazenoshiro.com/forge/1/WinterCourtReview2008.pdf ). There was also a summary at one point for Winter Court IV, but I LITERALLY just spend two hours looking for it online, and I could find it nowhere.

3) The Great Clans, the families of the Great Clans, and the balance of the Courtier - Bushi - Shugenja positions of the samurai caste, and how the samurai caste stand in relation to the other castes (Heimen and Eta) are the key points. More than that? Is really up to the version of Rokugan you want to present. As long as you have the central "High fantasy setting where a group of Samurai gods fell from Heaven, and went 'Yeah, we're in charge now.'" conceit, you should be good.

4) Hooray! The Spider Clan love being included in all the things! However, it is very important to note that the Spider Clan is a LOADED issue. Many L5R players either refuse to acknowledge the validity of the Clan, or outright HATE on us at every given opportunity. As one of the Spider Clan delegation to Winter Court IV, I can state with confidence that the Spider Clan can and DOES work in Iweko I Rokugan, but not everyone will accept them (nor should they). The best advice I can give on the Spider Clan is to decide how you want the Spider Clan to be (infiltrators posing as other Clans but loyal to a shadow emperor, a recognized Great Clan founded after Daigotsu conquered Jigoku and made a devil's deal with Iweko I, a post-rebellion pair of extremes who are either loyal to the empire or loyal to a living demon god king, or some other variant on this theme), and sticking with it.

5) How many players do you have? How many players want deep introspection? To achieve this in a LARP setting, it really is no different than doing it in a Tabletop Game. Give them hard to impossible choices where there is genuinely no good answer. Classic conundrums of Bushido have hundreds of examples throughout Japanese literature hit them with some of those, and let them try to get their heads around it.

How can a clan everybody knows will betray the Empire (and they did) to destroy it works in a system of court and honor ?

Are you talking about Spider or Scorpion?

Or Phoenix? Or Unicorn? Or Dragon? Or Lion?

Well, at least there's no risk the Crane (too soft) or the Mantis (too destroyed) will rise against the rest of the Empire...

Major betrayals of the Empire as a whole (as opposed to things like haboring the Kolat, or letting Fudoists live, and so forth):

Gozoku- Phoenix, Scorpion, Crane

Scorpion Clan Coup (Clan War pregame festivities)-Scorpion (Yes, yes, Shoju had only the best intentions. Still shanked the reigning emperor and created the scenario which led to the Clan Wars)

Clan War Kickoff- Crab (But since Kisada had a cool helmet, he gets to be a Fortune. *sigh*)

Clan War Denoument- Depending on which version of the continuity you're using, Yoritomo's demand for Great Clan status might fall under this umbrella.

Khan's March- Unicorn and Mantis (Teflon Mantis never answered for their grotesque act of outright and blatant turncoat treachery at Toshi Ranbo, for the record)

Iweko II- Kanpeki ragequits and, wielding the mighty blade known as Plot Device, conquers the Empire

Clan Votes: Lion were going to make a bit of a power grab.

Thus far, only the "too busy sitting on mountains doing nothing to speak of for most of our history" Dragon are really exempt from betraying the Empire en masse. Yeah, Hitomi lost her mind, but that was primarily a Dragon civil war. The HDM scotched earlier plans for outright villainy.

Not to side track this too much, but this, " The HDM scotched earlier plans for outright villainy." stood out to me. I've heard rumors of this before, that the HDM changed the story team's mind about what they had planned for Hitomi. Does anyone know what that was? What did they have planned? Is it written anywhere? Just curious, esp. since I was always a Hitomi fan - I wanted that to be the family that survived the purge.

Thanks.

How can a clan everybody knows will betray the Empire (and they did) to destroy it works in a system of court and honor ?

To answer your question, beyond all the other betrayals and the like below, I would state: Who betrayed who?

The goal of the Spider Clan, prior to Kanpeki's response to Seiken publicly shaming him and removing him from the position rightfully due to him, was to wed someone of Daigotsu's line into the Imperial line, to place a descendant of Daigotsu on the throne through legitimate, legal, and honorable methods. Furthermore, yes, Kanpeki betrayed the Empire. Susumu Kuroko did not. The Order of the Spider did not. Even in the Onyx storyline, both the remaining Susumu and the Spider monks who were not forcibly converted by the Kokujin stayed loyal to the Empire and the Iweko dynasty.

But let us move past even that, and go back to my old standby argument in response to this frequently made accusation. In a dualistic setting, there is good and there is evil, and they must clash. Most of L5R's most popular arcs have been that clash of opposites, as the Epic Confrontation of Good Against Evil! is a staple of all Western fantasy storytelling (and L5R is VERY MUCH a Western fantasy story, it simply appropriates elements from Japanese, Chinese, and Korean cultures rather than using traditional Western staples of knights, dragons, and orcs). However, in a wholistic, such as the one presented in many Chinese and Japanese fantasy stories (See: Journey to the West for one), "evil" and "demons" often serve the will of a supreme order as a necessary, if unsightly part of the greater world. Yes, demons challenge the social order, but that is their purpose. And they serve as the monsters on the leash of heaven.

In my opinion, the most playable and most socially acceptable Spider Clan was a result of the Winter Court IV efforts of the Spider Clan playerbase. We managed to wrangle both Pro-Taint and Anti-Taint players into the same house, and got everyone to pretty much agree on two goals: 1) The wedding of the Imperial line to Daigotsu's line, and 2) Serving the Empire as the demons it unleashes on its enemies. Army of Yodotai ghost soldiers invading? Send in the Spider. Need someone to hunt the Dark Oracle of Fire in Yobanjin lands? Send in the Spider. Need the monster-filled ruins of a fallen civilization conquered and brought to heel? Send in the Spider.

A third goal we introduced in Winter Court IV was trying to reclaim Lost elements of the Empire, specifically Otosan Uchi.

* I want to include the Spider as a playable clan. Should I? Did someone do it before?

Just read the last few messages... This is the reason I put that Clan as restricted. Also, by having a smaller group, it's easier to keep the direction you want with that Clan.

In my opinion, the most playable and most socially acceptable Spider Clan was a result of the Winter Court IV efforts of the Spider Clan playerbase. We managed to wrangle both Pro-Taint and Anti-Taint players into the same house, and got everyone to pretty much agree on two goals: 1) The wedding of the Imperial line to Daigotsu's line, and 2) Serving the Empire as the demons it unleashes on its enemies. Army of Yodotai ghost soldiers invading? Send in the Spider. Need someone to hunt the Dark Oracle of Fire in Yobanjin lands? Send in the Spider. Need the monster-filled ruins of a fallen civilization conquered and brought to heel? Send in the Spider.

Sndwurks and I were both proud to be a part of that group and we hoped it would lead to many great ideas for Spider characters. As much as we were pariahs, we managed to build a strong and eclectic mix of archetypes:

Non-nonchalant swaggering duelist who still cares about children- Daigotsu Atsushi

Embittered sociopath who tag teams with his demure and genuinely kind-hearted wife- Susumu Naoru and Yuna

A weapons-smith whose gruff demeanor belies his talent at creating incredible works of art.- Gyushi Kageto

A well-traveled writer who finds noble service among even the most dastardly lot.- Susumu Naishi

A courageous soul who seeks, at times desperately, to harmonize her world's demon's with its better nature.- Daigotsu Tsubaki

These were about half the examples and should by no means be considered the limit to what kind of Spider character you introduce. Making well-developed characters is part of the fun of any roleplaying experience. Placing a Spider Samurai in your party just requires more consideration than a GM is typically adapted to.

Not to side track this too much, but this, " The HDM scotched earlier plans for outright villainy." stood out to me. I've heard rumors of this before, that the HDM changed the story team's mind about what they had planned for Hitomi. Does anyone know what that was? What did they have planned? Is it written anywhere? Just curious, esp. since I was always a Hitomi fan - I wanted that to be the family that survived the purge.

Thanks.

From what I've heard, the original plan was that Hitomi would take the role filled by the Lying Darkness in Hidden Emperor.

Personally, I always felt that the original plan was for Hitomi to unleash the Lying Darkness, kill Onnatangu, and become the Obsidian Monster trying to unmake reality so she could reName it in her image only to be the figure that the Empire has to unite AGAINST to stop at Volturnum. Essentially, Hitomi was going to be a souped up Goju Adorai / New Fu Leng. And then the HDM successfully convinced the Story Team that Hitomi was not a villain, she was just a confused hero, and they changed it, causing the whole Hidden Emperor arc of confusion.

Mind you, the original Story Team did not really plan the initial game to go past the Second Day of Thunder. John Wick and a few others have admitted as much in interviews, and this is why in many ways Hidden Emperor / Jade Edition was as confused as it was. They decided to go with a sequel when they had no idea what they wanted that sequel to be.