Yeah, REALLY not a big fan of Kylo. He's some of the sloppiest design we've seen in a while. He makes the matchup a huge deal for one thing -- a swarm might not hurt too bad from him, but Corran is just hosed. There's no way to outplay him, either. You can't get shots against Chirpy with Kylo without taking shots from Chirpy with Kylo; it's a Range 1-3 turret for both the action and the attack. And, most importantly, it points out FFG's apparent inability to understand why some ships do so well -- as with so many other kinds of tech we've seen, aces get stronger, while the already-marginalized, low-agility ships are just hosed.

I mean, look at the B-Wing! Once this card hits, there is absolutely no way to fly the B-Wing competitively. I mean, it's already been pretty well marginalized by tractor tech and aces; but this is the last nail in the coffin. Round one, you slap a Blinded Pilot on a B-Wing. Round two, same thing. Round three, skill-kill it. Barring some pretty bad luck, a quarter of your squad is dead, just like that, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

That's some bull. Pull it together, FFG.

Maybe I'm overreacting. Maybe it's too difficult to trigger. But even then, the fact remains: it hurts ships that are already hurting way more than it hurts things that actually need to be reigned in.

Stress, force bump, evades. There is 3 ways to stop kylo ren and there are plenty more

Stress yes, that works, but generally after he has fires at least once

Force bump, if they decide not to run dauntless, which with kylo, they probably will

Evades, well he ships kylo hurts the most don't all have evades or have low agility so even an evade may not help avoid the damage

Connor nets stop it too, but they are not easy to squeeze into most lists without completely changing it

Yeah the card has counters, but when you become forced into hard countering a 3 point card then maybe that card is a bit too powerful

Aside from connor net none of those are out of the norm to see in a match. Nothing is forced here to stop kylo or make it harder to use him. Ailowynn said that there was no way to outplay him when there clearly is and several of those ways are not something unfamiliar with a lot of list. Zerging it down is even an option since its going to be 49+ points of a list and has little to no way to reduce incoming damage. People who think kylo ren is going to make the sky fall or is going to be the next palp only see what he can do without seeing the many ways it can be foiled.

Yeah the card has counters, but when you become forced into hard countering a 3 point card then maybe that card is a bit too powerful

Seriously people, you are talking about a counter countering a counter to specific things. Can everyone take a chill pill? Yes Kylo Ren is probably a counter to specific aces. But not for the whole meta or range of x wing ships. So if the specific list you want to fly is scared of ONE specific upgrade, that card is broken.

I mean seriously, everybody here is talking like he is a balance expert. What I see is paranoid rebel ace players complaining that there is a card that "counters" a list they have in mind. So what, you expect Corran Horn to have zero weak spots? I mean seriously. And its not that big of a counter because like some people say, you can handle it. Go stress it or bump it. Then you say oooh no what if he slaps dauntless on a decimator? Well then you have a specific ship with 2 specific upgrades to make the whole kylo thing work.

Should everyone start crying how Soontir is also going to have a bad time in the meta now with so much stress coming in in addition to bmst? Seriously, get a grip, this is getting beyond paranoid.

Yeah the card has counters, but when you become forced into hard countering a 3 point card then maybe that card is a bit too powerful

Seriously people, you are talking about a counter countering a counter to specific things. Can everyone take a chill pill? Yes Kylo Ren is probably a counter to specific aces. But not for the whole meta or range of x wing ships. So if the specific list you want to fly is scared of ONE specific upgrade, that card is broken.

I mean seriously, everybody here is talking like he is a balance expert. What I see is paranoid rebel ace players complaining that there is a card that "counters" a list they have in mind. So what, you expect Corran Horn to have zero weak spots? I mean seriously. And its not that big of a counter because like some people say, you can handle it. Go stress it or bump it. Then you say oooh no what if he slaps dauntless on a decimator? Well then you have a specific ship with 2 specific upgrades to make the whole kylo thing work.

Should everyone start crying how Soontir is also going to have a bad time in the meta now with so much stress coming in in addition to bmst? Seriously, get a grip, this is getting beyond paranoid.

We [everyone] were crying over Soontir being teared apart with BMST... I can't wait to see why we are going to cry after release of Striker or Quadjumper review.

Yeah the card has counters, but when you become forced into hard countering a 3 point card then maybe that card is a bit too powerful

Seriously people, you are talking about a counter countering a counter to specific things. Can everyone take a chill pill? Yes Kylo Ren is probably a counter to specific aces. But not for the whole meta or range of x wing ships. So if the specific list you want to fly is scared of ONE specific upgrade, that card is broken.

I mean seriously, everybody here is talking like he is a balance expert. What I see is paranoid rebel ace players complaining that there is a card that "counters" a list they have in mind. So what, you expect Corran Horn to have zero weak spots? I mean seriously. And its not that big of a counter because like some people say, you can handle it. Go stress it or bump it. Then you say oooh no what if he slaps dauntless on a decimator? Well then you have a specific ship with 2 specific upgrades to make the whole kylo thing work.

Should everyone start crying how Soontir is also going to have a bad time in the meta now with so much stress coming in in addition to bmst? Seriously, get a grip, this is getting beyond paranoid.

We [everyone] were crying over Soontir being teared apart with BMST... I can't wait to see why we are going to cry after release of Striker or Quadjumper review.

I think this is an important point - everyone thought BMST was going to screw over a whole bunch of aces but you know what...

Mostly people don't use it, because it's an action that isn't modifying dice.

The things that knocked Soontir out of the meta are /x7s, dengaroos, and party buses. The latter two for obvious reasons, the former because they have fewer weaknesses than Soontir and can be used in roughly the same contexts, and can survive green dice screwing them a lot more effectively.

Kylo crew is good - but to cost an action and 3 points and a crew slot, he's better be freaking OUTSTANDING or he's just going to be binder fodder.

I really think it is a mistake in wording and donesn't meant to bypass shields. Waiting for the FAQ.

I really think it is a mistake in wording and donesn't meant to bypass shields. Waiting for the FAQ.

If you're right, then this is a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE card, and not remotely worth the action, points or slot, let alone all 3.

But you're not, so

I Think the same, the wording on "I´ll show you the dark side should be changed" . A lot of ships and Aces will be out of the meta when Chirenau and Ren are in the tables, and that´s not nice. It makes me remember when the pre nerf phantom ruined the meta. In those days you only see VI Han and company or Phantom + Decimator.

Any other list lost the matches against the phantom 70% times, or more.

[Deleted]

Never mind, I thought X-Wing was an easy game with simple rules.

Yeah, REALLY not a big fan of Kylo. He's some of the sloppiest design we've seen in a while. He makes the matchup a huge deal for one thing -- a swarm might not hurt too bad from him, but Corran is just hosed. There's no way to outplay him, either. You can't get shots against Chirpy with Kylo without taking shots from Chirpy with Kylo; it's a Range 1-3 turret for both the action and the attack. And, most importantly, it points out FFG's apparent inability to understand why some ships do so well -- as with so many other kinds of tech we've seen, aces get stronger, while the already-marginalized, low-agility ships are just hosed.

I mean, look at the B-Wing! Once this card hits, there is absolutely no way to fly the B-Wing competitively. I mean, it's already been pretty well marginalized by tractor tech and aces; but this is the last nail in the coffin. Round one, you slap a Blinded Pilot on a B-Wing. Round two, same thing. Round three, skill-kill it. Barring some pretty bad luck, a quarter of your squad is dead, just like that, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

That's some bull. Pull it together, FFG.

Maybe I'm overreacting. Maybe it's too difficult to trigger. But even then, the fact remains: it hurts ships that are already hurting way more than it hurts things that actually need to be reigned in.

Stress, force bump, evades. There is 3 ways to stop kylo ren and there are plenty more

4. Determination.

I really think it is a mistake in wording and donesn't meant to bypass shields. Waiting for the FAQ.

If you're right, then this is a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE card, and not remotely worth the action, points or slot, let alone all 3.

But you're not, so

Really? Why? A lot of the time shuttles have no target and are no target. Activating Kylo Ren would be the right choice here. Remember that every ship can "use" him. So you just need to land a crit with anything else and you can assign the critical card.

Anything else would be strange

I really think it is a mistake in wording and donesn't meant to bypass shields. Waiting for the FAQ.

If you're right, then this is a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE card, and not remotely worth the action, points or slot, let alone all 3.

But you're not, so

Really? Why? A lot of the time shuttles have no target and are no target. Activating Kylo Ren would be the right choice here. Remember that every ship can "use" him. So you just need to land a crit with anything else and you can assign the critical card.

Anything else would be strange

Because spending an action and 3 points and a crew slot you could have e.g. half of Palpatine, Hux, Fleet Officer, Systems Officer, Tactician, Vader, or... nothing... in, in order to assign a crit card that only gets used if you actually manage to deal a faceup damage *anyway* is a waste of points, actions and slots.

Just maybe it might be worth it if it took effect the first time *any* damage card was assigned, but if you're assigning a face up card anyway... it's already going to hurt a lot pretty much regardless of which it is - indeed, one of the least painful crits, Shaken Pilot, is already a Pilot crit, so...

If you only get to deal the IWSYTDS card when you would normally deal a faceup anway, literally the only advantage you get out of your action and 3 points is choosing which crit it is. That's certainly an advantage, but it's not exactly a big one...

Kylo has the same exact wording as any other ignore shields card: deal them a card. Why would he magically be affected by shields?

Again: the usual effect of a crit is NOT negated by a shield, its "remove 1 shield or deal 1 faceup card" - the OR means its effect is conditional, but Kylo removes the condition and the draw and just goes "Here take this"

First time i saw Kylo i didnt notice he ignored shields and i immediately passed him off as another insanely pathetic imperial card. 3pts AND an action?! f off already, Scum have a bazillion awesome crew and Rebels arent too shabby either, meanwhile Imps have Vader/Palp, which are crew that only work on specific ships. Only other crew we ever use are not imp only.

Kylo Ren (Crew) is a toolbox card. You take him because a single ship is straight hard countered by Corran Horn - as I had the displeasure of rediscovering twice on Saturday - and you want to hedge your bets against that.

Exactly. Wonder if OP has seen what Corran does to chirpy currently.

Kylo has the same exact wording as any other ignore shields card: deal them a card. Why would he magically be affected by shields?

Again: the usual effect of a crit is NOT negated by a shield, its "remove 1 shield or deal 1 faceup card" - the OR means its effect is conditional, but Kylo removes the condition and the draw and just goes "Here take this"

First time i saw Kylo i didnt notice he ignored shields and i immediately passed him off as another insanely pathetic imperial card. 3pts AND an action?! f off already, Scum have a bazillion awesome crew and Rebels arent too shabby either, meanwhile Imps have Vader/Palp, which are crew that only work on specific ships. Only other crew we ever use are not imp only.

It is "suffering a critical". For me, you only "suffer" a critical when you have no shields. But yes, I also think the wording is not good here, either way.

And because you mentioned: For Vader you have to get 2 damage in order to give one critical (shields are not bypassed here). So pointwise Kylo would be ok for me. Everything else: I agree here, if it would bypass shields, it would be overpowered, or at least it could result in some weird gameplay or squad building.

It is "suffering a critical". For me, you only "suffer" a critical when you have no shields. But yes, I also think the wording is not good here, either way.

You are demonstrably wrong about this. Continuing to claim it when the rules proving you wrong have repeatedly been quoted in this thread helps nothing and no-one.

Please stop doing that.

Suffering a Critical Damage is what happens when a [kaboom] result remains after the Compare Results step and damage is dealt by it, to shields or hull. This is not questionable within the rules, regardless of how many people try.

It is "suffering a critical". For me, you only "suffer" a critical when you have no shields. But yes, I also think the wording is not good here, either way.

You are demonstrably wrong about this. Continuing to claim it when the rules proving you wrong have repeatedly been quoted in this thread helps nothing and no-one.

Please stop doing that.

Suffering a Critical Damage is what happens when a [kaboom] result remains after the Compare Results step and damage is dealt by it, to shields or hull. This is not questionable within the rules, regardless of how many people try.

Unfortunately, you are right

[Deleted]

Never mind, I thought X-Wing was an easy game with simple rules.

Only when players read the rules for what they say instead of what they think they should say.

The only reason I'm worried about this card is it seems to need to be explained in detail for every other player that reads it and thinks it triggers on a face up damage card and not on a critical result.

My thoughts exactly. I already have to explain a lot of trivial things that are flatout described in the FAQ to people.

Faced one guy on the 12th that refused to accept Kanan works on debris, and his buddy that was next to us didnt believe it either. You cant argue something that is DIRECTLY mentioned in the FAQ lol.

People think this game is cut and dry rules. Since when is a miniatures game that simple? Xwing is the simplest mini game out there but its still rather complex and phrases/events mean everything.

People adding rules to things also bug me. Any idea how many games i had in my area with an SF before people stopped expecting me to fire twice out the rear? I dont get where that came from but EVERYBODY around here (except maybe 1) thought i could fire twice out the rear.

People adding rules to things also bug me. Any idea how many games i had in my area with an SF before people stopped expecting me to fire twice out the rear? I dont get where that came from but EVERYBODY around here (except maybe 1) thought i could fire twice out the rear.

That one seems to show up a lot. I think it's because people read it as "When attacking you may add an extra die to an attack in the front arc. If you choose not to do so make an additional attack out the rear arc."

It's totally not what it says but it is worded in such a way that many people seem to not get is that the title only triggers when making an attack out of the front arc.

My thoughts exactly. I already have to explain a lot of trivial things that are flatout described in the FAQ to people.

Faced one guy on the 12th that refused to accept Kanan works on debris, and his buddy that was next to us didnt believe it either. You cant argue something that is DIRECTLY mentioned in the FAQ lol.

People think this game is cut and dry rules. Since when is a miniatures game that simple? Xwing is the simplest mini game out there but its still rather complex and phrases/events mean everything.

People adding rules to things also bug me. Any idea how many games i had in my area with an SF before people stopped expecting me to fire twice out the rear? I dont get where that came from but EVERYBODY around here (except maybe 1) thought i could fire twice out the rear.

In those players defense... The SF sure seems like it should be able to do that... The title is, well, pretty underwhelming as is.

My thoughts exactly. I already have to explain a lot of trivial things that are flatout described in the FAQ to people.

Faced one guy on the 12th that refused to accept Kanan works on debris, and his buddy that was next to us didnt believe it either. You cant argue something that is DIRECTLY mentioned in the FAQ lol.

People think this game is cut and dry rules. Since when is a miniatures game that simple? Xwing is the simplest mini game out there but its still rather complex and phrases/events mean everything.

People adding rules to things also bug me. Any idea how many games i had in my area with an SF before people stopped expecting me to fire twice out the rear? I dont get where that came from but EVERYBODY around here (except maybe 1) thought i could fire twice out the rear.

I thought I knew the FAQ, but I missed that one lol

That's actually new to me, i never read the SF like that.

But i did read Ren initially in a way that it would require a hull crit. It was just a case of not expecting it to work on shields, but when i realized that Maarek and Boba Crew had a very different wording, it became clear.