We're playing the original campaign against inspiring leadership and we've lost almost every mission.

And by 'lost almost every mission', he means 'lost 3 out of 5' (3 out of 6 as of today).

Poor rebels.

I'm really enjoying Inspiring Leadership. Lots of tactical options. I haven't taken Field General, so far got the 'focus 5 figures when a leader is defeated', Press on, which is getting less useful as the heroes hit harder (plus I kept forgetting about it today), and Strategic Planning.

The last is the one that worries the group, that I can switch an already activated group to ready at the cost of exhausting one of equal or greater cost means they can never discount a group that's already gone.

If you're facing Gideon, Diala, Fenn and Gaarkhan or really just those first three and any random fourth hero you're going to need Subervsive Tactics. But if you like never winning any missions then don't pick Subversive Tactics.

I'm not sure whether Subversive Tactics is better than any of the other classes or not, but it is definitely massively less fun for the Rebels.

Rebel player 1: "Right guys, here's the plan - you use that skill, then I'll use this skill, then you use that skill and if we roll well we'll win the mission!"

Rebel player 2: "Great, I'll try that then! It's a long shot but it might just work!"

Imperial player: "You can't, because my Subversive Tactics stop you."

All Rebel players: "Oh. Well then... oh."

I guess if stopping other people doing cool stuff is your idea of fun, and if the "other people" involved don't mind (maybe they like the challenge of a no-skills play-style), Subversive Tactics is just dandy. But if anyone in the group is playing the game in the hope of their character doing cool things, it's a fun-killer.

Subversive tactics like any of the classes, is like an "achievement unlocked" thing to me. But if you want to introduce new players, it's best to use something like military might. They're all hard classes, MM will have you swamped with troopers, but at least the players will have fun using their abilities. If they're constantly strained AND lose the missions, they might not come back for the next campaign.

subversive tactics is to the Rebel Players what Gideon and Fenn are for the Imperial Player.

If you don't want me to use the broken Subversive Tactics class deck, don't use the broken heroes.

I think a lot of the problems in ST boils down to "new/inexperienced players". It's definitely not a newbie-friendly deck since you're denying them all their juicy abilities, and it requires a very specific build (i.e. Rebels using all passive-abilities)

What this means for Rebels: pretty much all strain-related stuff are out of the game/much less appealing than before. Strain move? Not worth it anymore in most cases. Resting? Probably not unless you want to get shot . Surge-recover? Need all the help you can get but still not looking pretty . Special abilities? Not a chance especially when combined with No Quarter (straight damage) or Oppression (denies surge-recovery + Imperial units live longer)

What Rebels can do: change build to all-passive abilities. I'll take Fenn as an example

Old: Rebel elite for the blast 2, Suppressive fire to wreck more havoc with your havoc shot. Take cover for chance of dodge

Now: Tactical movement (as always, but even more important now), Adrenaline rush, Trench fighter, Rebel elite

You'll notice Rebel elite is still a very good card, just not as good anymore, and I'd put it at a much lower purchasing priority than before if I'm faced with ST

Also Trench fighter is probably not worth it (as least I think I'd still take Suppressive fire) without ST, but now faced with ST deck you bet it's reversed and I'll take TF > SF

Fenn isn't that strain heavy to start with

I think he is countered more effectively by the extra white defence die in Technological Superiority, which makes his multiple blast kill strategy about 30% less effective right off the bat.

I'm playing Gideon, Fenn, Diala, and Jynn versus Subversive Tactics in my first campaign. Fenn is pretty good against it - he has innate strain recovery even at zero XP, Rebel Elite adds to Endurance and his ability only costs 1 anyway. He feels the least restricted by the strain the Imp is dealing out. He can also get a rest bonus with his reward card. He does have some skills that add to his strain cost, but there are good free alternatives. Plus I might not want Suppressive Fire over Trench Fighter anyway, since it feels like the Imp is more likely to be spawning in a pair of 6 Health Trandoshans instead of three 3 health Stormies who have to take stun or die. Suppressive Fire might still be still be good, but more single target for free might be more important.

Jynn, OTOH, has been getting crushed by it so far. With only 4 End and a 2 cost basic power, she's often ending up unable to use her powers. Even if she's starting fresh, getting shot by a Trandoshan guy for a strain and bleed, plus the +1 damage/strain tap tends to run her up to the strain limit immediately. She's also super surge hungry with Gunslinger, so the strain recovery option is very expensive for her. Hopefully my new Get Cocky will change that.

Bleed on everything is no friend to Gideon either, since using Command can then cost 5 strain total.

On the whole, ST has been kind of annoying, but forcing tough resource management decisions isn't necessarily all bad. But that's playing 4 heroes, so I usually have someone who can activate something. I have tons of options on how to play a round even if everyone starts with max strain. If someone was just playing Jynn, then getting strain locked and hit with the 'pick a cancel (evade?) or take strain" ST card would be pretty bad, since most of their options disappear.

Bleed on everything is no friend to Gideon either, since using Command can then cost 5 strain total.

What do you mean? Gideon doesn't need to suffer any strain for Masterstroke , so 2 strain for Command and then 1 from bleeding is still only 3. (And because bleeding only applies to actions during your own activation, it does not affect the figures performing attacks or moves from Command , because 1- they are not actions, and 2- they are not during that figure's activation .)

And with Mobile Tactician Gideon can always use his other action for Rest, although has to do it judiciously, and preferably during the same round as other heroes to minimize the effect of Exploit Weakness .

Bleed on everything is no friend to Gideon either, since using Command can then cost 5 strain total.

What do you mean? Gideon doesn't need to suffer any strain for Masterstroke , so 2 strain for Command and then 1 from bleeding is still only 3. (And because bleeding only applies to actions during your own activation, it does not affect the figures performing attacks or moves from Command.)

And with Mobile Tactician Gideon can always use his other action for Rest, although has to do it judiciously, and preferably during the same round as other heroes to minimize the effect of Exploit Weakness .

It only applies on your turn? Whoops.

In my campaign I finally got Mortar, took me 3 missions as I lost both story missions. So now I think that will help, I am finding Hoth to be tilted towards the Rebels. Usually I can control the missions for wins and losses but I am struggling to pick up a story win now. I did deny them Diala's side mission though that was good.

Now I am trying to figure out if it is better to go after Power to Shields or Reactive Armor. I was thinking I might buy the Agenda card to downgrade the cost of the tank and then go after RA. But that means I wouldn't get PoS until probably Mission 9 or 10.

Jynn, OTOH, has been getting crushed by it so far. With only 4 End and a 2 cost basic power, she's often ending up unable to use her powers. Even if she's starting fresh, getting shot by a Trandoshan guy for a strain and bleed, plus the +1 damage/strain tap tends to run her up to the strain limit immediately. She's also super surge hungry with Gunslinger, so the strain recovery option is very expensive for her. Hopefully my new Get Cocky will change that.

If Jynn attacks 3 times she can pull 3 strain off, spending 2 for her ability she ends up healing 1 strain, Get Cocky removes a further 2 strain for total of 3 strain healed. She just has to have the right weapon and mods and should be a priority for getting them. If Gideon is pushing her, that is a further 2 attacks and his shout a further 2 strain removed. Jynn can HEAL 7 in a turn with 5 attacks.

Subversive has never really impressed me as being any stronger than other decks, and in many ways is much easier to counter. Yes, you want more surge heavy weapons which means you'll be doing slightly less damage, but the deck has nothing in it defensively that the Rebels can't play around. It's not like other decks that add block and health with not way to counter them.

In my campaign I finally got Mortar, took me 3 missions as I lost both story missions. So now I think that will help, I am finding Hoth to be tilted towards the Rebels. Usually I can control the missions for wins and losses but I am struggling to pick up a story win now. I did deny them Diala's side mission though that was good.

Now I am trying to figure out if it is better to go after Power to Shields or Reactive Armor. I was thinking I might buy the Agenda card to downgrade the cost of the tank and then go after RA. But that means I wouldn't get PoS until probably Mission 9 or 10.

The start of the Hoth campaign favors the rebels. The first mission is pretty easy for them, and it leads towhite noise, which is really hard on the imperial. The rebels have to do a few mistakes for you to win white noise, including letting officers live.

Don't give up hope, it gets easier. Depending on how many bane/boons there are, return to echo base heavily favors the imperial and then rescue op (if imperial win) is also easier for the imperial. This should help greatly with XP.

I usually don't like cards that need you to spend threat until late in the campaign, but power to shields looks like it is very potent. On first look, denying pierce might often be your best option, so it depends on who the rebels are and how they are equipped. Negating stuns entirely also seems good. Anyways, I think this card is great and could be worth picking up next. I think reactive armor is better with HKs than the tank.

Ya and they have Verana as well, so it makes me weary to buy the agenda card to downgrade my tank cost and bring it into battle more. Or maybe one attack from the tank against my own troops is worth blowing them up continuously.

Right now threat is to low for me to get the HK's in but once I hit 4 I plan to bring them regularly with reactive armor. I've got a few missions to figure out what I want next, I guess it could all depend how I do on the next story mission.

I was planning on taking it a bit easy on the Rebels this time around as we have new players, including a friend of my wife that is just not a gamer at all.. but the story missions have made me feel like I have no control lol.

So having just played the first mission in the Hoth campaign (as the first game ever with a beginner group). The rebels got a narrow win. I made some mistakes. I am playing Military Might - thinking it as beginner friendly. But now that i see the endless ranks card that gives me troopers (both when deploying a card AND when buying individual model BTW?) for 1 point.. Isnt that way too powerful to be fun in the long run?

best Svend

Endless Ranks only gives -1 threat discount for deploying groups. It does not count for reinforcing figures.

Endless Rank s used to be much worse than other class cards of Military Might (like Sustained Fire , Assault Armor , and Combat Veterans ). With more expansions coming with more groups with the trooper trait - especially Jet Troopers - Endless Ranks has become better though.

I still think that Sustained Fire is the best card.

7 minutes ago, GilmoreDK said:

So having just played the first mission in the Hoth campaign (as the first game ever with a beginner group). The rebels got a narrow win. I made some mistakes. I am playing Military Might - thinking it as beginner friendly. But now that i see the endless ranks card that gives me troopers (both when deploying a card AND when buying individual model BTW?) for 1 point.. Isnt that way too powerful to be fun in the long run?

best Svend

Endless ranks reduces the deployment cost, not the reinforcement cost. So you only get a discount when deploying a full group.

On ‎20‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 2:32 PM, ineversmile1789 said:

The start of the Hoth campaign favors the rebels. The first mission is pretty easy for them, and it leads towhite noise, which is really hard on the imperial. The rebels have to do a few mistakes for you to win white noise, including letting officers live.

So, I've just started Hoth with my group.

I'm the imperial and it's everyone's first play of Hoth.

(I've completed Core & Twin Shadows twice as Imp, Bespin Gambit once as player)
(They've completed core and Twin Shadows once)

First mission was fairly comfortable Imperial Win.

They're using Fenn, Gideon, Gaarkhan & Verena.

I'm using Nemesis with BT-1 and Bossk.

Honestly, unless the Rebels are aware for the secret events I don't see how this one is ever easy for them?

46 minutes ago, Majushi said:

So, I've just started Hoth with my group.

I'm the imperial and it's everyone's first play of Hoth.

(I've completed Core & Twin Shadows twice as Imp, Bespin Gambit once as player)
(They've completed core and Twin Shadows once)

First mission was fairly comfortable Imperial Win.

They're using Fenn, Gideon, Gaarkhan & Verena.

I'm using Nemesis with BT-1 and Bossk.

Honestly, unless the Rebels are aware for the secret events I don't see how this one is ever easy for them?

I've seen that mission go both ways.

My friends and I just did a 5 mission run this weekend on hoth. I'm using the Black ops decks and have won the two story missions. The first mission was difficult for them because they believed that mak would make for a good tank apparently. they also didn't get a single dodge on their three white dice characters. Dengar was able to load one of them with all three conditions.

2 hours ago, Deadwolf said:

I've seen that mission go both ways.

Down to the dice rolls then, do you think?

1 hour ago, Majushi said:

Down to the dice rolls then, do you think?

That mission is all about controlling the board and if the rebels can efficiently do so, they win. But to do that, relies on several factors including luck (especially on the terminals), how good your heroes are in the early game, as well as party tactics (especially how they use the terminals).

5 hours ago, Deadwolf said:

I've seen that mission go both ways.

My group is not that different from @Majushi We've played through the core and TS. The guy who is the Imp now in Hoth was also the Imp for the core. And while the Rebels won the campaign, it was close throughout.

Our Rebel team is Jyn, Loku, MHD-19 and Verena (we're playing each campaign with as much as possible from that campaign). The Imp is playing Precision Training. The first RtH mission was a Rebel Victory without question. Loku is the only hero who got wounded when

Every round after round 3 we were able to clear the board. I thought the Imp played well, there just didn't seem to be enough threat to go around. Die rolling was good for both sides (I had 2 dodges nullified by "Versatile Weaponry"), so that wasn't much of a factor.

6 hours ago, a1bert said:

Endless Ranks only gives -1 threat discount for deploying groups. It does not count for reinforcing figures.

Endless Rank s used to be much worse than other class cards of Military Might (like Sustained Fire , Assault Armor , and Combat Veterans ). With more expansions coming with more groups with the trooper trait - especially Jet Troopers - Endless Ranks has become better though.

I still think that Sustained Fire is the best card.

Ah. I see that my friend has played it wrong and allowed for 1 point reinforcements. Thanks!

7 hours ago, GilmoreDK said:

Ah. I see that my friend has played it wrong and allowed for 1 point reinforcements. Thanks!

I did too back when I first used it (a Twin Shadows Campaign). Sometimes I wonder if that was what made the finale so one sided, but I really wasn't relying heavily on Troopers in that mission (Biv had his reward), so probably not.

I'd say none of the Core decks are particularly weak, but MM certainly is the most straight forward. It's just easy for beginner Rebels to warp their head around when you compare it to Subversive Tactics, and easy for a beginner Imp to wrap his or her head around when compared to Technological Superiority.