An ISD is more akin to a fat, juicy bag of points ripe for the taking, while not so able to chase down scattering, dodging flotillas, Destraa. In my opinion, of course, and this just absolutely annoys me. I love my ISD, and seeing it relegated in favor of a bunch of small ships is infuriating. But alas, tis' the way the dice are rolling. One must adapt and overcome, or die.

Are you using H9s and/or Intel Officer with it? If not, then I'm afraid that's on you for not adapting to the regular inclusion of flotillas nowadays.

I think Vader is a worthwhile consideration in flotilla hunting as well. It's not a guarantee, but he makes the odds pretty damned good. A naked Arquitens concentrating fire is actually going to be a legitimate threat to flotillas with Vader. If you don't believe me, go pick up 4 red dice. If you don't get an accuracy the first time, pick up anything that isn't a double damage and roll them again. You'll be amazed how often that accuracy shows up. The same goes for Raiders and the ISD. Those accuracies aren't guaranteed, but they're pretty likely.

I think so as well. I've been considering putting together a Vader fleet with Raiders and ISDs (his two favorite ships as of wave 4) but haven't gotten around to it quite yet. It does seem to have a lot more potential for getting those Accuracy results you're looking for without having to use H9s or the like.

An ISDMSU would be absolutely deadly against any flotilla-heavy fleet because you'll be able to concentrate your Raider's fire on the flotillas. With the fighters being unable to do their job properly, you're free to pick up the rest of the enemy capital ships. No to mention that an ISD2 with Raiders has a pretty nice AA coverage on its own so it may even be viable against a bomber-heavy list - assuming it is played right of course.

I came up against a player rocking the ISDMSU over the Weekend...

Relentless ISD-1

Tooled GSD-II Demolisher
Raider - Instigator, Kallos and all the Tools (APT/OE)

Another Raider, like above, sans the Uniques.

And a Gozanti with Ozzel.

I was playing a Bomber Heavy Fleet, too... 6 Ys, 2Xs and a Jan... I was ready to go...

I didn't touch his ISD. There was no point trying to kill it at any stage... My Fighters and Bombers were quickly shredded after being locked down by Inst and then Demo-GSD-II-AA'd into dust...

In the End....

... I did win the game.

The Saving Grace of my Fleet?

I'm Running Two Large Ships that take small chunks of beatings and then Repair it Off....

EV'RY DAY I'M RE-PAIR-IN'!

That ISDMSU idea fits with how I see large ships being used: as the core of a battle group. I'd love to see more titles or upgrades with functionality like "home one" - upgrading other ships in the group.

I came up against a player rocking the ISDMSU over the Weekend...

Relentless ISD-1

Tooled GSD-II Demolisher

Raider - Instigator, Kallos and all the Tools (APT/OE)

Another Raider, like above, sans the Uniques.

And a Gozanti with Ozzel.

I was playing a Bomber Heavy Fleet, too... 6 Ys, 2Xs and a Jan... I was ready to go...

I didn't touch his ISD. There was no point trying to kill it at any stage... My Fighters and Bombers were quickly shredded after being locked down by Inst and then Demo-GSD-II-AA'd into dust...

In the End....

... I did win the game.

The Saving Grace of my Fleet?

I'm Running Two Large Ships that take small chunks of beatings and then Repair it Off....

EV'RY DAY I'M RE-PAIR-IN'!

Are you running a couple of Repair Crew transports with that? I'm determined to make a twin Lib list work but am tweaking to see if I need a repair crew with them.

I came up against a player rocking the ISDMSU over the Weekend...

Relentless ISD-1

Tooled GSD-II Demolisher

Raider - Instigator, Kallos and all the Tools (APT/OE)

Another Raider, like above, sans the Uniques.

And a Gozanti with Ozzel.

I was playing a Bomber Heavy Fleet, too... 6 Ys, 2Xs and a Jan... I was ready to go...

I didn't touch his ISD. There was no point trying to kill it at any stage... My Fighters and Bombers were quickly shredded after being locked down by Inst and then Demo-GSD-II-AA'd into dust...

In the End....

... I did win the game.

The Saving Grace of my Fleet?

I'm Running Two Large Ships that take small chunks of beatings and then Repair it Off....

EV'RY DAY I'M RE-PAIR-IN'!

Are you running a couple of Repair Crew transports with that? I'm determined to make a twin Lib list work but am tweaking to see if I need a repair crew with them.

Nope.

That would be "intelligent"

I'm way off the Reservation.

I'm running Garm.

I came up against a player rocking the ISDMSU over the Weekend...

Relentless ISD-1

Tooled GSD-II Demolisher

Raider - Instigator, Kallos and all the Tools (APT/OE)

Another Raider, like above, sans the Uniques.

And a Gozanti with Ozzel.

I was playing a Bomber Heavy Fleet, too... 6 Ys, 2Xs and a Jan... I was ready to go...

I didn't touch his ISD. There was no point trying to kill it at any stage... My Fighters and Bombers were quickly shredded after being locked down by Inst and then Demo-GSD-II-AA'd into dust...

In the End....

... I did win the game.

The Saving Grace of my Fleet?

I'm Running Two Large Ships that take small chunks of beatings and then Repair it Off....

EV'RY DAY I'M RE-PAIR-IN'!

Are you running a couple of Repair Crew transports with that? I'm determined to make a twin Lib list work but am tweaking to see if I need a repair crew with them.

Nope.

That would be "intelligent"

I'm way off the Reservation.

I'm running Garm.

My first iteration of the list had Garm with lots of token shenanigan upgrades. Switched out to Dodonna to free up some points first time on the table. I've not had a chance to road test the Garm list yet but I'm not convinced that it isn't a winner. No Flotilla in the list at all then?

I came up against a player rocking the ISDMSU over the Weekend...

Relentless ISD-1

Tooled GSD-II Demolisher

Raider - Instigator, Kallos and all the Tools (APT/OE)

Another Raider, like above, sans the Uniques.

And a Gozanti with Ozzel.

I was playing a Bomber Heavy Fleet, too... 6 Ys, 2Xs and a Jan... I was ready to go...

I didn't touch his ISD. There was no point trying to kill it at any stage... My Fighters and Bombers were quickly shredded after being locked down by Inst and then Demo-GSD-II-AA'd into dust...

In the End....

... I did win the game.

The Saving Grace of my Fleet?

I'm Running Two Large Ships that take small chunks of beatings and then Repair it Off....

EV'RY DAY I'M RE-PAIR-IN'!

Are you running a couple of Repair Crew transports with that? I'm determined to make a twin Lib list work but am tweaking to see if I need a repair crew with them.

Nope.

That would be "intelligent"

I'm way off the Reservation.

I'm running Garm.

My first iteration of the list had Garm with lots of token shenanigan upgrades. Switched out to Dodonna to free up some points first time on the table. I've not had a chance to road test the Garm list yet but I'm not convinced that it isn't a winner. No Flotilla in the list at all then?

Two

Jamming and bomber

[ REBEL FLEET (400 points)

1 • MC80 Star Cruiser - Fire-Control Team - Ion Cannon Batteries - XI7 Turbolasers (109)

2 • MC80 Command Cruiser - Electronic Countermeasures (113)

3 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Jamming Field - Bright Hope (22)

4 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Garm Bel Iblis - Bomber Command Center (51)

5 • Y-wing Squadron (10)

6 • Y-wing Squadron (10)

7 • Y-wing Squadron (10)

8 • Y-wing Squadron (10)

9 • Y-wing Squadron (10)

10 • Y-wing Squadron (10)

11 • X-wing Squadron (13)

12 • X-wing Squadron (13)

13 • Jan Ors Moldy Crow (19)

14 • Objectives - Most Wanted - Fire Lanes - Superior Positions (0)

Top table

Went down to a virtual mirror - his lib being a battle, and his mc80 being an assault... With As instead of Ys

I came up against a player rocking the ISDMSU over the Weekend...

Relentless ISD-1

Tooled GSD-II Demolisher

Raider - Instigator, Kallos and all the Tools (APT/OE)

Another Raider, like above, sans the Uniques.

And a Gozanti with Ozzel.

I was playing a Bomber Heavy Fleet, too... 6 Ys, 2Xs and a Jan... I was ready to go...

I didn't touch his ISD. There was no point trying to kill it at any stage... My Fighters and Bombers were quickly shredded after being locked down by Inst and then Demo-GSD-II-AA'd into dust...

In the End....

... I did win the game.

The Saving Grace of my Fleet?

I'm Running Two Large Ships that take small chunks of beatings and then Repair it Off....

EV'RY DAY I'M RE-PAIR-IN'!

Are you running a couple of Repair Crew transports with that? I'm determined to make a twin Lib list work but am tweaking to see if I need a repair crew with them.

Nope.

That would be "intelligent"

I'm way off the Reservation.

I'm running Garm.

My first iteration of the list had Garm with lots of token shenanigan upgrades. Switched out to Dodonna to free up some points first time on the table. I've not had a chance to road test the Garm list yet but I'm not convinced that it isn't a winner. No Flotilla in the list at all then?

Two

Jamming and bomber

[ REBEL FLEET (400 points)

1 • MC80 Star Cruiser - Fire-Control Team - Ion Cannon Batteries - XI7 Turbolasers (109)

2 • MC80 Command Cruiser - Electronic Countermeasures (113)

3 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Jamming Field - Bright Hope (22)

4 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Garm Bel Iblis - Bomber Command Center (51)

5 • Y-wing Squadron (10)

6 • Y-wing Squadron (10)

7 • Y-wing Squadron (10)

8 • Y-wing Squadron (10)

9 • Y-wing Squadron (10)

10 • Y-wing Squadron (10)

11 • X-wing Squadron (13)

12 • X-wing Squadron (13)

13 • Jan Ors Moldy Crow (19)

14 • Objectives - Most Wanted - Fire Lanes - Superior Positions (0)

Top table

Went down to a virtual mirror - his lib being a battle, and his mc80 being an assault... With As instead of Ys

Ah, yes. I saw you posting about that match earlier. It's a really interesting list; proper hammer and anvil with those two. I suppose that with that set of objectives, you don't really need a bid as all yours a pretty good for you.

Two tricked out Libs doesn't leave much room for squads or extra flotillas. All this discussion about the disadvantages of large ships makes me even more determined to flog this horse until it's dead or until morale improves.

An ISDMSU would be absolutely deadly against any flotilla-heavy fleet because you'll be able to concentrate your Raider's fire on the flotillas. With the fighters being unable to do their job properly, you're free to pick up the rest of the enemy capital ships. No to mention that an ISD2 with Raiders has a pretty nice AA coverage on its own so it may even be viable against a bomber-heavy list - assuming it is played right of course.

Well.. that reminds me of my Worlds fleet. 2 ISDs (+MSU) with Intel officers to pick up flotillas at long range (4 reds). I can say that as far as picking up flotillas went, the idea did work out.

The thing about large ships like the MC80 & ISD are that, yes, you get very few activations; HOWEVER, when you do activate you throw most of your attack dice of your entire fleet between activating the squadrons and your main arcs... most "not large" ships cannot repel firepower of that magnitude (sorry couldn't resist) and then they die and the battle of attrition begins... hopefully you can stop them from killing your ISD/MC now that their firepower is less. It just comes at the cost of having trouble setting it up... and that is a big problem, I will admit.

Use Objectives, terrain, fear of your main arc for area denial to control their movement, and just plain old good guessing to make it happen... or just lose. That's cool too.

The whole idea of using large ships with IO to kill flotillas seems like bringing sledge hammer to put in a nail. I assume you are just taking shots at flotillas when you get them and not prioritizing them, but doesn't seem the most cost efficient option available. Unless you have GT doing work for you. And you still need to take 2 shots to kill the flotilla is it can scatter.

Any other thoughts on this? I personally think Glad/MC30 + APT is the best way to kill flotillas, aside from using bombers.

If I'm taking a Glad/MC30 + APT, why am I using it to kill Flotillas? I should be using it to Trade-up Points in enemy Large ships that are under pressure from my other ships.... I mean, sure, on that Rare Double-Arc where I just happen to have an Enemy Flot on the other side, sure...

And Around We Go! Merry Old Round!

The whole idea of using large ships with IO to kill flotillas seems like bringing sledge hammer to put in a nail. I assume you are just taking shots at flotillas when you get them and not prioritizing them, but doesn't seem the most cost efficient option available. Unless you have GT doing work for you. And you still need to take 2 shots to kill the flotilla is it can scatter.

The answer is flexibility (and Gunnery teams, of course) - having a different specialized antiflotilla tool will cost more points - and big ship builds are usually struggling there.

However, prioritizing flotillas is sometimes a right thing to do (for example, removing 2 BCCs early in the game can make all the difference between winning or losing)

You spend around 80 points to kill a flotilla compared to 130-140. And the Glad/MC30 can also kill normal ships and are pretty easy to set up a shot on a flotilla since they are small and move quickly.

If I'm taking a Glad/MC30 + APT, why am I using it to kill Flotillas? I should be using it to Trade-up Points in enemy Large ships that are under pressure from my other ships.... I mean, sure, on that Rare Double-Arc where I just happen to have an Enemy Flot on the other side, sure...

And Around We Go! Merry Old Round!

The H9 MC30 is actually extremely efficient at popping flotillas. As support ships, they tend to be relatively close to whatever you're after anyway; with OE and APT, you have very good chance of pushing out that 4 damage you need to pop them under the one guaranteed accuracy. It gives you the flexibility to decide on the spot if it's more important to you to pop the flotilla or push more damage onto your primary target with a double arc. You also have a fair Chance of pushing out 3 damage out the front to finish one with a ram if you find yourself in that situation.

I came up against a player rocking the ISDMSU over the Weekend...

Relentless ISD-1

Tooled GSD-II Demolisher

Raider - Instigator, Kallos and all the Tools (APT/OE)

Another Raider, like above, sans the Uniques.

And a Gozanti with Ozzel.

I was playing a Bomber Heavy Fleet, too... 6 Ys, 2Xs and a Jan... I was ready to go...

I didn't touch his ISD. There was no point trying to kill it at any stage... My Fighters and Bombers were quickly shredded after being locked down by Inst and then Demo-GSD-II-AA'd into dust...

In the End....

... I did win the game.

The Saving Grace of my Fleet?

I'm Running Two Large Ships that take small chunks of beatings and then Repair it Off....

EV'RY DAY I'M RE-PAIR-IN'!

That was me. The Fleet was just a throw together to see if it could actually hang in the current meta.

I went 5-6 5-6 (lost by 7 points) 8-3 to tie for second with 18. the two 5-6s were to rebel squad heavy list where I picked superior positions. both games I killed over 250 in points but gave up 150+ back shot tokens. Last game I played an imperial with 3 ships and lots of wings and got both his ISD 2 and Demo one before he could kill my ISD I made him play contested outpost. Every game I lost Demo 2 and Kallus's raider. I had never played full ship fleets before so this was an interesting day. full list below.

Redo

Faction: Galactic Empire

Points: 390/400

Commander: Admiral Ozzel

Assault Objective: Most Wanted

Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault

Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)

- Relentless ( 3 points)

- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)

- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)

- High-Capacity Ion Turbines ( 8 points)

= 139 total ship cost

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)

- Demolisher ( 10 points)

- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

= 90 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

- Instigator ( 4 points)

- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)

= 60 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

- Admiral Montferrat ( 5 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

= 58 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)

- Admiral Ozzel ( 20 points)

= 43 total ship cost

Card view link

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

AND lets be honest with the First game...

ON DESTRUCTION, I LOST THAT GAME BY A GOOD 120 POINTS

On that Front, you COMPLETELY outplayed me, locked down Bombers, shredded things. EVERYTHING.

I just stole 11 Superior Positions Tokens and did my best to Zoidberg Away the rest of the time.... Even with a Liberty with a Thrust Control Malfunction from an Asteroid Hit

You spend around 80 points to kill a flotilla compared to 130-140. And the Glad/MC30 can also kill normal ships and are pretty easy to set up a shot on a flotilla since they are small and move quickly.

As far as glad 2's being efficient flotilla hunters I don't think it can be measured simply in points. Losing BCC early is not only bad but also losing an activation and a way of activating your Squadrons makes it hurt even more. Squadrons that aren't be commanded and that can't keep up with ships are basically wasted points. And if you were relying on your flotilla to put your squads in place for yavaris than losing that flotilla even further complicates things.

I haven't tried it since I got my Gozanti, but my go-to ISD+MSU is Imperial-1 plus two Raiders and fighters to fill in points. Either Raider is a pretty good flotilla hunter, and the Imperial can double as a battleship and a carrier. The flexibility of the build is that while the formation is pretty obvious and standard, the Imperial is a sledgehammer and can handle most tasks given to it with relative ease through virtue of sheer [F]orce of will (and turbolasers, lots of those). The flexibility comes in equipping the ships, Raiders especially, so they can handle any task, and remembering to build a coherent plan. If the squadron wing is optimized for space superiority, focus on ship killing, and vice versa. I'm still convinced the weak link in most large ship lists, particularly ones with more than one large, is a careful plan that you stick to for the whole battle. It's a trick that still escapes me on occasion, but if the primary problem is that large ship lists are outflown, that sounds like an admiral error, not a starship one.

This week I plan on trying to use an ISD to activate 4-5bombers before shooting the ship. Typically I either strictly use my ships as carriers or as battle ships. So trying to use them as leading right before a big attack could prove interesting.

I typically run a combo ISD as you are planning. If you can throw on a flight commander it is extra fun. Drain a hull section of shields with the main arc first, then pepper the soft underbelly with many single crits & effects.

I took an ISD-I super carrier to a regional. It had Wulff, Flight Controllers, Boosted Comms, Expanded Hangar Bay, and H9 Turbolasers. Finished second with 25 points. It took a beating but never went down.

Strangely though, all the Stormtroopers aboard the ship were wearing this odd-looking armour:

Come here, flotillas!

Large ships are viable. You guys are overreacting.

This week I plan on trying to use an ISD to activate 4-5bombers before shooting the ship. Typically I either strictly use my ships as carriers or as battle ships. So trying to use them as leading right before a big attack could prove interesting.

This works really well with Avenger. Either spend no tokens on defending from those squadrons, or don't plan on using them against the ISD shot.