Norra. While she seems like she will live, once Biggs is dead, she crumples like a wet noodle. 5 dice might be nice that one round, but good luck getting it again with full modes.

Eh, without big spike damage, regen is never a paper tiger.

I think Rey is a paper tiger, or at least when I've flown her. I'm not ready to give up on it yet, but man ... It's a shame about Rey.

Rey is a beast. Love that woman. I like her more with Gunner or Luke instead of KJ tho. Just tears up the board! Gotta find a good wingman for her though... gonna try Norra next week I think. Poe has been underwhelming.

I would disagree with the Fenn talk. Two different Fenn lists made the cut at charlotte. Seems like it's doing work.

You mean the Durham regional? I ran Fenn as well, ended 3-3 with 794 mov. If I had made one less mistake in two different matches to get the fourth win I would have been 10th or 11th and made the cut as well. Great opponents, I need to get better.

Fenn is pretty good but he can go down easily if your not careful.

Dengaroo

Not because it's bad, but because it's not that good. Worlds meta should have closed him out but they messed up.

You realize Dengaroo was like one of the most common lists there. While Nand pulled out a win, the meta did knock out like 40 other Dengaroo lists. Was it simply due to Nand's match-ups? Was it due to his skill in flying the list? Probably some combination of the two.

Dengaroo

Not because it's bad, but because it's not that good. Worlds meta should have closed him out but they messed up.

You realize Dengaroo was like one of the most common lists there. While Nand pulled out a win, the meta did knock out like 40 other Dengaroo lists. Was it simply due to Nand's match-ups? Was it due to his skill in flying the list? Probably some combination of the two.

Probably also some element of luck and some element of coping with the demands of the tourney format as well.

Norra. While she seems like she will live, once Biggs is dead, she crumples like a wet noodle. 5 dice might be nice that one round, but good luck getting it again with full modes.

If this would true, Norra (or any ARC) would have to be feared by the general meta. But in competitive play, no one appears scared of the ARC, and their total lack of showing at Worlds seems to confirm this. Some people like FGD are trying to turn ARCs into Paper Tigers, but they're not even at that stage yet. I guess that makes them like a paper rabbit?

The problem with the ARC is the same problem facing the vast majority of Rebel ships: they don't hit hard enough for their cost in the modern era of hyper defense.

The problem with the ARC is the same problem facing the vast majority of Rebel ships: they don't hit hard enough for their cost in the modern era of hyper defense.

But Norra is the one that hits like a truck, with pretty well-modified 4/5 dice attacks.

The problem with the ARC is the same problem facing the vast majority of Rebel ships: they don't hit hard enough for their cost in the modern era of hyper defense.

But Norra is the one that hits like a truck, with pretty well-modified 4/5 dice attacks.

eh, I've yet to lose to x7s with ARCs and they're bloody everywhere over here

the trick is just to use the 2 astromechs that matter, ie r3-a2 and r2-d2, with gunner on braylen and tailgunner on norra. Once the stress is through to prevent focus stacking, you're solid whether or not they have an evade token. Once the late game hits, Norra basically cannot die and you will win just on points

locals don't play a lot of dengaroo (they find it ungodly boring), but the few times I ran into him tailgunner just turned him into a complete joke. Don't even need to bother with manny

no idea why they havn't taken off. People I guess have their own preferences, and it doesn't seem to involve Biggs (in which case, you go Miranda)

the ARC's only real weakness, other than poor play from people who don't understand how to use them, is they're ******* slow. That, in combination of 1 agi, is why you use Biggs

still makes Dash a right pain in the ass

in short, hyper defenses don't mean diddly to ARCs. Their bad match-up is fast large base ships that can boost and roll, so mostly just Dash

I suppose.

Just curious they haven't made any meta splash yet if they're so good.

idk

not everyone can love em like I do

hell, the only reason I ever picked them up was because the models are simply the best in the entire game. I had no idea they'd be this good, or any good at all

2-die primaries are pretty worthless at the cost, after all, but with the right astromechs and crew the ship becomes far more than the sum of its parts

but it is a ship that looks absolutely, putridly useless without some table time

for worlds in particular, I don't recall seeing that much Biggs. That, more than anything, is why you probably don't see a lot of ARCs. As great as Norra is, Miranda is simply far safer without that buffer to hide behind

The only tournament I'm aware of ARCs doing well in over in the UK was one they won - two annoying as **** regenerating ARCs with support from Biggs. They trundled up and down the board like a pair of old ladies in the supermarket, but with huge action economy and solid regen they simply ground folk down.

Probably got a few ones through their opponent's simply dying of old age while thy waited for the ARCs to finish turning around.

The problem with the ARC is the same problem facing the vast majority of Rebel ships: they don't hit hard enough for their cost in the modern era of hyper defense.

But Norra is the one that hits like a truck, with pretty well-modified 4/5 dice attacks.

eh, I've yet to lose to x7s with ARCs and they're bloody everywhere over here

...

Yeah, I think x7's are Paper Tigers. I have yet to lose to x7's at all with anything. Nor to /D's. I suspect it is probably just because the types of lists that I tend to fly are the same ones that are good counters to Defenders. :shrug: They just don't seem as strong to me as everyone makes them out to be.

I absolutely agree with everything you said about ARCs — I love them, the models are gorgeous, they are fun to fly, they can hit hard, and they fold without Biggs to protect them.

Well x7s are no deadeye scout

They dont stand out in that same stupidly obvious way

But they ARE the standard against which you gotta measure the competitive viability of your list

Idk i feel their reputation as a competitive list is more than well deserved, but they cant be paper tigers because theyre not scary the way high damage burst is scary. Theyre the standard

Maybe I'm missing the wording of the OP; I do quite often....but come on, I think Rey does great and is very useful in the Falcon, Dengaroo is at the top of the power curve, and Fenn is a dodgy beast akin and almost as dodgy and hit a bit harder Soontir.

When I think "Paper Tiger" I think of a ship that should be a brutal opponent by appearance, name and assumed abilities. With these outward analysis listed, without knowing what is under its skin (or paper that looks fierce), there is but one Paper Tiger:

I think it fell down because it was designed by Homer Simpson.

I would disagree with the Fenn talk. Two different Fenn lists made the cut at charlotte. Seems like it's doing work.

You mean the Durham regional? I ran Fenn as well, ended 3-3 with 794 mov. If I had made one less mistake in two different matches to get the fourth win I would have been 10th or 11th and made the cut as well. Great opponents, I need to get better.

Fenn is pretty good but he can go down easily if your not careful.

I DID mean Durham, Thank you.

My buddy Sam top 8'ed with Fenn and terry.

I think Rey is a paper tiger, or at least when I've flown her. I'm not ready to give up on it yet, but man ... It's a shame about Rey.

With Rey I think you need to adjust your expectations. We're used to Falcons that are about being strong in the endgame - Evade/3PO etc - but weak in the early game when there's a lot of ships and red dice flying about. Rey is the Falcon that is relatively weak in endgame but better in the early game if she can keep the enemy in arc.

She needs a partner who is prepped for endgame and Rey will get them there, rather than a partner that's there to just get the Falcon into endgame so it can clean up.

I broadly agree, though, I think she's an alternative to existing Falcons but not necessarily an upgrade.

do you think she makes twin falcon viable agen?

also fenn is a glass cannon not a paper tiger, when flown right he deals a ton of damage, scares the enemy, draws their fire and only then dies.

ive managed to strip half hp off a partyboat in one shot and after that got the rest of my ships in position while my opponent chased fenn

Paper Tiger is more something that people are afraid of, but it just turns out to be something non-threatening. So...villagers getting scared that there is a tiger right out there, but someone brave goes to find out it's a poster of one. That kind of a thing.

Got cha man, like the Punisher.

BTW, Episode 28 I just finished (had to two-part it) and it was very well done. That Upsilon Shuttle is one complicated expansion set. I now feel much more intelligent (where I start intelligence-wise on matters is quite the low bar). Thanks to you and the crew!!

I would disagree with the Fenn talk. Two different Fenn lists made the cut at charlotte. Seems like it's doing work.

You mean the Durham regional? I ran Fenn as well, ended 3-3 with 794 mov. If I had made one less mistake in two different matches to get the fourth win I would have been 10th or 11th and made the cut as well. Great opponents, I need to get better.

Fenn is pretty good but he can go down easily if your not careful.

I DID mean Durham, Thank you.

My buddy Sam top 8'ed with Fenn and terry.

I spoke with two other guys running Fenn and OT before round one, one I knew the other I didn't, and we talked shop about match ups a bit. I wonder if one was you buddy.

Seems a bit hyperbolic to call tournament winning lists paper tigers (ie a complete non-threat). If you at all have to think about a ship or list while building your own list, I'd say that disqualifies it as a paper tiger.

But it sure is cool to say paper tiger.

I think Rey is a paper tiger, or at least when I've flown her. I'm not ready to give up on it yet, but man ... It's a shame about Rey.

With Rey I think you need to adjust your expectations. We're used to Falcons that are about being strong in the endgame - Evade/3PO etc - but weak in the early game when there's a lot of ships and red dice flying about. Rey is the Falcon that is relatively weak in endgame but better in the early game if she can keep the enemy in arc.

She needs a partner who is prepped for endgame and Rey will get them there, rather than a partner that's there to just get the Falcon into endgame so it can clean up.

I broadly agree, though, I think she's an alternative to existing Falcons but not necessarily an upgrade.

I think Miranda would be best suited for that roll... I know, TLTs and Regen... But also Norra could be useful there as well. Maybe Poe or Corran, but small ships in the end game either need allot of health or allot of regen, and there's only so much you can do with either the T-70 or E-wing.

Edit: Can you even fit a proper Corran in if your running the popular 56 point Rey (New title, Finn, Kanan, ???)

From recent experience Omega Leader when taken as part of a squad isn't as scary as a lot of people think. In a 1v1 yer she/he will mess you up big style but with multiple people in play it loses teeth a little.

It's a powerful pilot but when your cards are on the table its still a Tie.

From recent experience Omega Leader when taken as part of a squad isn't as scary as a lot of people think. In a 1v1 yer she/he will mess you up big style but with multiple people in play it loses teeth a little.

It's a powerful pilot but when your cards are on the table its still a Tie.

I mean, he's 26 points

there's only so much you can expect, and he more than delivers

From recent experience Omega Leader when taken as part of a squad isn't as scary as a lot of people think. In a 1v1 yer she/he will mess you up big style but with multiple people in play it loses teeth a little.

It's a powerful pilot but when your cards are on the table its still a Tie.

I mean, he's 26 points

there's only so much you can expect, and he more than delivers

every time i look at what you get for 26 points it feels like cheating

From recent experience Omega Leader when taken as part of a squad isn't as scary as a lot of people think. In a 1v1 yer she/he will mess you up big style but with multiple people in play it loses teeth a little.

It's a powerful pilot but when your cards are on the table its still a Tie.

I mean, he's 26 points

there's only so much you can expect, and he more than delivers

every time i look at what you get for 26 points it feels like cheating

cheating? no sir

leading

From recent experience Omega Leader when taken as part of a squad isn't as scary as a lot of people think. In a 1v1 yer she/he will mess you up big style but with multiple people in play it loses teeth a little.

It's a powerful pilot but when your cards are on the table its still a Tie.

I mean, he's 26 points

there's only so much you can expect, and he more than delivers