Hi

First post on this forum.

Assume that two (small) ships are positioned so they touch each other at their corner while oriented 90 degree relative to each other as illustrated in the figure below(The mid lines indecating the front facing).

If one of the ships tries to perform a speed-one or speed-two turn in the direction of the other ship, is it a correct assumption that this will result in an immediate bump, i.e. that the ship will not move?

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Using a 2 turn, the first ship to move should end up going forward and bumping about halfway between the pegs on the other ship. It well angle in slightly. The first ship to move will still go forward slightly when using a 1 turn but will bump before it gets to the nearest peg.

How will it go forward? The front starts moving in as soon as it moves forward, and it will overlap.

In theories yes... because the back peg have to stay aligned with a straight template that would be added before the Turn.

But in practice, most people would move the ship a bit. Why, because they forget you have to keep the back of the ship aligned. You don't have to be perfect 90 degree. As soon as they touch each other on the corner, it will be hard to find the perfect spot to move the ship a bit. They would need to be near parallel for the turn to work.

How will it go forward? The front starts moving in as soon as it moves forward, and it will overlap.

If you add a straight template before your turn template and follow the template with your rear peg while keeping the front pegs over the template in front of it you should find that the ship moves forward a bit before bumping.

The ships will still bump and end up in a fortress but the arcs won't have the same coverage overlap that you had when you set it up.

Actually, I didn't bother to even check at first but the ship looks like it will clear the other completely using a 2 turn.

How will it go forward? The front starts moving in as soon as it moves forward, and it will overlap.

If you add a straight template before your turn template and follow the template with your rear peg while keeping the front pegs over the template in front of it you should find that the ship moves forward a bit before bumping.

The ships will still bump and end up in a fortress but the arcs won't have the same coverage overlap that you had when you set it up.

Actually, I didn't bother to even check at first but the ship looks like it will clear the other completely using a 2 turn.

I wish I was at home where my stuff is so I could try this but I am thinking that using small base ships as stated in the original post, that a 2 speed turn will in fact clear the other ship. But without the bases and templates to actually try it I can't be sure.

How will it go forward? The front starts moving in as soon as it moves forward, and it will overlap.

If you add a straight template before your turn template and follow the template with your rear peg while keeping the front pegs over the template in front of it you should find that the ship moves forward a bit before bumping.

The ships will still bump and end up in a fortress but the arcs won't have the same coverage overlap that you had when you set it up.

Actually, I didn't bother to even check at first but the ship looks like it will clear the other completely using a 2 turn.

I wish I was at home where my stuff is so I could try this but I am thinking that using small base ships as stated in the original post, that a 2 speed turn will in fact clear the other ship. But without the bases and templates to actually try it I can't be sure.

Yeah, it completely clears. I've got my templates and ships out. I figured the question wouldn't have been asked if the move cleared so I was just focusing on where along the template the bases would first touch.

A 1 turn does bump and the first ship to activate moves forward just slightly. So slightly that you could almost just leave it where it is because you're likely bump stuff around more than it moves if you try to get it right.

If the turn template is a quarter circle, there's no distance, however small, you can move the front of the ship forwards without it also needing to go a bit sideways.

If the turn template is a quarter circle, there's no distance, however small, you can move the front of the ship forwards without it also needing to go a bit sideways.

Assuming that there is something at the end of the 2 turn template that would cause the maneuver to get blocked in the first place it definitely looks like there is room to move forward before bumping. When a laying a 2 straight template in front of a 2 turn template the ship slides forward a bit before bumping. How far it goes depends on how close to a 90 degree angle you are. Most of time I bump the nubs but if I've got the ships a bit obtuse I've cleared the first nub.

By the time my ship starts changing facing at all I can no longer see the #2 on my template. I can't seem to find my cardboard 2 turn template but I see the same results from 2 different acrylic templates (made by different companies).

So your templates aren't circular, then?

The amount of movement is very steeply biased towards the middle, to be fair. It'll be a parabolic curve. So it will only move fractionally for the first few mm of movement.

Do you mean the 45 degree turn or the 90 degree turn

Whatever 45 dergree or 90 degree. A perfect circle have no straight section. As soon as you advance on the curve the ship start to move inward. There is no way to prevent that. In real life with the template not fitting perfectly and ship not exactly touching on the corner, and people being far from perfect, maybe you will want to move it. But in theories, it can't move.

Also, 2 turn will clear if everything is perfect, with the nudge you have a really small margin to make it work. I would not try it and do a 3 turn if I could.

On Huge ship, none clear.

This reminds me of situations at work where I meet with engineers who do some math on the whiteboard and explain that something works that is very clearly not working or otherwise we would not be having the meeting in the first place.

I'm reporting what I'm actually seeing with templates and ships. The first ship definitely moves before bumping when I do it. It doesn't move much but it does move enough that I would make you attempt to perform the maneuver instead of just revealing a dial and saying "Yeah, that bumps. I don't move at all because of geometry".

It may be because I'm not lining the ships up perfectly. It may be because my templates and bases aren't perfect. It doesn't matter. While actually playing this game (and not in something that simulates playing it, like Vassal) the alignment of ships and templates will not be perfect.

If you take time to read my post instead of writing wall of text, I say that real life and theories are not the same.

Even if a bottle of water is suppose to contain exactly 250 ml when full, in theories, in practice it will never be possible to fill it exactly.

And you will ask me to move it, and I could as much argue that I'm not able to move it, and never be satisfied by the placement.

Engineer could have forgot about a parameter. You may argue as much as you like, a circle will never have a straight part. You could also argue that in your experience, 2 + 2 does not always equal 4. But in theories it always do.

If you take time to read my post instead of writing wall of text, I say that real life and theories are not the same.

Even if a bottle of water is suppose to contain exactly 250 ml when full, in theories, in practice it will never be possible to fill it exactly.

And you will ask me to move it, and I could as much argue that I'm not able to move it, and never be satisfied by the placement.

Engineer could have forgot about a parameter. You may argue as much as you like, a circle will never have a straight part. You could also argue that in your experience, 2 + 2 does not always equal 4. But in theories it always do.

I've probably set this up at least a dozen times since seeing this thread. Not once has the first ship to move appeared to have bumped before moving forward at all. You can show me all the diagrams you'd like about how the ships have to bump the instant they start moving but I have seen that empirically to not be true.

If your plan is to set up a fortress in a game you should expect to go through the motions of measuring out your maneuver, seeing it bump and then resolving the bump every round. It doesn't matter that your ship didn't move at all the last time that you did it.

It is funny because I've done the set up and every time I tried to move it, I had to go inward and could not do it without bumping. We could argue Ad Nauseam like that. You will not change your mind and I will not.

If you take time to read my post instead of writing wall of text, I say that real life and theories are not the same.

My response wasn't aimed your post. It was in regards to Rawling's diagram.

I read your post and I was agreeing with it that when templates hit the table there might not be an immediate bump.

I never would have considered 8 sentences broken up into 3 chunks a "well of text". I chalk it up to being old and not understanding these **** kids and their twitting.

Hahahaha Will take it as a compliment as I'm 39 years old