Exactly. Sil 5 ships tend to have at least twice the firepower of Sin 4 ships, if not more, on top of greater shields covering more arcs and greater durability. Some of them are even as fast or faster than many Sil 4 ships and even some Sil 3 ships. Some of the smaller Sil 5 ships are also quite maneuverable for ships of their size having a maneuverability rating if -1 or better. There YZ-775 and YZ-900 are both such ships, and are often classified as sub-capital ships, halfway between a standard Freighter and a true Capital ship.

YZ-775 has a handling of -3 and a speed of 2, just one defense on all arcs and a really great armor of 4. And lots of guns + two hardpoints. I don't think that the YZ-Series is a good example for the point you are trying to make, while your point is still a valid and good one. They are more of really great gunships, smaller brethren to the CR series. Can't remember right now, did they gave the YZ-775 those oversized turbolasers in dangerous covenants?

The version of the YZ-775 in Dangerous Covenants isn't really all that accurate to the original as presented in Star Wars Gamer #2 . FFG got the passenger capacity all wrong, for starters, and the original was much faster and maneuverable. You're better off using the "unofficial" version from the blog I linked to above. That version has a Handling of -2 and a Speed of 3 with 3 Hard Points, standard Crew of 8, and a passenger capacity of 14, just like its original.

and, yes, they did give the YZ-775 the "oversized" Turbolasers in Dangerous Covenants.

A lot of ships aren't as "good" as their original versions. Nerfing everything more or less uniformly keeps game balance undoing the Nerf of your favorite ship screws with the overall game balance intended by the game designers.

For example almost no cap ships (sil 5 and above) have a speed over 3. Of the top of my head I can think of 2. A correllian gunship, and the ir-3f system patrol ship, those have 4. Heck most sil 4 freighters only have a speed of 3 standard. Bigger means slower generally, so a 2 for a sil 5 freighter is pretty standard and a 3 is fast. You're also probably forgetting that, perhaps depending on the edition of d20, the was an increasing with ship size piloting penalty, and that is baked into ship stats in ffg. Also a dedicated pilot will have talents that will remove setback dice from their pilot checks, so a good pilot can still make the ships do what they would like them to be able to do.

Also chase scenes use a separate mechanic with opposed pilot checks,

There’s just one Speed 5 ship that is Silhouette 4 — the HWK-1000. All other Speed 5 or Speed 6 ships are Sil 3.

Most of the Speed 4 ships are Sil 3, but there are a number of Sil 4 ships that are also Speed 4. For Sil 5 ships that are Speed 4, I have been able to find four — The “Renegade’s Blood” (a Consular Light Cruiser), the J-Type Diplomatic Barge, the IR-3F Light Frigate, and the DP-20 Gunship. That’s it. Note that the Sil 6 M30c Frigate is also Speed 4, and it’s the only Sil 6 ship to be that fast.

See http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/?order_by=-speed&flattened=true

There’s just one Speed 5 ship that is Silhouette 4 — the HWK-1000. All other Speed 5 or Speed 6 ships are Sil 3.Most of the Speed 4 ships are Sil 3, but there are a number of Sil 4 ships that are also Speed 4. For Sil 5 ships that are Speed 4, I have been able to find four — The “Renegade’s Blood” (a Consular Light Cruiser), the J-Type Diplomatic Barge, the IR-3F Light Frigate, and the DP-20 Gunship. That’s it. Note that the Sil 6 M30c Frigate is also Speed 4, and it’s the only Sil 6 ship to be that fast.See http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/?order_by=-speed&flattened=true

I'd say that the renegade's blood doesn't count because it got from the standard speed 3 to a speed 4 by having a high output ion turbine installed.

DP20 Corellian Gunship from Edge core is pretty fast too.

My favorite ship classes in Star Wars tend to be large sil 5s or small sil 6s so I vote sil 5

CR90 had in WEG 2D maneuverability, while the YZ.775 had 1D maneuverability, while the CR90 has -1 in FFG. So yeah -3 sound not too bad, especially as the VCX-100 comes with -3 itself.

No way. The citadel has speed 3 and handling -1 while the HWK-1000 comes with speed 5 and handling +1.

The high armor and tons of hull are nice, but in the end they just mean you die slower and not that you win in a dogfight with it.

The double twin ion turrets mean on top of it that you need weapon upgrades or some people might just negate all your damage with damage control actions …

… now if I would aim to raid imperial supply lines the ILH-KK Citadel-Class would be exactly the kind of freighter I am looking for, but if I would need a support craft for covert ops which might run into serious combat … HWKs all the way, both HWKs are incredible, the 290 as super small sil 3 transport with serious dogfight potential and the 1000 as super rare (Rarity 10), but incredible good space superior craft if customized right.

The citadel is just too slow for dogfighting imho.

But hey, my character is switching ships constantly, for each task there is the right ship, but it is not the same ship for all tasks.

True, the HWK is faster and more agile than the Citadel. However, note that I said best ALL AROUND ship, not best at everything ship. The Citadel is good and sometimes great at just about everything, but they are not the best at everything. HWKs have great customization, which can make them great fighters, but despite their 5 hard points they will always come up short in numerous other categories (cargo/personal room, hull tramua, system strain, repair costs, etc) when compared to other top tier ships. For example, the YTs have greater cargo room than both ships and numerous hard-points (depending on model), which makes them far superior cargo ships than the HWK.

I love the HWK-290. And at Sil3, it is the best ship in its class. But a HWK-1000 comes up short in too many category to be taken seriously at Sil4. Their are just too many other Sil4 ships that bring more to the table than just speed. It is like comparing a NASCAR car to a top tier crossover SUV. Sure, the NASCAR car will blow the doors off the SUV in a race, but the SUV can just do so much more than the NASCAR car ever could. Like, go over speed pumps.

Also, discrediting ion cannons is extremely short sighted. Especially considering that EVERY single ship in the game has less system strain than hull trauma. And the gap between the two is not even close. You want/need to take out an opposing ship fast, ion it. Plus, ion cannons gives options. Options that laser cannons do not give.

Also, the one thing that people seem to overlook is the Citadel's-larger-than-what-could-be-normally-mounted-on-Sil4-ship Heavy Tractor Beam. Sil4 ships can only mount a Medium Tractor Beam. The fact that the Citadel comes with a Heavy Tractor Beam, standard, is huge.

And finally, in a true fur-ball, (not some 1v1 BS), speed and handling mean jack and squat. And jack just got vaped and is now sucking vacuum. Space combat is a table top game of rocket tag. The only skill that matters is Initiative (cool or vigilance) & Gunnery. Gunnery vs Armor + Hull Trauma/System Strain. Even shields are joke. If one wants to survive in a fur-ball, have a Pilot Ace player character, a high initiative roll, a good Gunnery Skill, and ship that has more health than the other team.

And finally, in a true fur-ball, (not some 1v1 BS), speed and handling mean jack and squat. And jack just got vaped and is now sucking vacuum. Space combat is a table top game of rocket tag. The only skill that matters is Initiative (cool or vigilance) & Gunnery. Gunnery vs Armor + Hull Trauma/System Strain. Even shields are joke. If one wants to survive in a fur-ball, have a Pilot Ace player character, a high initiative roll, a good Gunnery Skill, and ship that has more health than the other team.

So, to sum up, to survive in a fight: Be better than the other guy.

And finally, in a true fur-ball, (not some 1v1 BS), speed and handling mean jack and squat. And jack just got vaped and is now sucking vacuum. Space combat is a table top game of rocket tag. The only skill that matters is Initiative (cool or vigilance) & Gunnery. Gunnery vs Armor + Hull Trauma/System Strain. Even shields are joke. If one wants to survive in a fur-ball, have a Pilot Ace player character, a high initiative roll, a good Gunnery Skill, and ship that has more health than the other team.

So, to sum up, to survive in a fight: Be better than the other guy.

In space combat, be fast than the other guy. Not better. Like I said, think rocket tag. If you go first, chances are, you win. Despite if the other guy is better.

Speaking of "larger-than-what-could-be-normally-mounted," fluff text also gives the Citadel two sets of docking clamps capable of carrying starfighters, meaning you can carry a two fighter escort without having to go up to Sil 5 and take a Retrofitted Hangar Bay. And unlike flying around in a Y-Wing squadron, you have actual hauling capacity and don't have to limit yourself to hyperdrive-capable starfighters.

Also, discrediting ion cannons is extremely short sighted. Especially considering that EVERY single ship in the game has less system strain than hull trauma. And the gap between the two is not even close. You want/need to take out an opposing ship fast, ion it. Plus, ion cannons gives options. Options that laser cannons do not give.

A single 5 man minion repair group regens about 3 to 8 strain per turn. Same for a single good mechanic on board. Do the math. ;-)

And that Ions give options I gave credit for. those options are good, but situational.