3 hours ago, Goseki1 said:What are its bad matchups?
- Bombs neuter Assaj's defenses, and can kill Fenn in a single turn
- Carnor Jax
- Alpha strikes
- Ketsu poses problems for both Fenn and Assaj
I'm sure there are others, but these ones come to mind.
1 hour ago, sozin said:Grats to my pirate ship mate Blair Bunke on making his third cut in three regionals! His challenge yesterday was to drink one beer per game, which it seems he did! Although he had to drink two beers in the last game to make up for missing the fifth round.
IMO Parattani doesn't require "tremendous" skill, but it does require skill (things to avoid: getting Fenn killed early, getting Manaroo too close to the fight, getting the @#%^ bombed out of you like I did in Chicago Regionals top 8 :-). Dengaroo is really easy to fly, just point and charge. Now, Parattani can be easy too, here it is in my patented Seven Easy Steps!
1) start on the bottom right of the map
2) point Asajj's mobile arc towards the middle of the board
3) fly in big lazy loops around the map with Asajj leading Manaroo
4) if you can, target lock with Manaroo and focus with either Asajj or Fenn so that Fenn can get boosted with Manaroo's TL
5) fly Fenn carefully behind Manaroo, being a complete coward until your perfect moment arrives, and which point you
6) pounce with Fenn, boosting happily because you're gonna end up with two focuses and a target lock after the Magic that is Manaroo+Attani Mindlink
7) gleefully enjoy the savage joy that is X-Wing Red Dice Inflation as you one shot some poor Rookie XWing
To be fair, Sozin, you are a player with tremendous skill. Your seven easy steps are a set of rules that you've established for yourself to have success with that list. This is something that every good player does with any list that they fly competitively.
What sets apart a tournament winner from all the other Attani players is how they can adapt to players that disrupt what you want to do.
yeah, I was being a little tongue in cheek :-) agree with your points (except for the tremendous skill bit ;-) )
Edited by sozin40 minutes ago, Criwi Romed said:- Bombs neuter Assaj's defenses, and can kill Fenn in a single turn
- Carnor Jax
- Alpha strikes
- Ketsu poses problems for both Fenn and Assaj
I'm sure there are others, but these ones come to mind.
Stress also helps.
Vancouver BC finals has Paratanni mirror match finals, and they were three out of the top four (double Warden bombers with Norra was the other).
4 hours ago, AlexW said:Popularity is certainly a reason that lists win regionals, but implying that popularity is the reason is simply wrong, or at the very least doesn't tell the whole story. The list is becoming more popular precisely because people are recognizing how powerful it is.
I'd argue that the reason it hasn't won more regionals is that it took so long to catch on. Since it's become popular in the last couple of months it's seeing success that reminds me of the falcon/phantom days.
Mindlink, Manaroo, and Fenn are all representative of various elements power creep in this game in some form and this list has it in several areas. Its action efficiency mitigates dice variance to some degree, it has unlimited range mechanics (something I no longer think should be in this game at all), and it has hyper red dice in the form of Fenn.
I was implying that it wasn't simply popularity, but also player skill (look at the names of the winners, you'll recognize many of them), and many players getting bored of some of the other top tier lists. People are getting really sick of playing defenders, so we're not seeing them as much (at least in my local meta). Same with Dengaroo. This doesn't mean Parattani is better than these. People will eventually get sick of Parattani and move onto something else.
I agree that Parattani does combine some power creep elements. But so does everything else that's competitive.
1 hour ago, balindamood said:Stress also helps.
Stress is borderline useless against attanni. Attanni, not dengaroo is the reason i abounded stress this competitive season. Doublr stress fen, block manaroo, assaj clears a green and the list has 4 focus tokens. I'd go as far as saying you might be better of not using r3a2 so you can modify your attacks if you're shooting stresshog.
Paratanni won Yavin
7 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:Paratanni won Yavin
Mishary Al Faris won Yavin
9 minutes ago, Criwi Romed said:Mishary Al Faris won Yavin
I thought he was running Paratanni?
11 minutes ago, Criwi Romed said:Mishary Al Faris won Yavin
Savage
1 hour ago, Criwi Romed said:I was implying that it wasn't simply popularity, but also player skill (look at the names of the winners, you'll recognize many of them), and many players getting bored of some of the other top tier lists. People are getting really sick of playing defenders, so we're not seeing them as much (at least in my local meta). Same with Dengaroo. This doesn't mean Parattani is better than these. People will eventually get sick of Parattani and move onto something else.
I agree that Parattani does combine some power creep elements. But so does everything else that's competitive.
Sure, I agree that player skill is still paramount in this game, and I do think paratanni takes more skill than a list like Dengaroo, but it still makes use of elements that I'd rather not see in Xwing and hope get dialed back.
17 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:I thought he was running Paratanni?
He was. I'm just making a point that far too often on this forum, people say that a list won a tournament, without giving any credit to the player.
9 minutes ago, Criwi Romed said:He was. I'm just making a point that far too often on this forum, people say that a list won a tournament, without giving any credit to the player.
Oh. Ok. Well done.
A.Goodplayer won the tournament. They always do though, so it's not really interesting information. If it wasn't A.Goodplayer it would likely have been his cousin, A.N.Othergoodplayer. I think what the A.Goodplayer was using that helped him to beat A.N.Othergoodplayer and Y.E.Tanothergoodplayer is more interesting.
You need from Facebook. Yavin top 8 (well 9,as one had to drop allowing the overall winner back into top 8).
==========
Faan Yavin
==========
97 points
Pilots
------
Dengar (58)
JumpMaster 5000 (33), Lone Wolf (2), Plasma Torpedoes (3), Flechette Torpedoes (2), Zuckuss (1), Overclocked R4 (1), Inertial Dampeners (1), Punishing One (12), Counter-Measures (3)
Manaroo (39)
JumpMaster 5000 (27), Push the Limit (3), “Gonk” (2), Unhinged Astromech (1), Feedback Array (2), Engine Upgrade (4)
=============
Luke Townsend
=============
98 points
Pilots
------
Fenn Rau (32)
Protectorate Starfighter (28), Attanni Mindlink (1), Concord Dawn Protector (1), Autothrusters (2)
Old Teroch (30)
Protectorate Starfighter (26), Attanni Mindlink (1), Concord Dawn Protector (1), Autothrusters (2)
Manaroo (36)
JumpMaster 5000 (27), Attanni Mindlink (1), K4 Security Droid (3), R5-P8 (3), Anti-Pursuit Lasers (2)
=========
Pete Wood
=========
98 points
Pilots
------
Fenn Rau (32)
Protectorate Starfighter (28), Attanni Mindlink (1), Concord Dawn Protector (1), Autothrusters (2)
Old Teroch (30)
Protectorate Starfighter (26), Attanni Mindlink (1), Concord Dawn Protector (1), Autothrusters (2)
Manaroo (36)
JumpMaster 5000 (27), Attanni Mindlink (1), Plasma Torpedoes (3), K4 Security Droid (3), Unhinged Astromech (1), Burnout Slam (1), Guidance Chips (0)
================
George Dellapina
================
100 points
Pilots
------
Fenn Rau (32)
Protectorate Starfighter (28), Attanni Mindlink (1), Concord Dawn Protector (1), Autothrusters (2)
Asajj Ventress (40)
Lancer-class Pursuit Craft (37), Attanni Mindlink (1), Latts Razzi (2)
Manaroo (28)
JumpMaster 5000 (27), Attanni Mindlink (1)
============
Oli Pocknell
============
100 points
Pilots
------
Fenn Rau (31)
Protectorate Starfighter (28), Attanni Mindlink (1), Autothrusters (2)
Old Teroch (29)
Protectorate Starfighter (26), Attanni Mindlink (1), Autothrusters (2)
Asajj Ventress (40)
Lancer-class Pursuit Craft (37), Attanni Mindlink (1), Latts Razzi (2)
=========================
Krysztof Piszcz (Dropped)
=========================
100 points
Pilots
------
Miranda Doni (53)
K-Wing (29), Extra Munitions (2), Homing Missiles (5), Sabine Wren (2), Cluster Mines (4), Proton Bombs (5), Advanced SLAM (2), Conner Net (4)
Esege Tuketu (47)
K-Wing (28), Twin Laser Turret (6), Extra Munitions (2), Bombardier (1), Cluster Mines (4), Conner Net (4), Advanced SLAM (2)
=========
Cal Jones
=========
99 points
Pilots
------
Ahsoka Tano (22)
Sabine's TIE Fighter (17), Veteran Instincts (1), Sabine's Masterpiece (1), Captured TIE (1), Black Market Slicer Tools (1), Inspiring Recruit (1)
Hera Syndulla (59)
VCX-100 (40), Ghost (0), Accuracy Corrector (3), Twin Laser Turret (6), C-3PO (3), Navigator (3), Engine Upgrade (4)
“Zeb” Orrelios (18)
Attack Shuttle (18), Phantom (0)
====================
Wojciech Szafalowicz
====================
100 points
Pilots
------
Fenn Rau (32)
Protectorate Starfighter (28), Attanni Mindlink (1), Concord Dawn Protector (1), Autothrusters (2)
Manaroo (28)
JumpMaster 5000 (27), Attanni Mindlink (1)
Asajj Ventress (40)
Lancer-class Pursuit Craft (37), Attanni Mindlink (1), Latts Razzi (2)
===============
Mishary Alfaris
===============
100 points
Pilots
------
Fenn Rau (32)
Protectorate Starfighter (28), Attanni Mindlink (1), Concord Dawn Protector (1), Autothrusters (2)
Manaroo (28)
JumpMaster 5000 (27), Attanni Mindlink (1)
Asajj Ventress (40)
Lancer-class Pursuit Craft (37), Attanni Mindlink (1), Latts Razzi (2)
I was the 94 point fenn terry manny. I honestly couldnt think of any super bad match ups for my squads and there is nothing i would spend the other 6 points on.
94 was an easy choice.
Guarantees my fenn and terry are flying second. Gives me a ridiculous under bid against dengar. And i can hose parratanni no worries.
Most of my paratanni games fenn died turn one.
IMO attani is more the problem. Paratanni is just good cause its a low skill cap and has an answer to everything. But if you fly well you can beat it.
I like the suggestion somebody came up with of making Attani Mindlink Small Ship Only
One idea a couple of us bounced around at Brisbane was having the other ships perform Focus actions , so that stress is an actual problem rather than a mild inconvenience and it becomes much harder to create a token stack with it.
Edited by DR4CO7 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:I like the suggestion somebody came up with of making Attani Mindlink Small Ship Only
Meh, that kills a lot of its more interesting but less efficient interactions - ketsu, bossk, boba, even assaj - whilst only removing the biggest problem - Manaroo.
Fixing Mindlink goes two ways for me: one, fix manaroo. Range limit. Probably 1-3, maybe 1-2 even. Two: append 'You cannot be assigned more than one focus token. You cannot be assigned more than one stress token' to Mindlink. Mostly neuters the stacking problem with Manaroo, but leaves some interesting interactions around passing TLs, and stops that whole 'one action =four actions' thing where the most vulnerable of the aces is always getting at least two focus tokens, whilst actually adding to the stress protection side - which is getting quite useful right now - and retaining 'cheap PTLs for everyone' without allowing anyone to take the same action twice or 3 times.
2 minutes ago, DR4CO said:One idea a couple of us bounced around at Brisbane was having the other ships perform Focus actions , so that stress is an actual problem rather than a mild inconvenience and it becomes much harder to create a token stack with it.
That woudl also be a very elegant solution, albeit it would REALLY screw the interesting interactions where mindlinkers sharing a PS can have the first guy K turn and still be given a focus, which woudl make it a lot more difficult to fly those lists whilst barely impinging Parattani, where everyone has crazy good greens and you still only need them all the be clear at start of combat for everyone to end up with something as long as Manaroo's got one.
Seems to me a number of things could be fixed by simply stating "all effects/actions that do not explicitly provide a range are limited to range 3."
Meh to nerfs in general. Sure Attanni, Palp and Manaroo in general are pretty powerful, but if you nerf any one of those a new "power list" that was previously suppressed just takes over and the endless chain of nerfs continues. Careful what you wish for because without a lot of these top lists being played a fringe list like TLT spam could take over as one of, if not THE most dominant list in the game. A lot of these proposed nerfs also don't do anything to triple defenders, which some would argue is an even better list than Commonwealth and certainly on the same power level as most Attani lists and Dengaroo.
Edited by TitaniumChopstick9 minutes ago, balindamood said:Seems to me a number of things could be fixed by simply stating "all effects/actions that do not explicitly provide a range are limited to range 3."
That might fix something like a Dengaroo where you want to keep the ships on the opposite sides of the board but for something like Parattanni or OldMan Fenn it would chance very little as they are usually within range 3 anyway. Especially when the first ship to move will usually move back into R3 if it was outside to begin with.
It would be pretty weird if Attanni Mindlink didn't work with Manaroo.
(because that's a thing of her species and it's probably Manaroo on the card art)
New thread for this convo pretty please!