Was kicking around a list for an escalation event where a TO was allowing Scum some of the existing 'Epic'-ships, and noticed something of a brutal combo.

In a faction where Zuckuss exists...check out that 'Comms Booster' cargo upgrade.

Yikes?!

Oh, snap-shot-Dengar, you picked up 9 stress last turn? No problem - you're clear. And here's a focus! Not sure that's going to be easy to balance...

...nevermind that Scum without an illicit slot doesn't feel very "scummy", yet...an Epic-scale ship with Glitterstim? ...Inertial Dampeners? etc...

Dunno, maybe a Scum 'huge' isn't as inevitable as we thought - not sure how FFG would prevent some of these rather powerful combos...

Scum epic without Illicit isn't noteworthy. It's not like the existing Rebel ships get Astromechs or other "Rebel" upgrades.

Huge ships have basically 4 kinds of upgrades. Hardpoints, Crew, Teams, and Cargo. A Scum Epic would be assumed to have the same limitations, and have Scum-only options for Teams.

Mara jade on a gozanti (that drops of 3 bombers plus jonus). Rebel crew. Jonus escorting a raider. Tie/d's with ruthlessness. Just a massive z or tie swarm. Who cares about a toilet seat that gets two shots and then dies to weight of fire in epic? Heck, let's just run it over with a gozanti with RAC anf engine booster. Not to rain on your parade at all. It's a cool and fun idea, but while it would be massively broken in standard play, in epic it may even be an inefficient use of points. There are loads of nasty things in epic, give scum a huge ship too.

The actual thing limiting the scum epic ship in my mind is zuckuss riding on it. The only way I see around that being broken as sin is if he's ineligible due to the stress cost not affecting the epic ship.

There are some good options already just on rebels, not to mention elsewhere. They have already shown the C-ROC Gozanti a couple times, with people to go on it. They have also shown this new Mandalorian ship that looks like a much larger Protectorate Fighter - It might be a bit smaller than the Gozanti, but I think it COULD serve as an Epic ship, if only just BARELY on the edge of the size limitations.

The actual thing limiting the scum epic ship in my mind is zuckuss riding on it. The only way I see around that being broken as sin is if he's ineligible due to the stress cost not affecting the epic ship.

Right, Zuckuss is just flat-out a problem. Huge ship ignores stress, so Zuckuss just goes ahead and forces everyone to re-roll every evade die, because why not?

Imagine a Scum CR90 - that's four attacks a turn (at least...potentially 7 a turn if the CR90 went with Quad Laser Cannons for all its hardpoints) where all 'good' agility results are getting rerolled at no cost...

And Zuckuss is a recent release - this, to me, seems to point to FFG not even having a Scum 'Huge' ship in playtest at the moment, or Zuckuss would have come out with a 'small or large ships, only' limitation.

Any Scum Epic ship would almost have to be a support ship without any hard points, or with like, very limited hard points like the Gozanti (1 attack per turn) so that Dengar crew and Zuckuss crew can't be abused with impunity. Those cats would be bonkers on a ship with as many attacks as a Raider or the Tantive IV.

Any Scum Epic ship would almost have to be a support ship without any hard points, or with like, very limited hard points like the Gozanti (1 attack per turn) so that Dengar crew and Zuckuss crew can't be abused with impunity. Those cats would be bonkers on a ship with as many attacks as a Raider or the Tantive IV.

Wonder what would be more annoying on a CR90, alongside Zuckuss, though...Dengar? Or Latts Razzi? (At least CrewG-88 doesn't really have any annoying combos...)

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Zuckuss wouldn't have an insane impact on epic (even in an epic ship). Let's assume the scum epic "corvette" gets 1 primary attack and has 3 hard points. If it is anything like the other epic ships that exist then it will only have 2 crew slots. These are EXTREMELY important. Some options for these slots are near auto-include. If Zuckuss is selected as epic crew that's one less upgrade picked to improve your rolls.

In a standard round we'll assume you have 4 shots to take. In faction there aren't any cpt Jonus' so all you have to modify all 4 attacks is... One target lock, oh and zuckuss will make the green dice less reliable for the enemy. So assuming the first primary is 4 dice, it probably uses the target lock and you probably deal some decent damage with it. Then all you have to modify the three other (probably three die) shots is zuckuss. I'm not too terrified of three 1.5 hit rolls being forced through green dice when I have 8+ tie fighters at least on the table. Maybe that is just me though. I look forward to how they make the scum epic unique. In fact if it had more crew slots (3) that would be a scummy mercenary feel of its own.

Any Scum Epic ship would almost have to be a support ship without any hard points, or with like, very limited hard points like the Gozanti (1 attack per turn) so that Dengar crew and Zuckuss crew can't be abused with impunity. Those cats would be bonkers on a ship with as many attacks as a Raider or the Tantive IV.

Which is my money is on something like Jabba's personal craft (Because c'mon, Jabba!), or a smuggling freighter of some sort.

I'd love a scum Cruiser, don't get me wrong, I just find it mildly unlikely.

Zuckuss wouldn't have an insane impact on epic (even in an epic ship). Let's assume the scum epic "corvette" gets 1 primary attack and has 3 hard points. If it is anything like the other epic ships that exist then it will only have 2 crew slots. These are EXTREMELY important. Some options for these slots are near auto-include. If Zuckuss is selected as epic crew that's one less upgrade picked to improve your rolls.

In a standard round we'll assume you have 4 shots to take. In faction there aren't any cpt Jonus' so all you have to modify all 4 attacks is... One target lock, oh and zuckuss will make the green dice less reliable for the enemy. So assuming the first primary is 4 dice, it probably uses the target lock and you probably deal some decent damage with it. Then all you have to modify the three other (probably three die) shots is zuckuss. I'm not too terrified of three 1.5 hit rolls being forced through green dice when I have 8+ tie fighters at least on the table. Maybe that is just me though. I look forward to how they make the scum epic unique. In fact if it had more crew slots (3) that would be a scummy mercenary feel of its own.

And if the other crew slot has Dengar in it? And if there are an illicit slots to use Glitterstim on the opening salvo?

You REALLY wouldn't be worried about that? The force multiplying effect of Dengar and Zuckuss crew on ships with many attacks is pretty unrivaled by anything the other two factions can bring to bare. No sense pretending it isn't.

That said, we can have awesome Scum epic ships with lots of hard points if they don't have any crew slots, or like...one crew slot tops, and we can have epic Scum ships with lots of crew slots if they're mainly support oriented. I'm cool with it so long as the combined number of hard points and crew slots on any scum epic do not exceed 4. Abusing both Dengar and Zuckuss for 2 hard points per turn is a bit much, but not more than Dengaroo does currently, so we'll let it fly.

Zuckuss is interesting no doubt but perhaps the balance will come in special crew that are MORE desirable to take than Zuckuss? Jabba taking up 2, or even 3 crew slots for example... could be an extremely powerful card that might allow for a ton of battlefield control.

Zuckuss wouldn't have an insane impact on epic (even in an epic ship). Let's assume the scum epic "corvette" gets 1 primary attack and has 3 hard points. If it is anything like the other epic ships that exist then it will only have 2 crew slots. These are EXTREMELY important. Some options for these slots are near auto-include. If Zuckuss is selected as epic crew that's one less upgrade picked to improve your rolls.

In a standard round we'll assume you have 4 shots to take. In faction there aren't any cpt Jonus' so all you have to modify all 4 attacks is... One target lock, oh and zuckuss will make the green dice less reliable for the enemy. So assuming the first primary is 4 dice, it probably uses the target lock and you probably deal some decent damage with it. Then all you have to modify the three other (probably three die) shots is zuckuss. I'm not too terrified of three 1.5 hit rolls being forced through green dice when I have 8+ tie fighters at least on the table. Maybe that is just me though. I look forward to how they make the scum epic unique. In fact if it had more crew slots (3) that would be a scummy mercenary feel of its own.

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Zuckuss is interesting no doubt but perhaps the balance will come in special crew that are MORE desirable to take than Zuckuss? Jabba taking up 2, or even 3 crew slots for example... could be an extremely powerful card that might allow for a ton of battlefield control.

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Zuckuss wouldn't have an insane impact on epic (even in an epic ship). Let's assume the scum epic "corvette" gets 1 primary attack and has 3 hard points. If it is anything like the other epic ships that exist then it will only have 2 crew slots. These are EXTREMELY important. Some options for these slots are near auto-include. If Zuckuss is selected as epic crew that's one less upgrade picked to improve your rolls.

In a standard round we'll assume you have 4 shots to take. In faction there aren't any cpt Jonus' so all you have to modify all 4 attacks is... One target lock, oh and zuckuss will make the green dice less reliable for the enemy. So assuming the first primary is 4 dice, it probably uses the target lock and you probably deal some decent damage with it. Then all you have to modify the three other (probably three die) shots is zuckuss. I'm not too terrified of three 1.5 hit rolls being forced through green dice when I have 8+ tie fighters at least on the table. Maybe that is just me though. I look forward to how they make the scum epic unique. In fact if it had more crew slots (3) that would be a scummy mercenary feel of its own.

And if the other crew slot has Dengar in it? And if there are an illicit slots to use Glitterstim on the opening salvo?

You REALLY wouldn't be worried about that? The force multiplying effect of Dengar and Zuckuss crew on ships with many attacks is pretty unrivaled by anything the other two factions can bring to bare. No sense pretending it isn't.

That said, we can have awesome Scum epic ships with lots of hard points if they don't have any crew slots, or like...one crew slot tops, and we can have epic Scum ships with lots of crew slots if they're mainly support oriented. I'm cool with it so long as the combined number of hard points and crew slots on any scum epic do not exceed 4. Abusing both Dengar and Zuckuss for 2 hard points per turn is a bit much, but not more than Dengaroo does currently, so we'll let it fly.

Cool that they put dengar and zuckuss in the huge ship. That is pretty good, but it isn't as frightening as a raider rolling in with 2 target locks for his 2 primary shots (weapons engineer) and 3 quad laser cannons with jonus rerolls firing at ps 6 because of jonus' swarm tactics. There are disgusting things that epic ships can do, but seriously I wouldn't be frightened by any of them. It is epic. Unless you have something really absurd going on then there will always be enough fighters that the epic ship is more in mortal danger rather than putting the opponent in danger. I fly my epic ships because they are fun and epic doesn't feel "epic" without them, not because they are hyper efficient murder machines. If they were you wouldn't hear about lists like 10 academy pilots and 10 alpha squadron pilots.

What makes you think Scum Epic would have a lot of hardpoints? I'd expect maybe something a bit more formidable than a Gozanti, but nothing that can go one-on-one with a Raider or Corvette.

I make no such assumptions. I have no idea what the Scum epic will look like.

I was merely pointing out that if a Scum epic ship came out with a primary weapon, 3 hard points and 2 crew slots, it'd be a massive problem because it'd be able to dish out a beating that was pretty unrivaled by the other epic ships thanks to the unique nature of Dengar and Zuckuss crew.

Hopefully a Scum epic is on the way, and hopefully the designers kept such concerns in mind.

Was kicking around a list for an escalation event where a TO was allowing Scum some of the existing 'Epic'-ships, and noticed something of a brutal combo.

In a faction where Zuckuss exists...check out that 'Comms Booster' cargo upgrade.

Yikes?!

Oh, snap-shot-Dengar, you picked up 9 stress last turn? No problem - you're clear. And here's a focus! Not sure that's going to be easy to balance...

...nevermind that Scum without an illicit slot doesn't feel very "scummy", yet...an Epic-scale ship with Glitterstim? ...Inertial Dampeners? etc...

Dunno, maybe a Scum 'huge' isn't as inevitable as we thought - not sure how FFG would prevent some of these rather powerful combos...

Zuckuss on the huge itself.

FFG would just do some card errata like they have in the past.

Was kicking around a list for an escalation event where a TO was allowing Scum some of the existing 'Epic'-ships, and noticed something of a brutal combo.

In a faction where Zuckuss exists...check out that 'Comms Booster' cargo upgrade.

Yikes?!

Oh, snap-shot-Dengar, you picked up 9 stress last turn? No problem - you're clear. And here's a focus! Not sure that's going to be easy to balance...

...nevermind that Scum without an illicit slot doesn't feel very "scummy", yet...an Epic-scale ship with Glitterstim? ...Inertial Dampeners? etc...

Dunno, maybe a Scum 'huge' isn't as inevitable as we thought - not sure how FFG would prevent some of these rather powerful combos...

Zuckuss on the huge itself.

FFG would just do some card errata like they have in the past.

Same with Dengar.

But the "problem" is that both Dengar and Zuckuss were wave 9 releases - IE., they just came out, yet did not specify 'small or large base, only'.

Given we seem to be in pretty general agreement that they'd be crazy broken on Epic-scale ships, and as a new release they lack the text that would prevent them from being equipped to Epic-scale ships...the logical conclusion is that FFG doesn't have a Scum Epic-scale ship currently in playtest (or the interaction would have been caught, and the cards would have been released with appropriate limiting text on them instead of what we got).

If a Scum 'huge' ship isn't even in playtest, yet...then it would seem to indicate we either aren't getting one, or if we are getting one, it's going to be quite a long ways out...

...or, of course, the Scum 'Epic' being worked on simply cannot perform attacks (a la the GR-75) or is otherwise VERY limited in doing so (Gozanti-ish).

Even in that case, though, you still run into the issue of Comms Booster being pretty ridiculously powerful in a fleet that does have Zuckuss.

...or, of course, the Scum 'Epic' being worked on simply cannot perform attacks (a la the GR-75) or is otherwise VERY limited in doing so (Gozanti-ish).

Even in that case, though, you still run into the issue of Comms Booster being pretty ridiculously powerful in a fleet that does have Zuckuss.

The Eravana gives Scum an Epic option similar to the GR-75. It would also be an interesting way to get Han into the Scum faction. http://www.starwars.com/databank/the-eravana

Focus, Evade, and Stress Tokens Focus, evade, and stress tokens do not affect huge ships. When a huge ship receives any of these tokens, immediately remove them and return them to the token supply

TBH as a Huge ship can't get stress I'm sure they would rule that you couldn't use cards that had stress as part of their cost, so no Zuckuss. It would be similar to the ruling on Soontir and Yorr, the rules on huge ships would cancel the stress gain so the whole card would fizzle.

Focus, Evade, and Stress Tokens Focus, evade, and stress tokens do not affect huge ships. When a huge ship receives any of these tokens, immediately remove them and return them to the token supply

TBH as a Huge ship can't get stress I'm sure they would rule that you couldn't use cards that had stress as part of their cost, so no Zuckuss. It would be similar to the ruling on Soontir and Yorr, the rules on huge ships would cancel the stress gain so the whole card would fizzle.

Definitely the basis for such a ruling is present but technically it's different than yorr in that yorr intercepts the stress so it never touches soontir while epic ships just immediately discard it AFTER recieving it.