Go take a breather Taste, I dont want to debate this all day. We will not change our opinions, there is no right or wrong here. We are both leftist liberals it would seem and have different ways of supporting that ideal.
It's here, it's finally here! Election Day!
I wonder how many people are thinking "If only I shared a few more political meme's....."
I wonder how many people are thinking "If only I shared a few more political meme's....."
LOL first thing I saw on reddit today, "dear god a meme just got elected as president"
She "did not bring it up"? Is that a joke? Did you actually read any of the candidate's revenue plans?...
Decent plan? Ha! Dont be gullible. The last financial crisis but the fear of collapse into the proudest of politicians, and HRC did not exactly bring up this topic as a campaign theme. The government only solution to anything has always been more spending. The morbid irony this that this (WW3) is what is 'best' for the planet- remove a lot of humans. Humans cause global warming and this is essentially an unstoppable force and inevitable as long as there are humans. More humans mean more CO2 produced where as lower income countries are the worst offenders. They do not have the luxury of the wealthy to worry about global warming when there are safe water and sanitation concerns. The bursting populations is where the future CO2 will be primary from. Sorry to say, but increased CO2 is inevitable... just accept it, unless you decrease the amount of humans on the planet.I grasp it extremely well, which is why I supported HRC from the start. She was the only one with a decent plan to even slow debt accumulation.
But that is not at all scarier. Clearly you didn't read my link. Money won't matter in the future he has planned for us.
If burning all CO2 is inevitable then the end of the species is inevitable. And I refuse to accept that.
If it is a serious plan, such as entitlement reform, and I dont remember hearing that message to often from her- but I do remember more taxes on the rich is the 'solution' but personally I would be very skeptical on both and not take a campaign plan as too serious when it lacks the details. For instance, Paul Ryan had a legitimate serious plan to tackle the problem and he was tarred and feathered.
Paul Ryan's "savings" were less than HRC when adjusted for the year and depended on the private sector delivering medical care cheaper than Feds. I work for Feds in direct cost-savings programs. I can assure you there is no way in hell private plans compete with us. They spend about the same per person currently even with feds/states covering the poorest, oldest and sickest among us. This fairy tale about the US private insurance market being a way to lower costs really needs to die.
Go take a breather Taste, I dont want to debate this all day. We will not change our opinions, there is no right or wrong here. We are both leftist liberals it would seem and have different ways of supporting that ideal.
My children are Jewish and my wife is an immigrant. I am a member of a suspiciously middle eastern religion. This morning my wife suggested we clam up politically for a few years until we know for sure that we won't be subject to some kind of legal reprisals
F that. I'm not taking any more breathers.
Paul Ryan's "savings" were less than HRC when adjusted for the year and depended on the private sector delivering medical care cheaper than Feds. I work for Feds in direct cost-savings programs. I can assure you there is no way in hell private plans compete with us. They spend about the same per person currently even with feds/states covering the poorest, oldest and sickest among us. This fairy tale about the US private insurance market being a way to lower costs really needs to die.
Well, agree with the amount or not, it was a plan you can reasonably critique rather then the ... PROFIT! method. So, tell me how would you critique HRC plan?
Besides the affordable care act which went into practice with 100% support from her party, do not bend the cost curve down and healthcare entitlements are accelerating, and as you can see from the CBO articles, it failed at one of it's primary goals. So, now tell me how the government did a better job at this vs Paul Ryans?
On the apocalyptic side, we're now headed well past 3C. Here's what it looks like.
Fortunately, reality will force his hand- which will tank his idiotic promises, zero chance he will build a silly wall, etc. on the bright side.
Trump has, from the start, been the candidate seeking to raise debt the most.
Amazing, I am still expecting Trump to get 10th in the GOP primaries, so he continues to outperform, which we will need especially with the coming problems. Unfortunatel,y Trump has a huge mess to clean up from his predecessor as prior problems are made much worse. Obama issued more treasury than any president in history! Debt Debt Debt. Publications like this get next to zero attention but here is the problem outlined by the CBO. There is a huge huge problem to deal with as we are heading towards a fiscal cliff. Honesty this is problem numbero uno for me.
That's not even remotely true. He just flat out received far less votes. And he would have been slaughtered on stage telling a general audience he was about to raise taxes.The DNC is to blame for this, 100%. They cheated Bernie off the ballot and instead put out Hillary. The one person Trump could conceivably beat. Bernie had everything that made Trump palatable to the independents (namely the will to change the establishment) and what made Hillary attractive (Experience) without the huge drawbacks to both (not a ignorant billionaire nor a lying sociopath).
Look at the reasons people turned out in exit polls. They loved what Trump promised. No more muslims. Wall. Trade War.
If people start the BS narrative that we can win this by going left now it'll be decades before any progress is made cleaning up Trump's mess.
http://globalwarming.berrens.nl/globalwarming.htm
TLDR? Basically most kids turn into those starving skeletons and stacks of bodies we see in Syria now.
That is why I strongly feel that we must learn how to exist on inhabitable planets. First of all the establishment of a colony on Mars would, if and only if it can be made self-sufficient, form a backup population of humans. The neccessary technologies to achieve this would in turn allow the remaining humans on Earth to resist the death struggles of our planet should climate change not be stopped or should a catastrophic event occur. Life is a lot more vulnerable than commonly assumed. A period of volcanic hyperactivity? We are done. Large asteroid collision? We are also done. At least at the moment. The survival of our species should be a much larger focus than what it is today. We must stop to take it for granted.
Oh and I guess it would be a shame about Earth, too.
On the apocalyptic side, we're now headed well past 3C. Here's what it looks like.
Fortunately, reality will force his hand- which will tank his idiotic promises, zero chance he will build a silly wall, etc. on the bright side.
Trump has, from the start, been the candidate seeking to raise debt the most.
Amazing, I am still expecting Trump to get 10th in the GOP primaries, so he continues to outperform, which we will need especially with the coming problems. Unfortunatel,y Trump has a huge mess to clean up from his predecessor as prior problems are made much worse. Obama issued more treasury than any president in history! Debt Debt Debt. Publications like this get next to zero attention but here is the problem outlined by the CBO. There is a huge huge problem to deal with as we are heading towards a fiscal cliff. Honesty this is problem numbero uno for me.
That's not even remotely true. He just flat out received far less votes. And he would have been slaughtered on stage telling a general audience he was about to raise taxes.The DNC is to blame for this, 100%. They cheated Bernie off the ballot and instead put out Hillary. The one person Trump could conceivably beat. Bernie had everything that made Trump palatable to the independents (namely the will to change the establishment) and what made Hillary attractive (Experience) without the huge drawbacks to both (not a ignorant billionaire nor a lying sociopath).
Look at the reasons people turned out in exit polls. They loved what Trump promised. No more muslims. Wall. Trade War.
If people start the BS narrative that we can win this by going left now it'll be decades before any progress is made cleaning up Trump's mess.
http://globalwarming.berrens.nl/globalwarming.htm
TLDR? Basically most kids turn into those starving skeletons and stacks of bodies we see in Syria now.
That is why I strongly feel that we must learn how to exist on inhabitable planets. First of all the establishment of a colony on Mars would, if and only if it can be made self-sufficient, form a backup population of humans. The neccessary technologies to achieve this would in turn allow the remaining humans on Earth to resist the death struggles of our planet should climate change not be stopped or should a catastrophic event occur. Life is a lot more vulnerable than commonly assumed. A period of volcanic hyperactivity? We are done. Large asteroid collision? We are also done. At least at the moment. The survival of our species should be a much larger focus than what it is today. We must stop to take it for granted.
Oh and I guess it would be a shame about Earth, too.
Yeah there are some amazing Netflix videos on Yellowstone that I recommend everyone enjoy- beautiful and scary. Talk about a apocalyptic time bomb that is overdue!
Yea there is not a single link there that suggests the DNC "spent all its money" on HRC.
Go take a breather Taste, I dont want to debate this all day. We will not change our opinions, there is no right or wrong here. We are both leftist liberals it would seem and have different ways of supporting that ideal.
My children are Jewish and my wife is an immigrant. I am a member of a suspiciously middle eastern religion. This morning my wife suggested we clam up politically for a few years until we know for sure that we won't be subject to some kind of legal reprisals
F that. I'm not taking any more breathers.
bit of a misquote there, I said "all their weight and money" which should have been "all their weight, and money" Wasn't trying to say they gave her campaign tons of cash (but with superpacs etc. we can never know how much she received from where) but they definitely spent money in support of her.
We don't want a socialist nation, and that's exactly where Clinton wante to take us.
And some of us do not.
As someone from the UK who considers the views I hold very much socialist and even communist in lots of ways I get the impression that in the USA socialist / socialism is seen as dirty word by large parts of the population. Would that be correct?
If so what is it that large parts of the US population dislike so much?
Absolutely it is the "S" word in the USA.
Why? Because a misinformed notion of what Socialism really is. Many think that socialism is just a step on the inevitable road to communism. More importantly, Americans still have a Wild West 1800's notion of property and freedom: take what you can, keep it by force of arms, and if you don't earn it yourself you don't deserve it at all.
It every man for himself--framed under the placating guise of capitalism, work-ethic, and everyone has an equal chance to achieve.
Climate science science says you are wrong. Trump isn't just bad. He's a nightmare. We probably lost our shot at the already-apocalyptic 3C plan. 6C warming is going to smash western civilization like a hammer. It already struck the first blows in Europe.I'm disgusted with Trump and scared at what he'll do, but let's not pretend that Clinton was — in any way, shape, or form — a better candidate. Neither her nor Trump represent true conservative values that would get ou nation back to where it needs to be. We don't want a socialist nation, and that's exactly where Clinton wante to take us. I absolutely reject the notion that Trump will be worse for our society than Clinton.
This vote is our answer to the Fermi Paradox. This is why space is quiet. Because even intelligent species are too stupid to defend against themselves.
Do you mean the Drake equation? Or is the Fermi paradox specific to the portion of the Drake equation that applies here?
Since, we are on the topic of global devastation with the Trump election, here is some more food for thought. Worry about climate change? Of course! But, the point is there are a lot of concerns and the real question is how do we allocated resources and prioritize each? And if we decrease USA CO2 emissions with climate change policy, let us say, 5% in 20 years at a cost of 2 trillion, is that a worthwhile use of resources?
Edited by Amraam01Do you mean the Drake equation? Or is the Fermi paradox specific to the portion of the Drake equation that applies here?
Basically the Fermi Paradox says that if there was intelligent life out there we would either already met them, or perhaps been destroyed or conquered by them.
The idea is that given the likely expansion of any space faring civilization and the age of the universe if there was one out there, they should've spread over a vast majority of the galaxy already.
Do you mean the Drake equation? Or is the Fermi paradox specific to the portion of the Drake equation that applies here?
Basically the Fermi Paradox says that if there was intelligent life out there we would either already met them, or perhaps been destroyed or conquered by them.
The idea is that given the likely expansion of any space faring civilization and the age of the universe if there was one out there, they should've spread over a vast majority of the galaxy already.
We should also consider that interstellar travel might just not be feasible outside of "pack a bunch of lunatics (or the last ones left when the solar system ends) in cryostasis and send them to where you suspect an inhabitable planet to exist in a few hundred/thousand years". They could succeed or not, for the origin civilization that is unknowable. The furthest a civilization could spread would be its solar system, then.
Well, I am sorely disappointed in the results. I'm willing to wait and see what the hell happens next, though. Trump might be just unusual enough to force something decent to happen. The Republicans will control all branches of government. Will they push for standard GOP crap? Or will maybe Trump try to force something different through? It's quite possible that something might actually get done. It's more likely that partisan politics will continue as normal and I'll hate the next 4 years.
I do have to say something about this:
Unfortunatel,y Trump has a huge mess to clean up from his predecessor as prior problems are made much worse. Obama issued more treasury than any president in history! Debt Debt Debt. Publications like this get next to zero attention but here is the problem outlined by the CBO. There is a huge huge problem to deal with as we are heading towards a fiscal cliff. Honesty this is problem numbero uno for me.
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/51580
While the debt has gotten bigger under Obama, it's disingenuous to put the blame on him. You talk about Trump inheriting problems, but that's exactly what Obama did. Not only did Bush start two wars, but he lowered taxes, restricted the federal govt from negotiating prices on pharmaceuticals, and increased Medicare without even trying to pay for it. Obama has reduced the deficit by 60%, which is pretty amazing. If you start off already behind and at the highest point of debt ever, then of course you are going to go even further in debt.
I agree this was never an Obama only thing... just he helped compound the problem- essentially continue the Bush policies in a lot of regards which was a bad thing. Of note, your graph stops at 2011, (5 years ago?) and doesn't include really account for the new entitlements up curves he enacted so the graph is misleading at best especially coming for the office of the democratic leader. And besides % increase of debt is an 'interesting' way to put it, as a smaller percent increase could mean a much bigger gross amount as the debt was a whole lot bigger when Obama came in so a similar % increase actually means a lot lot more $$$. That is one way to lie with statistics if your not careful. Anyways, I digress, the point:
The problem is the new president coming into office regardless of who won and what happened before, what will the president do about this inherited problem?
In 8 weeks we will pass 20 trillion, and I suspect suddenly the media will take interest in this topic after ignoring it for the last few years. Mark my words on that, you will be hearing a lot more about the unsustainable debt soon.
We should also consider that interstellar travel might just not be feasible
That's one of the things people consider. I'm no expert on it all by any means... But this is how I understand it. I think there was a youtube video that went into fairly deep detail about both...
The math for it is based on some assumptions, namely that given enough time colonisation of other star systems is possible, and something that a given race would want to do.
But if you make those two assumptions and consider the size of the galaxy vs age then the math says we'd already know about other life.
Even that graph though is a bit misleading as foundations for the 2008 crisis were laid during Clinton.
Nor is the absolute monetary value all that important, percentage of the GDP is. That is problematic for the US at the moment but the quickest way to fix that is to grow the economy, not by paying off the debt (that would require an austerity program that would end up hurting the economy more) directly.
Even that graph though is a bit misleading as foundations for the 2008 crisis were laid during Clinton.
Nor is the absolute monetary value all that important, percentage of the GDP is. That is problematic for the US at the moment but the quickest way to fix that is to grow the economy, not by paying off the debt (that would require an austerity program that would end up hurting the economy more) directly.
Taxes is one way, but you sap growth especially short term. Reduce spending, we'll see if reforms can be accomplished as there are a lot of special interests to somehow overcome. Or the nasty word that beats down the blue collar American... Inflation. You dont have to raise taxes or cut spending! An easy easy fix to solve your debt problems that governments love love love to try to get away with but ultimately never works without real wealth reduction. Watch that marker. Someone should ask, why do we have interest rates STILL at historic lows... Hummmmm...
Edited by Amraam01I agree this was never an Obama only thing... just he helped compound the problem- essentially continue the Bush policies in a lot of regards which was a bad thing. Of note, your graph stops at 2011, (5 years ago?) and doesn't include really account for the new entitlements up curves he enacted so the graph is misleading at best especially coming for the office of the democratic leader. And besides % increase of debt is an 'interesting' way to put it, as a smaller percent increase could mean a much bigger gross amount as the debt was a whole lot bigger when Obama came in so a similar % increase actually means a lot lot more $$$. That is one way to lie with statistics if your not careful. Anyways, I digress, the point:
The problem is the new president coming into office regardless of who won and what happened before, what will the president do about this inherited problem?
In 8 weeks we will pass 20 trillion, and I suspect suddenly the media will take interest in this topic after ignoring it for the last few years. Mark my words on that, you will be hearing a lot more about the unsustainable debt soon.
Ahh....I was looking at a few charts and picked that one for the heads. Yes, that one might not have been the best, but it's still not really Obama's fault.
Well, even for Trump, there is only so much most people are willing to do. It's our Defense spending, Medicare, and Social Security that are causing the real issues. Will we try to split hairs over Planned Parenthood or NPR? Or will Trump be willing to tackle the big issues?
i couldn't bring myself to vote for ether of the candidates, so i voted to validate a third party
I'm disgusted with Trump and scared at what he'll do, but let's not pretend that Clinton was — in any way, shape, or form — a better candidate. Neither her nor Trump represent true conservative values that would get ou nation back to where it needs to be. We don't want a socialist nation, and that's exactly where Clinton wante to take us. I absolutely reject the notion that Trump will be worse for our society than Clinton.
Relativism at its best or worst, depending on the view. There is no reason to pretend. Even if Clinton would have been that literal demon from hell as 40% of trump votes believe, she would be still the better candidate and even represent conservative values better. ;-)
Amazing, I am still expecting Trump to get 10th in the GOP primaries, so he continues to outperform, which we will need especially with the coming problems. Unfortunately Trump has a huge mess to clean up from his predecessor as prior problems are made much worse. Obama issued more treasury than any president in history! Debt Debt Debt. Publications like this get next to zero attention but here is the problem outlined by the CBO. There is a huge huge problem to deal with as we are heading towards a fiscal cliff. Honesty this is problem numbero uno for me.That's not even remotely true. He just flat out received far less votes. And he would have been slaughtered on stage telling a general audience he was about to raise taxes.The DNC is to blame for this, 100%. They cheated Bernie off the ballot and instead put out Hillary. The one person Trump could conceivably beat. Bernie had everything that made Trump palatable to the independents (namely the will to change the establishment) and what made Hillary attractive (Experience) without the huge drawbacks to both (not a ignorant billionaire nor a lying sociopath).
Look at the reasons people turned out in exit polls. They loved what Trump promised. No more muslims. Wall. Trade War.
If people start the BS narrative that we can win this by going left now it'll be decades before any progress is made cleaning up Trump's mess.
Well, technical Obama's economic policies worked out ok. Debt is an issue, stimulating the economy to come out ahead of most from the financial crisis. And Trump wants to start printing money. He literally said so in his campaign and his program reads the same way as it has some huge gaps in how to finance his ideas. Trump will most likely add more debt than even Obama did and Obama was indeed quite liberal with his spendings.
Oh and for Petes Sake stop calling Sanders socialist, check the word social-democratic. Sanders has some sprinkles of that, nothing more, nothing less. The whole "Bernie is a socialist" thing is another case of demonizing a political opponent to fool the voters.
Edited by SEApocalypseI have to admit that after being calm all day, I had something unrelated set me off. Now I am fuming mad. I'm pissed at this election.
I didn't see a whole lot of coverage, but it seemed to me that most if not all main urban centers or heavily populated counties voted Hillary while the more rural areas voted Trump.
A state's ratio of urban and rural population would then determine which way the state went.
Edited by Kharnvor