I don't like it. One Flechette Torpedo from an ARC-170 with a Tactician (or Gunner) and R3-A2 you have 3 stress. Also, it weakens Kanan's ability. Your idea just strengthens stress bots.

Also, I don't think Dengaroo really needs fixed. It is not overpowered. It is good, but it is no Triple U-Boats or TIE Phantoms.

So one extremely specific build is why this is a bad idea??? You saying that Dengaroo isn't OP, would have to be the craziest comment so far. This is exactly like TIE Phantoms. 1 ship soloing an entire list.... Dengaroo and Palp is easy mode for X Wing, why these two don't have range restrictions on their abilities is beyond me. The JM5K is probably the one ship that stress abuse matters not one iota. They need to fix how stress works in game.

And here I thought I was the sane one, not wanting to rewrite an entire game mechanic for one specific ship build ....

And it's not even 1 ship soloing an entire list... Go ahead take just Dengar against any other list, and he will lose... It's not just 1 ship, it's one ship supported by another very expensive ship.

And you know go back a month or two, and you have a whole lot of people saying Dengaroo is good but has had it's day.

Stress doesn't need to be fixed. Quit messing with things in the game. Nothing needs to be fixed beyond a few ships.

And it's not even 1 ship soloing an entire list... Go ahead take just Dengar against any other list, and he will lose... It's not just 1 ship, it's one ship supported by another very expensive ship.

And you know go back a month or two, and you have a whole lot of people saying Dengaroo is good but has had it's day.

You are correct, I should have said "one specific ship list build".

And it's not even 1 ship soloing an entire list... Go ahead take just Dengar against any other list, and he will lose... It's not just 1 ship, it's one ship supported by another very expensive ship.

And you know go back a month or two, and you have a whole lot of people saying Dengaroo is good but has had it's day.

You are correct, I should have said "one specific ship list build".

You did say that, I was agreeing with you, it was Archangelspiv that claimed it was a single ship.

Not the best idea.

Zuckuss is a bit undercosted when considering stress is not an issue like 2-3 crew builds (Dengar crew) or Manaroo. Otherwise it is fine.

So range restriction on Palp and Manaroo seems the best options but there is a problem. Range 3 is too small and besides Epic you do not have a Range 4 or Range 5 ruler. So theoretically you can restrict Emperor Palpatine but not Manaroo.

Not the best idea.

Zuckuss is a bit undercosted when considering stress is not an issue like 2-3 crew builds (Dengar crew) or Manaroo. Otherwise it is fine.

So range restriction on Palp and Manaroo seems the best options but there is a problem. Range 3 is too small and besides Epic you do not have a Range 4 or Range 5 ruler. So theoretically you can restrict Emperor Palpatine but not Manaroo.

The thing is what is the actual cost of Zuckuss in this build, 1pt + never being able to Barrel Roll + Locks out Reds + a proportion of the cost of Manaroo. If Zuckuss was hughely undercosted you would see him appear in more than 2 niche builds.

Stress doesn't need to be fixed. Quit messing with things in the game. Nothing needs to be fixed beyond a few ships.

This is my point. You said it better than me.

This would effect the entire game, not just the Dengaroo build. (Which I don't see as game breaking as others). This would effect everything that has to do with stress AND white maneuvers AND red maneuvers. Rage would become even more useless, it would kill Kanan's white maneuver capabilities, it would limit Y-Wings to straights, plus tons of other unforeseen consequences.

Lowering the power of a single card (in this case, Zuckuss) by changing a core mechanic of the game (though technically it would be introducing a new core mechanic I guess) is not how you "fix" something.

A change like this would affect several other cards and pilots to the point where they become far less useful or lose some of their unique identity in the game. The two that I can immediately think of would be Hera crew card and Tycho. If fix is going to be introduced into the game, it has to balance the card/pilot that is overpowered (though I disagree that Zuckuss is overpowered at all) without crippling other cards.

Why people keep trying to find a single cause and fix to a complex problem and interaction is beyond my understanding. The problem with dengaroo, uboats, palp aces and most other lists have/had multiple factors joining to become the problem in its sum. Factors and parts that might very well be quite ok on its own.

Just hard cap stacked stress at 5. Once you are 5 stress, you cannot take any action that would increase your stress any more. You cannot be dealt anymore stress.

Cards like Captain Yorr and Primed Thrusters still have effect up to 3.

Tycho can still push hard, you just need to actually consider when and how hard to push, and maybe, actually, consider dropping a point of stress.

Stress bots can still stack stress on someone to tie them up for many turns, but not get ridiculous.

Zuckuss can get a good first hit or two, then will be re-rolling 1-die for the rest of the game as long as the pilot remembers to clear a point down to 4. Still effective for 1 point.

Bonus: We won't need people to bring 20 sided die anymore to the X-wing table. Seriously, how friggin stupid is that.

Alright lets move it to 5 and saying that you cannot take any action which adds more stress after you have 5.

i think after a number you seriously cant reach without self-stress spamming (say, 6) you should start potentially taking damage.

And to all those saying manaroo is the problem not zuckuss you have clearly never had zuckuss reroll your 3evades into 3 blanks. If Dengar is stressed so much he cant turn right anymore its now insanely easy to completely dodge him and dive for manaroo. Zuckuss is powerful without manaroo, she just enables him to still get mods.

Also prevents him from using the same focus for every defense and every attack via overclocked. He doesnt have unhinged, meaning NONE of his right turns are an option after 3 stress. Any idea how massive that is?

Also getting 3 stress is pretty difficult if you arent self-stressing, so the odds of someone that isnt using one of these ALL THE STRESS shenanigans is unlikely. The most ive ever stressed a ship was 4, and that was with rebel captive + tactician on a LR'ing Tomax on the right side of Dengar, so he opted to not do a green move to try and tag me at range 1. Didnt work lol.

I like the 5cap idea. Cause seriously its so dumb to see someone bring D20s to an Xwing game....

i think after a number you seriously cant reach without self-stress spamming (say, 6) you should start potentially taking damage.

And to all those saying manaroo is the problem not zuckuss you have clearly never had zuckuss reroll your 3evades into 3 blanks. If Dengar is stressed so much he cant turn right anymore its now insanely easy to completely dodge him and dive for manaroo. Zuckuss is powerful without manaroo, she just enables him to still get mods.

Also prevents him from using the same focus for every defense and every attack via overclocked. He doesnt have unhinged, meaning NONE of his right turns are an option after 3 stress. Any idea how massive that is?

Also getting 3 stress is pretty difficult if you arent self-stressing, so the odds of someone that isnt using one of these ALL THE STRESS shenanigans is unlikely. The most ive ever stressed a ship was 4, and that was with rebel captive + tactician on a LR'ing Tomax on the right side of Dengar, so he opted to not do a green move to try and tag me at range 1. Didnt work lol.

I have faced Dengaroo a bunch, as it happens, and I still say Manaroo is the problem. If she were tethered to Dengar it would make the list a lot less problematic to kill, because it would be harder to guarantee Lone Wolf bonuses, and it would be impossible for Mana to just run away from the fight forever.

Mana's not just an issue with Dengar by the by, she's just as problematic with Fangs.

Zuckuss isn't the problem, the problem is the combination of PS9 and Lone Wolf and Zuckuss and Manaroo and OCR4 and Stim and Countermeasures all on what is already one of the most efficient ships in the game thanks to a 3-PWT double tap. The problem is being able to funnel 80+ points of your list into one hyperefficient ship.

Even the party bus isn't as problematic, because it at least has PS no higher than 7 with an EPT or 9 without, usually 2, and more importantly, can't turn round and can't fire backwards. And can't ascend to the same defensive heights because it only gets one die, two with CMs. And has a much less flexible dial. Zuckuss isn't good on any other ship than the YV and the JM5k.

Blocking multi-stress is a really bad way to fix a problem that multi-stress is a symptom of, rather than the cause.

I would be more in tune with a rule like: "if you have 3/4 or more stress you may not voluntarily take any effect that would give you more stress." And I think I lean more towards the 4 stress than the 3. I have flown the Stress hog, And its ability to hand out stress is incredible. But a rule like this makes stress matter again for EVERYONE. Then the Stress Hog is limited, Zuckass is limited. And you can still create pilots that ignore this rule. Pilots like Tycho don't suffer much at all from this rule. He can still use his ability. And a rules errata fixes the problem without having to address every card.

And to all those saying manaroo is the problem not zuckuss you have clearly never had zuckuss reroll your 3evades into 3 blanks. If Dengar is stressed so much he cant turn right anymore its now insanely easy to completely dodge him and dive for manaroo. Zuckuss is powerful without manaroo, she just enables him to still get mods.

Also prevents him from using the same focus for every defense and every attack via overclocked. He doesnt have unhinged, meaning NONE of his right turns are an option after 3 stress. Any idea how massive that is?

*Bold added.* And that's why Manaroo is the problem, where she can give full mods while completely out of the fight and nigh-untouchable because it's difficult to catch her.

For example, in the final, after doing that barrel roll, he would have done 0 damage even with Zuckuss' help without Manaroo's focus token. If anything, Manaroo + Overclocked R4 is the the problem, because it gives Dengaroo glitterstim effects.

And in the Party Bus, Zuckuss only really works because of Dengar for dice modification and 4LOM. There's a lot of times when Zuckuss would have done little if not for Dengar and/or 4LOM. I would know, as I fly Bossk and Tel a lot.

And to all those saying manaroo is the problem not zuckuss you have clearly never had zuckuss reroll your 3evades into 3 blanks.

Sarcasm aside, what you described has about 0.27 % chance of occurring. The odds of actually seeing that on the table are pretty low. You can't balance a card on a corner case.

New **** like this would happen after worlds...

A list had to win, its not like the tournament was dominated by Dengaroo lists, there was 3 in the top 16 only one of them made it to the top 4.

If you watched that final game what won it was the flying long before the stress was stacked up, several key barrel rolls in the first few moves are what won that game not stress stacking... Nand had 2x unanswered shots from dengar one of them at range one with modifiers to kill off Corran horn lined up due to barrel rolls before being stressed out.

The fact is Nand won not Dengaroo. (if a palp aces had won, this whole thread would be about palp...) Nand also outflew his opponent in his top 4 game after a disastrous first encounter he successfully blocked the falcon onto a rock 2 turns in a row or that game was long over for Dengaroo... Dengaroo won due to a very good pilot and threads like this are only cheapen the victory Nand earned at worlds by simply out flying his opponents.

it is a beatable list, as shown by all the people who beat Dengaroo at this years worlds... Is it strong? yes very but lots of things are.

If this was changed, what would be the next thing you would be complaining about?

And to all those saying manaroo is the problem not zuckuss you have clearly never had zuckuss reroll your 3evades into 3 blanks.

How is that a problem? 3 evades is a pretty unlikely result on 3 dice. In this case Zuckuss corrects the statistical anomaly. How is something that makes the game less about luck (and more about skill) a problem ?

Sarcasm aside, what you described has about 0.27 % chance of occurring. The odds of actually seeing that on the table are pretty low. You can't balance a card on a corner case.

This.

I have also re-rolled all my evades to evades thus making zuckass and his stress stacking a giant waste...should we buff the cards do to this corner case? hell no.

People love the fringe case where everything goes 100% as best as possible to use as arguments against something.

Oh yeah im not claiming zuckuss is auto-anti defense. Ive had people force me to reroll focus because i had a token and it went into an evade lol.

Ive had way more evades completely negated by him though.

New **** like this would happen after worlds...

People have been bitching about Zuckuss being broken for awhile. Worlds just exacerbated it.

(if a palp aces had won, this whole thread would be about palp...)

Do you...do you read these forums regularly? Palp has been getting bitched about forever.

If this was changed, what would be the next thing you would be complaining about?

Palp, like we were last week.

Stress doesn't need to be fixed. Quit messing with things in the game. Nothing needs to be fixed beyond a few ships.

I liked your post because you're a smart and very good 'threader' on this forum. However, I find it hard to believe you really think the current stress-er / anti-stress mechanics are great. I have two issues really, one might be a whine with no cheeze, but the other is logically solid I think.

1. Ships or personnel that can cause stress on top of stress. Most of us have a mother-in-law, but come on, she maxes at "stress" level and that's it. I think these ships or personnel need to be a one time this dis-guard kinda thing. This is my personal lament and is not really logical.

2. Ships or personnel that can just keep on stacking stress. I cannot see how massive piles of stress is logical. If one stress is equal to a ship not being able to focus, TL, barrel-roll, etc. Two should double that hindrance, like make it unable to shoot or defend during an attack phase. Heck, three times the stress that keeps a ship from acting should make it unable to move at all. Maybe four times the stress should make the life support systems start to fail. See the logic? The effects should be doubled with the first addition of stress and then tripled, and so-on and so-on....not simply put in a pile.

Am I an idiot?? ....sometimes I do wonder.

More complicated does not equal better.

I am not in favor of a change to the core rules concerning stress.

FFG is doing a good job of curbing over-stress with BMST, and I'm sure they'll have more they can do in the future.

Not sure if this is a good meta fix, but I really like it thematically. If you do manuvers that are phiscially staining on the pilot and ship, it makes sense that if you do it too much, you just need to take a second and fly smoothly.

I am not in favor of a change to the core rules concerning stress.

FFG is doing a good job of curbing over-stress with BMST, and I'm sure they'll have more they can do in the future.

In my opinion, BMST should'a been ships that have "2 stress or more."