I love this. The general consensus I am hearing is that the current Armada meta is Squadrons with flotillas. I am assuming this would also include some cap ships? HOLD THE PHONE!! This sounds like a balanced game. Almost as if the meta is you need to balance your lists.

And GW Marketing Strategy? Mikhael, I LOVE that!

Ex GW Gamer here with 3 armies no longer playable, (as in the armies were removed from the game before I left, not broken, GONE).

Edit add credit

I can tell you what the meta is, bomber formations. Which IMHO is a whole lot better than the squadron-less meta that Armada started out with.

Must...fight...contrarian...tendencies....

Love...B-Wings...

**** IT! SQUADRONLESS HERE I COME!

Well unfortunately B-wings are probably the worst bombers in Armada.

I can tell you what the meta is, bomber formations. Which IMHO is a whole lot better than the squadron-less meta that Armada started out with.

Must...fight...contrarian...tendencies....

Love...B-Wings...

**** IT! SQUADRONLESS HERE I COME!

Well unfortunately B-wings are probably the worst bombers in Armada.

Oh thank God someone smack talked my blessed B-Wings. I can come down off the ledge now.

Worst bombers in Armada?! What?! HERETIC! BURN HIM!

The biggest problem is the 2 speed and the 14 cost. You need something to get them moving faster in order to make them effective, which is also spending more points on them.

I love this. The general consensus I am hearing is that the current Armada meta is Squadrons with flotillas. I am assuming this would also include some cap ships? HOLD THE PHONE!! This sounds like a balanced game. Almost as if the meta is you need to balance your lists.

And GW Marketing Strategy? Mikhael, I LOVE that!

Ex GW Gamer here with 3 armies no longer playable, (as in the armies were removed from the game before I left, not broken, GONE).

Edit add credit

that's a bad assertion of the situation right there. Pick a fleet of cap ships with no flotillas and few squadrons against a fleet of 2 flotillas with BCC and heavy squadrons, which one wins? (let's ignore the obvious answer "the one with the better commanding skills har-har" that party crashers would often say). So far, impressions seem to suggest squadrons and flotillas are mandatory to remain competitive, although I doubt there are enough data to make that a fact by itself. Do cap ships benefit from enough AA capabilities or upgrades? That's my main concern right now, but that's me.

It's the same deal as with demolisher before. Why pick anything else than Demo when you can have demo? Demo makes it so you can shoot after moving, which is a huge advantage in this game.

Squadrons make it so you can attack without the concern of maneuvering. It's kind of the same issue to an extent. Before, you had to pick a fleet that had to sacrifice something in order to be able to activate a lot of squadrons. Now with flotillas, these sacrifices are less so felt.

I love this. The general consensus I am hearing is that the current Armada meta is Squadrons with flotillas. I am assuming this would also include some cap ships? HOLD THE PHONE!! This sounds like a balanced game. Almost as if the meta is you need to balance your lists.

And GW Marketing Strategy? Mikhael, I LOVE that!

Ex GW Gamer here with 3 armies no longer playable, (as in the armies were removed from the game before I left, not broken, GONE).

Edit add credit

that's a bad assertion of the situation right there. Pick a fleet of cap ships with no flotillas and few squadrons against a fleet of 2 flotillas with BCC and heavy squadrons, which one wins? So far, data seems to suggest squadrons and flotillas are mandatory to remain competitive, although I doubt there are enough data to justify that alone. Do cap ships benefit from enough AA capabilities or upgrades? That's my main concern right now.

It's the same deal as with demolisher before. Why pick anything else than Demo when you can have demo? Demo makes it so you can shoot after moving, which is a huge advantage in this game.

Squadrons make it so you can attack without the concern of maneuvering. It's kind of the same issue to an extent.

Agreed, rock beats scissors too much, please nerf.

I'm oversimplifying to make a point though, you can't cherry pick two types of fleet and claim its viable to draw some sort of conclusion regarding game balance based on the example you've decided to provide. I think you probably recognize this fact in a vacuum based on the second half of your post, but for some reason chose to leave it in there.

I'm not looking to dismiss your actual concern though, which I think is valid. Flotillas are an easy, sensible add. Moreover given how tournament points are calculated, and how expensive many of the most reliable counters are compared to the flotillas themselves. That said, I think Capt Jonus is going to hurt them, and the flechette ordinance upgrade is promising from what we know of it so far.

I love this. The general consensus I am hearing is that the current Armada meta is Squadrons with flotillas. I am assuming this would also include some cap ships? HOLD THE PHONE!! This sounds like a balanced game. Almost as if the meta is you need to balance your lists.

And GW Marketing Strategy? Mikhael, I LOVE that!

Ex GW Gamer here with 3 armies no longer playable, (as in the armies were removed from the game before I left, not broken, GONE).

Edit add credit

that's a bad assertion of the situation right there. Pick a fleet of cap ships with no flotillas and few squadrons against a fleet of 2 flotillas with BCC and heavy squadrons, which one wins? (let's ignore the obvious answer "the one with the better commanding skills har-har" that party crashers would often say). So far, impressions seem to suggest squadrons and flotillas are mandatory to remain competitive, although I doubt there are enough data to make that a fact by itself. Do cap ships benefit from enough AA capabilities or upgrades? That's my main concern right now, but that's me.

It's the same deal as with demolisher before. Why pick anything else than Demo when you can have demo? Demo makes it so you can shoot after moving, which is a huge advantage in this game.

Squadrons make it so you can attack without the concern of maneuvering. It's kind of the same issue to an extent. Before, you had to pick a fleet that had to sacrifice something in order to be able to activate a lot of squadrons. Now with flotillas, these sacrifices are less so felt.

You kinda defeat you're own argument here though. Demolisher turned out to be a non-factor at Worlds with regards to the top 4, so clearly there was a reason to take something other than Demo. Squadrons are hardly the end all be all. Flotillas are remarkably easy to kill so long as you bring the right tools. The only way to find out an alternative is to try something else. I've been struggling to find a fighter screen I like with my theoretical ISD, 3 triple Arquitens list, so I'm gonna give a pair of Raiders a shot. Is it crazy? Probably, but I'm gonna try all the same.

You kinda defeat you're own argument here though. Demolisher turned out to be a non-factor at Worlds with regards to the top 4, so clearly there was a reason to take something other than Demo. Squadrons are hardly the end all be all. Flotillas are remarkably easy to kill so long as you bring the right tools. The only way to find out an alternative is to try something else. I've been struggling to find a fighter screen I like with my theoretical ISD, 3 triple Arquitens list, so I'm gonna give a pair of Raiders a shot. Is it crazy? Probably, but I'm gonna try all the same.

I think bomber squadrons are still very strong in the meta, because investing in space superiority (SS) fighters is so risky. Even when you make that investment, bombers can be so slippery with intel ships out there to cover them.

You kinda defeat you're own argument here though. Demolisher turned out to be a non-factor at Worlds with regards to the top 4, so clearly there was a reason to take something other than Demo. Squadrons are hardly the end all be all. Flotillas are remarkably easy to kill so long as you bring the right tools. The only way to find out an alternative is to try something else. I've been struggling to find a fighter screen I like with my theoretical ISD, 3 triple Arquitens list, so I'm gonna give a pair of Raiders a shot. Is it crazy? Probably, but I'm gonna try all the same.

I think bomber squadrons are still very strong in the meta, because investing in space superiority (SS) fighters is so risky. Even when you make that investment, bombers can be so slippery with intel ships out there to cover them.

That's an excellent point. I won't argue against bombers being strong. Heck, I was championing them when they were "weak." This dilemma is the main reason I'm having such a hard time coming up with a space superiority squadron wing. I'm worried that it would end up just being a points sink if I ran into someone who isn't taking a lot of bombers. I just refuse to concede anything being a 'must have.' Just a few months ago we were doing this with Demolisher, yet here we are.

You kinda defeat you're own argument here though. Demolisher turned out to be a non-factor at Worlds with regards to the top 4, so clearly there was a reason to take something other than Demo. Squadrons are hardly the end all be all. Flotillas are remarkably easy to kill so long as you bring the right tools. The only way to find out an alternative is to try something else. I've been struggling to find a fighter screen I like with my theoretical ISD, 3 triple Arquitens list, so I'm gonna give a pair of Raiders a shot. Is it crazy? Probably, but I'm gonna try all the same.

I think bomber squadrons are still very strong in the meta, because investing in space superiority (SS) fighters is so risky. Even when you make that investment, bombers can be so slippery with intel ships out there to cover them.

That's an excellent point. I won't argue against bombers being strong. Heck, I was championing them when they were "weak." This dilemma is the main reason I'm having such a hard time coming up with a space superiority squadron wing. I'm worried that it would end up just being a points sink if I ran into someone who isn't taking a lot of bombers. I just refuse to concede anything being a 'must have.' Just a few months ago we were doing this with Demolisher, yet here we are.

Hehe, nowadays when I bring bombers, I feel I have to reaffirm Portland's status as a hipster city by telling people I was into TIE Bombers before it was cool.

That's really *the* meta question: how much SS to bring, and how to build it so that it's effective. I would brainstorm this right now, but I don't want to give people ideas for Saturday (Regionals @ Vancouver, WA).

Good post. Thank you for your insights and for generating some splendid discussion. Here are a few thoughts on the subject of the metagame.

Metagame is simply the "game within the game." Its the mental process by which a person says, "everyone else seems to be taking X, so I'll either also take X because it is extremely powerful or I'll take Y because it directly counters it." Anytime you do that, you are engaging in the metagame. Now, to be fair to the OP, he does acknowledge that the meta is as defined as in X-wing, which I think seems fair. There is just a lot of good variety between lists, and all it takes is a couple of months before people learn how to counter particularly strong combos. DeMSU had fallen out by the end of the season 2 regional season. If we're going to see lists with 3 Flotillas and lots of squads do well, then people will start bringing units that can hunt flotillas (minimally), and find alternatives for handling the squadron game (maximally).

What worlds gives us is a good glimpse of what seems to be working and what is rising to the top. Flotillas and squads seemed to be a real theme, even if they were handled very differently from list to list. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the emerging meta post-worlds steps in the direction of the better lists. We're probably going to get a month or two of regionals before Wave 5 hits, so it will be interesting to see what people bring and what makes the top-4 in smaller events or top-8 in larger events.

Lol is that supposed to be me?

I will say this about the meta. Squadrons aside, i think having a large base ship is very disadvantage to a fleet at the moment.

This is because they are a massive point sink and means less ship activations and sometimes also cuts into your squadron budget. Keeping them alive vs multiple small units like TRC90s is a mission and a half, we might destroy 1-2 of the smaller ships but losing a kitted out ISD/MC80 means you've lost in that trade.

It would seem that this evident in the top placer lists around the World as well where Large base ships were present but did not place well including

Top 4 Worlds

Top 5 Australian nationals

1st place Gencon

1st place German Champs

1st place Nova

The last two vassal tournament winners

Just my opinion of course

I love this. The general consensus I am hearing is that the current Armada meta is Squadrons with flotillas. I am assuming this would also include some cap ships? HOLD THE PHONE!! This sounds like a balanced game. Almost as if the meta is you need to balance your lists.

And GW Marketing Strategy? Mikhael, I LOVE that!

Ex GW Gamer here with 3 armies no longer playable, (as in the armies were removed from the game before I left, not broken, GONE).

Edit add credit

that's a bad assertion of the situation right there. Pick a fleet of cap ships with no flotillas and few squadrons against a fleet of 2 flotillas with BCC and heavy squadrons, which one wins? (let's ignore the obvious answer "the one with the better commanding skills har-har" that party crashers would often say). So far, impressions seem to suggest squadrons and flotillas are mandatory to remain competitive, although I doubt there are enough data to make that a fact by itself. Do cap ships benefit from enough AA capabilities or upgrades? That's my main concern right now, but that's me.

It's the same deal as with demolisher before. Why pick anything else than Demo when you can have demo? Demo makes it so you can shoot after moving, which is a huge advantage in this game.

Squadrons make it so you can attack without the concern of maneuvering. It's kind of the same issue to an extent. Before, you had to pick a fleet that had to sacrifice something in order to be able to activate a lot of squadrons. Now with flotillas, these sacrifices are less so felt.

You kinda defeat you're own argument here though. Demolisher turned out to be a non-factor at Worlds with regards to the top 4, so clearly there was a reason to take something other than Demo. Squadrons are hardly the end all be all. Flotillas are remarkably easy to kill so long as you bring the right tools. The only way to find out an alternative is to try something else. I've been struggling to find a fighter screen I like with my theoretical ISD, 3 triple Arquitens list, so I'm gonna give a pair of Raiders a shot. Is it crazy? Probably, but I'm gonna try all the same.

Yes, I defeated my own argument on purpose because I think we need more data before drawing hasty conclusions, but I still gave my impressions. As for my point about Demo, I'm referring to Wave 2 and before, although I do not remember how Demo fared in last year's worlds, I do remember every Imperial player had a Demo.

, although I do not remember how Demo fared in last year's worlds,

It Lost.

, although I do not remember how Demo fared in last year's worlds,

It Lost.

And it wasn't even close.

, although I do not remember how Demo fared in last year's worlds,

It Lost.

And it wasn't even close.

Demo is UP and needs a buff.

, although I do not remember how Demo fared in last year's worlds,

It Lost.

And it wasn't even close.

Demo is UP and needs a buff.

You don't have a junior officer who can go outside and start rubbing?

Demo is UP and needs a buff.

You don't have a junior officer who can go outside and start rubbing?

Yes, I'm just waiting for one of them to 'fail' me.

It would seem that this evident in the top placer lists around the World as well where Large base ships were present but did not place well including

Top 4 Worlds

Top 5 Australian nationals

1st place Gencon

1st place German Champs

1st place Nova

The last two vassal tournament winners

Just my opinion of course

For the record I had an mc80 in my vassal tourney winning knockout stages fleet.

I personally think it is great to see a lot of squadrons. It is Star Wars after all...without squads it would feel empty!

Plus, there is a lot of variation within that group. Sure there are many bomber lists, but there are different types of bombers--TB Rhymer balls, Fireballs, Yavaris Bs, Scurrgs, now Ywings --plus YT2400/awing spam lists, Rieekan aces, etc. YV666 may be the only model I haven't seen in a while.

I do wish we would see more large and medium ships, though!

I love this. The general consensus I am hearing is that the current Armada meta is Squadrons with flotillas. I am assuming this would also include some cap ships? HOLD THE PHONE!! This sounds like a balanced game. Almost as if the meta is you need to balance your lists.

And GW Marketing Strategy? Mikhael, I LOVE that!

Ex GW Gamer here with 3 armies no longer playable, (as in the armies were removed from the game before I left, not broken, GONE).

Edit add credit

that's a bad assertion of the situation right there. Pick a fleet of cap ships with no flotillas and few squadrons against a fleet of 2 flotillas with BCC and heavy squadrons, which one wins? (let's ignore the obvious answer "the one with the better commanding skills har-har" that party crashers would often say). So far, impressions seem to suggest squadrons and flotillas are mandatory to remain competitive, although I doubt there are enough data to make that a fact by itself. Do cap ships benefit from enough AA capabilities or upgrades? That's my main concern right now, but that's me.

It's the same deal as with demolisher before. Why pick anything else than Demo when you can have demo? Demo makes it so you can shoot after moving, which is a huge advantage in this game.

Squadrons make it so you can attack without the concern of maneuvering. It's kind of the same issue to an extent. Before, you had to pick a fleet that had to sacrifice something in order to be able to activate a lot of squadrons. Now with flotillas, these sacrifices are less so felt.

You kinda defeat you're own argument here though. Demolisher turned out to be a non-factor at Worlds with regards to the top 4, so clearly there was a reason to take something other than Demo. Squadrons are hardly the end all be all. Flotillas are remarkably easy to kill so long as you bring the right tools. The only way to find out an alternative is to try something else. I've been struggling to find a fighter screen I like with my theoretical ISD, 3 triple Arquitens list, so I'm gonna give a pair of Raiders a shot. Is it crazy? Probably, but I'm gonna try all the same.

Thing about screen if you look at the top list is that it wasn't just a pure bomber formation otherwise we might have seen a rhymer ball, but it was a bomber formation with escorts with the sole purpose of defeating the fighter screen. intel and counter along with escort has proven to be a great escort. I still stand by my claim while Imperials might have the best bombers they lack the escorts to make them unstoppable.

, although I do not remember how Demo fared in last year's worlds,

It Lost.

The Demolosher is much like a FOO strategy. For more information see below.