I was reading one of the many threads on the TIE/sf and I came across a post lamenting the state of the TIE phantom. I was surprised: the TIE phantom's never been a bad ship in the mechanical sense (whether it was bad for making a mess of the Wave 4 and 5 metagames with its incredible power is another question.) But it's also a ship that's dropped off the radar and I got to wondering why. The conclusios I reached were that firstly it ceased to be a forgiving "easy win" after the decloak change, Soontir took its place as the master of not being shot when Autothrusters came out and finally that everyone was simply bored of it.

As a result the TIE phantom has been mostly forgotten for the last few waves and any synergies with new upgrades haven't been fully explored.

The build challenge is this:

Come up with either the most powerful TIE phantom build you can using all the new tools available or the wackiest one that flies and plays in a completely different way to the established norm.

Include any support ships your TIE phantom build needs to work.

At least until very recently the Phantom was still very prevalent in several regions. It seemed liked every cut at all the manor SoCal tournament had Phantoms in them.

Whisper + VI + Kallus + ACD + FCS

Omeg Leader + Juke + Comms Relay

OGP + Palp

That's 96 points so it leaves some room for customization and an initiative bid (Yorr or Reinforced Deflectors semed common).

The strongest build, Buzzsaw Whisper, has not changed.

They didn't do well in the quad TLT meta. I took Whisper to last year's MA regional and made top 16, it's a solid ship and was decent against Triple Jumps.

Now it's back to being in the endangered list, since TLTs will be making a resurgence.

The reason why they weren't seen terribly often is that they are still difficult to fly well, and buck the norms players have come accustomed to, when maneuvering their ships.

Lots of TLT makes the Phantom nervous, and you have to sacrifice a lot of offense with FCS to get a sensor jammer.

Whisper with SJ, Kallus, VI, ACD is tanky.

With TLT's coming back with a vengeance, Sensor Jammer is necessary on phantoms. I've always preferred Echo to Whisper, and with so many mid PS defenders in the meta, the lower PS of Echo isn't as much of a hindrance as it used to be. My favourite phantom build is:

Echo with Lone Wolf, Sensor Jammer, ACD and kallus

Omega Leader with Juke and Comm Relay

Yorr with Palpatine

In this meta, OL shuts down so much, including the token stack of X7 defenders which are everywhere. Her only real struggle is counter measures and Black One. Echo also eats defenders alive by forcing them to turn, rather than k turn forever, and she has the punch to get through their defences. Echo also mitigates 3 damage per turn against one ship with higher PS. Yorr takes care of stress control if need be.

the TIE phantom's never been a bad ship in the mechanical sense

If by being bad mechanically means Cloaking wasn't nerfed, and you're not "forced" to take VI and adv. cloak then no, the Phantom was never bad mechanically..

Depending o how many points Lightened Frame turns out to be, we may start seeing triple buzzsaw phantoms

I've always been a fan of the phantom. For me the issue comes from scum and Zuckuss. A Bossk with VI and homing will delete a cloaked and tokened Whisper in one volly. N'Dru threatens the same as well. Losing nearly half of your list in one missile volly without having the opportunity to shoot results in a very negative play experience. TLT and PWT also take away their biggest advantage - arc dodging. Party busses and the new lancer are pretty scary too. Over all, phantoms really suffer in a meta focused on modifying reds and negating greens. Each wave has been skewing that way a little further too, which is why I think you see phantoms less and less.

That being said, I'm a huge fan of the little Sigma. I usually run one to counter PTL aces with FCS, Stygium, and captive. If you want the best blocker in the game, run one with enhanced scopes, stygium, and intel. They fly totally differently than their high PS brothers and cost as much as a cheap ace, but if you play them well they can one-on-one almost any ace via stress controle or intel arc-dodging.

If you bring a phantom I think it needs to be relatively self-sufficient. I've been wanting to try some shenanigans with Whisper or Echo rocking juke and Stygium. 2 dice at R3 with focus and evade can be still be tanky so long as you're only getting shot from one gun.

I got into the game at the start of Wave 5, and never played Phantoms. In fact I can't think of a single time I used a Phantom in a list other than playing against myself to test out new Rebel ships on my kitchen table. The ship just never appealed to me, and I was far more interested in trying to come up with innovative counters to it than joining the dark side of flying super meta lists.

Now I'm much more intrigued by Imperials than I ever was during its reign.

But I'm still not enamored of trying the Phantom aces.

That said, are there any creative builds for flying Phantom generics? Lower cost options to function more as filler with an early 4/5 dice punch? (Before they die.)

@Test Pilot:

You answered my question as I was tying it. I like your Sigma/Captive build!

Try em with advanced sensors....for extra squirreliness

I think one of the best/strongest builds is still:

Whisper

VI, Intel Agent, FCS, ACD

Echo, collision detector, vi, rec spec, acd. Be anywhere, anytime

At least until very recently the Phantom was still very prevalent in several regions. It seemed liked every cut at all the manor SoCal tournament had Phantoms in them.

Whisper + VI + Kallus + ACD + FCS

Omeg Leader + Juke + Comms Relay

OGP + Palp

That's 96 points so it leaves some room for customization and an initiative bid (Yorr or Reinforced Deflectors semed common).

With Yorr, I think that's called the Mynoch Special. Nice build!

Echo, collision detector, vi, rec spec, acd. Be anywhere, anytime

That's actually the build i run. With debris clouds and collision detector, you dial in a green, run over a debris cloud and then clear the stress with the green. At least that's how we handle it. It's even more fun with an Intel Agent, where you can see where you want to decloak. I also like to run something you can't ignore to give Echo some cover.

So, building on this, here is a list idea.

Captain Oicunn

Intel Agent

Echo

VI

Collision Detector

RecSpec

ACD

Fill it in with any upgrades and a filler ship of choice, i prefer Wampa.

Basically you fly Oicunn straight at your opponent's ships, and ram them when possible. This takes your opponent's focus off Echo, and you use the Intel Agent from the Deci to help plan your decloaks.

Maybe now that we have the TLT and Partybus shenanigans, FFG should resend their nerf of the Phantom! I mean, I just started playing this year, and I haven't got the chance to run an OP Phantom yet....stink!

3 x sigma, IA, SPA, CD

Backstabber

Works wonders.

Maybe now that we have the TLT and Partybus shenanigans, FFG should resend their nerf of the Phantom! I mean, I just started playing this year, and I haven't got the chance to run an OP Phantom yet....stink!

Awful idea. The nerf was perfect. They are actually fun to play and play against now. And imo pretty perfectly balanced as well...

I think both whisper and echo have a place in current meta as well. Whisper (especially buzzsaw) is a pretty good counter to defenders, being able to dodge them better than most other things and with the firepower to actualy push through. Whisper is also a solid pick vs the resurging rebel regen. I think Whisper is set for a return to the tables.

Maybe now that we have the TLT and Partybus shenanigans, FFG should resend their nerf of the Phantom! I mean, I just started playing this year, and I haven't got the chance to run an OP Phantom yet....stink!

Awful idea. The nerf was perfect. They are actually fun to play and play against now. And imo pretty perfectly balanced as well...

I think both whisper and echo have a place in current meta as well. Whisper (especially buzzsaw) is a pretty good counter to defenders, being able to dodge them better than most other things and with the firepower to actualy push through. Whisper is also a solid pick vs the resurging rebel regen. I think Whisper is set for a return to the tables.

I have lots of "awful ideas", don't get me going haha! What is a buzz-saw Whisper build anyway?

Wacky phantom: Sigma with Sensor Jammer, Stealth Device, and Rebel Captive.

Cloak and stay cloaked until the end game. Fly into the middle of things. People can't help but shoot at a phantom when they have a chance, and this one is tough to damage. Alternate version substitutes Mara Jade for Rebel Captive.

Maybe now that we have the TLT and Partybus shenanigans, FFG should resend their nerf of the Phantom! I mean, I just started playing this year, and I haven't got the chance to run an OP Phantom yet....stink!

Awful idea. The nerf was perfect. They are actually fun to play and play against now. And imo pretty perfectly balanced as well...

I think both whisper and echo have a place in current meta as well. Whisper (especially buzzsaw) is a pretty good counter to defenders, being able to dodge them better than most other things and with the firepower to actualy push through. Whisper is also a solid pick vs the resurging rebel regen. I think Whisper is set for a return to the tables.

I have lots of "awful ideas", don't get me going haha! What is a buzz-saw Whisper build anyway?

Whisper, Gunner, VI, FCS and ACD. Take evade action, fire, get TL. Fire again with gunner. Do some damage. Get a focus and cloak to go with the evade for defense.

Personally i think there are 2 main ways to build phantom aces. The buzzsaw, which has been explained, or the defensive builds (RecSpec, sensor jammer, etc) which just try to make them impossible to hit. Personally, i have found movement based phantoms fun too. This is best on echo, because of the fancy decloak. So, with collision detector, and an Intelligence agent somewhere in your list, you can be in the most insane spots, even without using a barrel roll . It's so much fun to play.

I'm messing with ideas for Phantom generics.

The PS5 Shadow with SPA and FCS starts at 31 points before choosing crew, or 62 for a pair.

How about adding Vessery, x7, MkII, and Adaptability to go down to matching PS5 with the Shadows. That's 34 points.

So 96 points total, with 4 points to pick Phantom crew. Let one be Intel Agent (1point) and then I'm partial to a mini-AWACS utility, with Fleet Officer (3points) to finish out the list.

This gives you three ships of equal PS, and action economy that can give all three ships an evade, a focus (or two), TL and repositioning ability with foreknowledge of one enemy ship's move.

Suddenly I want to try Phantoms again.

Echo, collision detector, vi, rec spec, acd. Be anywhere, anytime

That's actually the build i run. With debris clouds and collision detector, you dial in a green, run over a debris cloud and then clear the stress with the green.

If you are using your maneuver to hit the debris then you would recieve the stress after your green maneuver clears stress. It you are decloaking through the debris then performing green maneuver later in the round would clear it.

I'm not sure which of those you are describing.

Maybe now that we have the TLT and Partybus shenanigans, FFG should resend their nerf of the Phantom! I mean, I just started playing this year, and I haven't got the chance to run an OP Phantom yet....stink!

Awful idea. The nerf was perfect. They are actually fun to play and play against now. And imo pretty perfectly balanced as well...

I think both whisper and echo have a place in current meta as well. Whisper (especially buzzsaw) is a pretty good counter to defenders, being able to dodge them better than most other things and with the firepower to actualy push through. Whisper is also a solid pick vs the resurging rebel regen. I think Whisper is set for a return to the tables.

I have lots of "awful ideas", don't get me going haha! What is a buzz-saw Whisper build anyway?

Not to prod the cow too much, but un-nerfing the Phantom imo is the right choice nowadays. The game has matured beyond being very easy for pre-nerf Phantom.