i dont put blue dice in the firing arcs because i believe there associated with ion cannons, which i dont think the venator had.

Revenge of the Sith incredible cross-sections puts the Venator's firepower at 8 Heavy turbolaser turrets, 2 Medium dual turbolaser cannons, 52 Point-Defense laser cannons, 4 Proton Torpedo Tubes and 6 Tractor Beam Projectors.

28 minutes ago, Zach1996 said:

i dont put blue dice in the firing arcs because i believe there associated with ion cannons, which i dont think the venator had.

Blue dice are associated with ion cannons, it is true, but not exclusively so. They also appear to be associated with smaller laser cannons, as the MC30 torpedo frigate shows.

So...you might say that all ion cannons are blue dice. But not all blue dice are ion cannons.

This is tangential to whether or not the Venator should have blue dice, of course.

I like the idea of a Venator but... it needs to be more, speed 2, Interdictor-ish at -1 or 2 for hull/shields/guns, 4 upgrade options

right now the proposals seem more Mary Sue/GM pet ship than something balanced and ready for gameplay

Would probably be a 90ish point large ship. 2 reds and a blue for the front and 2 reds and 3 blue for sides. 2 red rear. Blue AS. Shields 3 front and side. 2 rear.

3 command, 4 squadron, 4 engineering. Officer, 2 offensive slots, support teams, Turbolaser.

2 speed similar to a VSD. No need to go fast because of boosted comms and relay or Centicore.

I stand by the old designs as thematic and interesting, though I could be convinced that knocking a die off the front and kicking the cost up a touch could be warranted, especially with the advent of Jerjerrod. When we first went to commission the ship, we tried out several armament layouts similar to what has been the counter-proposal, and found it uninteresting and a poor synergy with other space triangles. Since the only time a Venator was seen to enter broadside combat was at point-blank range (at Invisible Hand 's immediate expense), we reasoned that fifty-six point defense cannon massed plus that formidable main battery had to be worth something. We also noted, despite all logical analysis of the Venator class hull, the vast majority of the long-range work shown on screen (mostly TCW) was done bow on to the target. So we selected a narrow front arc with reds and blues for closing action, and a powerful but short-ranged broadside for finishing work.

Further, we noted that the Venator , in the old canon, was noted as a relatively fast ship, capable of effectively chasing blockade runners. We decided that powerful battlewagon, carrier, AND good maneuverability was too much, so the ship handles like a drunken Liberty . And unlike the Rebels, the GAR had no way to easily upgrade the ship's agility. (General Kenobi and defense tokens is another matter.) Upgrades are also fairly light on options, relatively to other large centerpiece ships. We had no interest in rehashing the Victory (which we had already done anyway), so we set out to create a new ship.

Finally, for the naysayers, a couple caveats, having actually playtested the variant I laid out. First, it's one of the most fun ships I've ever had to fly. It fits how I want to fly Angry Pizza Wedges. Probably deserves a point tax just for that, but that's that. Second, it has not been tested with a full Imperial squadron wing, so if someone would offer to do that and report back, I personally would appreciate it. Third, I firmly believe even Rebel Liberty players are giving that ship too much credit for its actual combat power. It is no match for an Imperial class unit, except as a dedicated carrier, and the double brace/redirect setup means the heavy shielding is worth less than it appears (the Liberty by contrast doesn't bother with the fiction that the redirect goes somewhere useful). Fourth and finally, I find the continuing references to the Victory class repetitive, and frankly indicative of somewhat limited imagination. Sure, we could try to build a better Victory . Or we can acknowledge that they are different ships intended for different roles emerging from different approaches to the end of the Republic in the EU. By all means, develop your own ideas and test them. But test that one too. It was a stroke of genius on the part of our own DiabloAzul, and I think after flying it yourselves, you may be swayed.

I'm betting they'll go a bit differently with releases. Let's say they add the Quasar Fire Class Cruiser Carrier since it's been cannon-ized from Rebels. Instead of standard release of two versions plus titles and such, they go 1 ship, and 2 separate cards. One for Imperials, the other for Rebels. 1 new admiral per, 1 new title for each faction.

Or perhaps the above with a Venator or Dreadnaught (not yet re-cannon-ized).

I'm pretty sure eventually they'll take this route every other wave. I think they realize they can't do a third faction like they did for XX-Wing, which is why we got the Scum release. I think that tested the community's acceptance of getting 2 factions in 1 package. Given that it's the most commonly sold out blister on Amazon, I'd wager a bet they studied the data for a few months and chose their design path off of it.

For us dual faction players, it would be awesome since 1 ship can be used by both. For specific ship preferring single faction folks, I imagine it would not be well received.

Another option would be an Escort carrier for the Empire with a statline like the GR-75's but unarmed and a converted transport for the rebels with a cost and stat line like the Gozanti's.

2 minutes ago, Sygnetix said:

I'm betting they'll go a bit differently with releases. Let's say they add the Quasar Fire Class Cruiser Carrier since it's been cannon-ized from Rebels. Instead of standard release of two versions plus titles and such, they go 1 ship, and 2 separate cards. One for Imperials, the other for Rebels. 1 new admiral per, 1 new title for each faction.
(...)
For us dual faction players, it would be awesome since 1 ship can be used by both. For specific ship preferring single faction folks, I imagine it would not be well received.
(...)

You see, that's sensible and efficient.

Which is why they wouldn't do it.

Why develop a pack that can be sold to a Player Once?

Versus, Have Two Copies of the Quasar - one Imperial, One Rebel. They each have their respective team's admiral, but otherwise, the remainder of the Upgrades are unique to each pack, and have uses and desires for both sides to use .

That way, Imperial Only players want to buy one of each.

Rebel only players want to buy One of Each.

Dual Faction Players want to buy One of Each.

Ergo, you're selling 2 to everyone, rather than 1 to everyone... Just good business.

Which, of course, sucks for everyone but them......

True. I still get the feeling this is coming. Either that, or they'll make up some TIE variants and start pushing out squadrons of Uglies for the Rebels. I'd love to see a Y-TIE xD

On 11/3/2016 at 6:04 PM, Crabbok said:

So the two main ships that we certainly expect to see from Rebels, would be the Quasar and the Hammerhead. For purposes of gameplay, I'd expect the Hammerheads to obviously be rebel, but the Quasar to be Imperial (Even though it's stolen by rebels in the show). But would wave 6 be only a 2 ship wave?

...

And another question - What commanders are we likely to still see? I don't think we'll see Thrawn until we get a better glimpse of the ships from the 7th fleet, so I think it's more likely we might see some familiar faces like Leia and Lando as commanders, and I think we could also see Sloan for the Imperials since she's been in several books now, - but I also remember that each time we DON'T see Piett, it's more likely that we get an SSD!

Well, I think the prediction is right overall - it's going to be the Quasar-Fire-carrier (Empire) and Hammerhead Corvette (Rebel), but...

...I think you are incorrect about the size of the wave. FFG knew 'Rogue One' was coming, and had some details about it, but won't have had enough for the big ships.

So I think we'll get a pair of two-ship waves, very close together, the wave waves 3 and 4 arrived basically on top of each other.

• Wave 6: Imperial Light Carrier + Rebel Hammerhead Corvette
• Wave 7: Rebel MC75 ( Profundity ) + Imperial ... something . Venator, maybe. Would LOVE an ISD-I, but...whatever. Hopefully not the lazily-designed- Resurgent -class.

As to commanders...you are TOTALLY correct on that, in that this is really the interesting question.

At a guess? I bet, with the Imperial Light Carrier, we get the Inquisitor. We've seen him in a command-like role, and as I doubt the TIE Advanced Prototype is coming to the game (not really enough variation in stats for it to fit), the only way he'd appear is as a commander or crew. My bet is commander...either way, he'll be in the Light Carrier (even though, yes, he was dead before the Rebels ran into it... details! )

For the Rebel Hammerhead - trickier on that one. Possibly Ryder Azadi (the deposed Governor of Lothal?)

Thrawn is, unquestionably, coming, but...in what? Ditto Admiral Piett... OBVIOUSLY we are going to get him, but...in what? (IMHO, it's gotta be the SSD - I think this is where you were going with your comment, too. SWM20 is probably the SSD, and FFG hasn't got it 'working' right in the game, yet. Until they do, it waits, and he waits - they are tied too closely together to be different releases). Either way, I don't think either of these guys are likely for wave 6.

20 minutes ago, Sygnetix said:

True. I still get the feeling this is coming. Either that, or they'll make up some TIE variants and start pushing out squadrons of Uglies for the Rebels. I'd love to see a Y-TIE xD

you mean a DIE-Wing? XP

i dont think the Quazar or venator will be wave 6, fighters are already too much of the meta, im betting acclimator and hammerhead

that is a really cool idea, switch up the meta a bit. i wonder what the acclamator would do, i could see an ion cannon/ordinence heavy frontal tanky support ship.

I'd say Liberty is to Star Destroyer as Venator is to Home One.

I think the Venator should be the Empires large base side arc red dice slow carrier. Id give it a similar speed and armament (maybe one less red die) to the home one with a little less shield and one more squadron.

Okay, just going on a limb here.

Imperials: Maybe something like an old Venator-class Star Destroyer. I mean those things from the Clone Wars aren't just going to go anywhere, and not all of them might be retrofitted.

Rebels: No clue. I'm not too familiar with the Rebel ships in Legends.

There's also a chance that Rebels (the tv-series) might throw something in. Like a new class of Star Destroyer or a new Rebel frigate. I just hope I can get Thrawn as an admiral and a suitable mind-gamey ability. Like me getting to check a ship's bottom command dial within short-long range and deciding a new command instead. Friends and foes alike. Slap a 40 point cost on it and start rusing your rebel playthings.

1 hour ago, Arkalid said:

Okay, just going on a limb here.

Imperials: Maybe something like an old Venator-class Star Destroyer. I mean those things from the Clone Wars aren't just going to go anywhere, and not all of them might be retrofitted.

Rebels: No clue. I'm not too familiar with the Rebel ships in Legends.

There's also a chance that Rebels (the tv-series) might throw something in. Like a new class of Star Destroyer or a new Rebel frigate. I just hope I can get Thrawn as an admiral and a suitable mind-gamey ability. Like me getting to check a ship's bottom command dial within short-long range and deciding a new command instead. Friends and foes alike. Slap a 40 point cost on it and start rusing your rebel playthings.

How would that interact with single command ships that have already activated?

For a Venator , I suggest starting with an MC-80 Command Cruiser , and work your way down, while adjusting it to feel more like an Imperial ship, and also like an "older" or "out of date" ship. Keep it feeling "bigger" and "tougher" than the ILC, though (which may be tough - the Arquitens is pretty fantastic for its points).

• I'd say you should lean on the blue dice for its batteries, and if you want to make sure it doesn't feel like "ion cannons", don't give them the Ion upgrade slot (and do include a Turbolaser slot).
• I think a balanced take on it (on a large base) is going to be both more expensive, and less shooty, than people are wanting/expecting. If its "big" side-arc shots are only slightly better than (or the same as) an ISD's side arcs, it can still be a great ship.
• Go ahead and give it Squadron 5 - if you're going to make a large-base, "out of date" (to the Empire, strategically) ship, give it a unique spot and playstyle. Give it an appropriately high cost though .
• Two Offensive Retrofit slots. Yes, this means it can get to Long-range, 6 squadron commands (7 with token). No, I don't think that's a problem, if you keep the cost of the ship high .
• From the MC-80 CC base, knock off some defense tokens. We want it to feel old , and out of place. Take away the Contain - the things were (if I remember correctly) notoriously prone to damage. Maybe switch one of the Redirects out for a second Brace (the thing is bulky and solid; it also feels more Imperial)?

2 hours ago, Arkalid said:

There's also a chance that Rebels (the tv-series) might throw something in. Like a new class of Star Destroyer or a new Rebel frigate. I just hope I can get Thrawn as an admiral and a suitable mind-gamey ability. Like me getting to check a ship's bottom command dial within short-long range and deciding a new command instead. Friends and foes alike. Slap a 40 point cost on it and start rusing your rebel playthings.

I still think that Thrawn is the perfect place to introduce something to let you play around with Activations, Deployments, or Initiative.

Something like:

• Exhaust instead of activating a ship on your turn.
• Exhaust and spend a command token to activate two ships on your turn.

Is the Venator THAT outdated though? Only 19 years separate the prequels from the original movies. Most military equipment nowadays last for 30 years or more and considering the technology in Star Wars seems to have stagnated a bit (lightsabers and blasters have been used for hundred if not thousand of years), I don't see how the Venator is "outdated". It just fills a different role for what was needed at the time.

Yeah, probably not. Seems like its how the Empire treats them, but I think that's mostly a "cult of the new" and dedication to looking just the best , rather than a statement on effectiveness.

Still, I think it could give an interesting mechanical "feel", and also make sure that it doesn't step all over the toes of the Empire's more "prominent" ships, by keeping it in mind.

The Venator seems to be the "Gunboat" of the Armada forum. Though I suspect we'll see more Rebels, and possibly some Rogue One, themed releases in the coming waves I hope to see the Venator.

I'd rather have an Acclamator, but I see the Venator as more likely. So while I'm not likely to get a Venator myself, I hope to see it as it could mean the Acclamator.

Just now, Greatfrito said:

Yeah, probably not. Seems like its how the Empire treats them, but I think that's mostly a "cult of the new" and dedication to looking just the best , rather than a statement on effectiveness.

Still, I think it could give an interesting mechanical "feel", and also make sure that it doesn't step all over the toes of the Empire's more "prominent" ships, by keeping it in mind.

how does the empire treat the Venators? I don't know enough about the lore to make a statement. I think the reason we don't see Venators in the original movies is because well, they weren't invented back then.

I believe the current "canon" is only that the Empire considered it an "older generation model", and phased it out for the ISD, which they considered its modern replacement.

Wookiepedia says we've still seen at least one after the Battle of Yavin , though. So "phased out", but not decommissioned.

Just now, Greatfrito said:

I believe the current "canon" is only that the Empire considered it an "older generation model", and phased it out for the ISD, which they considered its modern replacement.

Wookiepedia says we've still seen at least one after the Battle of Yavin , though. So "phased out", but not decommissioned.

ah, I see. In all honesty, I think they decided to go with that statement only to justify why they were no Venators during the original movies...

It's like, an easy way out, ya know.

Of course, but what's the other option...

..... Have George Lucas make ANOTHER edition with MORE edits... This time, Turning classic ISDs into Ventators at times?

2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Of course, but what's the other option...

..... Have George Lucas make ANOTHER edition with MORE edits... This time, Turning classic ISDs into Ventators at times?

what, you didn't appreciate having Hayden Christiansen as a force ghost?