Hello! Long time lurker, new time poster here. I've played x-wing for about a year now and was immediately drawn toward the Kihraxz and Talonbane so I've tried to incorporate him into most of my lists that can suite an ace with decent success. Now with wave 9 out and another natural ace in Fenn Rau I wanted to play a list focused on both of them, with Manaroo as expendable support. I've played one variant of the list once when the wave came out (and since then I've been trying other lists with the new ships) with pretty good success but there is always some things I need to cut to make it work, and that's where I've got problems deciding which I like most...

This is the list in it's current state:

98/100

Talonbane Cobra - 33(28)

Crack Shot - 1

Vectored Thrusters - 2

Glitterstim - 2

Fenn Rau - 30(28)

Fearlessness - 1

Protector Title - 1

Manaroo - 35(27)

Adaptability - 0 (Likely decrease to both prevent more ships from causing her to bump, but also to make her a better blocker)

Recon Spec - 3

Feedback Array - 2

R5-P8 - 3

The things I want to fit into the list are Engine Upgrade for Talonbane, as I find Vectored Thrusters not as good on him (But of course this depends on the situation... But for initial engagements boost has been better than barrel roll in my experience), Autothrusters or Stealth Device on Fenn Rau (Auto for overall coverage. Stealth to give him even more protection when he goes up into someones grill), and of course some kind of bumping deterrent with Manaroo (Anti Pursuit Lasers/Ion Projectors).

But I obviously can't fit all that in, and I want AT LEAST 2 points for a bid, though I feel I should have 3... Not that it's gonna help against Dengaroo, but hey

Talonbane doesn't want to directly confront the opponents whole squadron unless he is guaranteed to take out whatever he's facing, thus Crack Shot will likely be a better investment than Fearlessness on him, with VT or EU being used to get into that sweet 5 dice range and Glitterstim being security in case he can't get double focus from Manaroo.

Fenn Rau is fairly obvious. Lack of PTL hurts, but he's built to rely on Manaroo early, with her giving him double focus unless he doesn't need it so he can freely reposition or target lock and get right into someones face and blow them up. Hopefully by the time Manaroo goes down he and his brother in arms will have taken down enough ships to survive without her aid

Manaroo runs support and bumping as explained earlier, giving out double focus and using Feedback to either hurt soft targets like Soontir or a near-dead enemy, with R5-P8 being a deterrent for aces (like Soontir) from shooting her. As I intend to run her straight up someones face unless they've got tons of blockers with lower PS I expect her to go down eventually, but being a large ship she might just survive if I bail out at the right moment. Either way if my opponent is shooting her, he's not shooting my aces, so that's a win-win.

For how to fit stuff like EU on Cobra in I've considered removing R5, which would also give me a 3 point bid, but I really like that droid... It's a tough situation, maybe I just need to fly cobra more defensively from the start and try to keep at range 3 and then ram him into range 1, since I figure once combat is joined his barrel roll would be more useful.

Thoughts and suggestions?

Bump since the post was nearly off page 1 before even being posted

I need to send in the list today, sorry if I'm being impatient.

*cough* Attanni Mindlink *cough*

There's your quick answer, now a longer one to address some of your points.

Engine vs Vectored on Talonbane: As you said, it depends on the situation. While Fenn wants to joust head-to-head, try to come at enemies with bank maneuvers (esp. 3-speed) with Talonbane, which makes Vectored much better. The 2 additional points for Engine really just can't easily be spared in this list.

Autothrusters vs Stealth on Fenn: Autothrusters all the way. Stealth sounds good but but leaves you with no modification for blanks (which will happen). With Title and Autothrusters, the only place you don't have some kind of buff is in arc range 2 (so don't end up there). Autos also don't fall off when hit and, again, save you a point.

2 point Initiative bid: With my Mindlink list (Mindlink being where you save enough points for most of your other toys), try Inteligence Agent and R4 Agromech on Manaroo instead of Unhinged/K4. It's slower, but can still help set up TL's with R4, and Intel along with APL/Feedback can do bad things to enemy aces.

Tip for Talonbane: Don't expect more than 2 shots out of him. He's the easy kill, but he's also there to help Fenn throw 10 dice at something and kill it before it can shoot.

Manaroo Aces:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/227759-manaroo-aces/?p=2367180

Replies in red!

There's your quick answer, now a longer one to address some of your points.

Engine vs Vectored on Talonbane: As you said, it depends on the situation. While Fenn wants to joust head-to-head, try to come at enemies with bank maneuvers (esp. 3-speed) with Talonbane, which makes Vectored much better. The 2 additional points for Engine really just can't easily be spared in this list.

Yeah, that was my thought as well as I was fiddling with the list, so I'll probably stick to VT.

Autothrusters vs Stealth on Fenn: Autothrusters all the way. Stealth sounds good but but leaves you with no modification for blanks (which will happen). With Title and Autothrusters, the only place you don't have some kind of buff is in arc range 2 (so don't end up there). Autos also don't fall off when hit and, again, save you a point.

Autos are definitely an attractive option due to their lower cost and not being discarded, but I can't help but feel capitalizing on that 5 evade dice + evade result on the ideal joust is too good if it should come up xD

As it stands right now I have a hard time finding points for either however.

2 point Initiative bid: With my Mindlink list (Mindlink being where you save enough points for most of your other toys), try Inteligence Agent and R4 Agromech on Manaroo instead of Unhinged/K4. It's slower, but can still help set up TL's with R4, and Intel along with APL/Feedback can do bad things to enemy aces.

Mindlink was a consideration for the list, one of my favourite lists to fly casually after wave 8 was Guri and 2 K-fighters with mindlink, but given the recent FAQ and more stress elements I wasn't too confident in running that with Cobra due to his lacking greens. Manaroo is definitely great with it though since she gets to keep her focus, thus increasing survivability.

Tip for Talonbane: Don't expect more than 2 shots out of him. He's the easy kill, but he's also there to help Fenn throw 10 dice at something and kill it before it can shoot.

For this list that's probably true, but having flown him for about a year I feel he's surprisingly survivable (at least with engine upgrade) likely to do with his semi-ace status, and probably some lucky rolls

But yes, the ideal situation is throwing 10 dice +1 hit and 1 crackshot at a ship to delete it before it shoots.

Manaroo Aces:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/227759-manaroo-aces/?p=2367180

[/snip]

I appreciate the suggestion but I've never been a fan of taking a list full hog and using it without putting a personal touch on it at least. (For the record I've never flown and have no intention of flying Triple Jumps (though that list was nuked from orbit) or Dengaroo)

As mentioned in my response to ObiWonka I'm wary of flying Mindlink due to the recent changes, at least with this type of list. (I tried a list recently with Asajj, Serissu and Palob that was running mindlink. Worked pretty well, but not what I want to fly right now).

Cloaking device on Talonbane is something I've tried before, and if I was running a triple aces list I'd probably try to fit it in on him but as this is a very aggressive list I feel I need that Glitterstim to make him always be able to focus.

Prevalent stress mechanics aside (though I did beat a stress hog with relatively surprising ease), what recent FAQ changes are you worried about affecting Mindlink?

Also, I'll point out as I did in another thread, that I think Fenn (PtL), Manaroo (RecSpec), and a Party Bus is the best way to run the list in the current meta (and you can even run at a full 100 points since the Bus is so anti-ace and even Manaroo can be upgraded that way).

Stress doesn't mess uo Mindlinked ships as much as you might think.

I put over 6 stress onto Fenn Rau recently and he was still getting 2 focus plus a target lock to kill me with.

Prevalent stress mechanics aside (though I did beat a stress hog with relatively surprising ease), what recent FAQ changes are you worried about affecting Mindlink?

Also, I'll point out as I did in another thread, that I think Fenn (PtL), Manaroo (RecSpec), and a Party Bus is the best way to run the list in the current meta (and you can even run at a full 100 points since the Bus is so anti-ace and even Manaroo can be upgraded that way).

I was referring to how wave 9 brought Ventress and the new FAQ removed triple jumpmasters (Thus allowing for both Scum and Rebel stress control).

I don't doubt that it's a better list, but I've decided to not use the Party Buss, same as I decided not to use triple jumps when they were a thing. I'm a strange mix of competitive and hipster like that

Played a game today and oh boy did I miss Engine Upgrade... So much easier to close distance and control arcs for both current and following turns, especially given the K-fighters terrible dial xD

Considering dropping Glitterstim to fit it in, since I still have Manaroo to drop two focus on him if he needs it.

Stress doesn't mess uo Mindlinked ships as much as you might think.

I put over 6 stress onto Fenn Rau recently and he was still getting 2 focus plus a target lock to kill me with.

Yeah I've started getting around to considering that more after last game (Admittedly it was a very weird list with Squad Leader Vader, Deathfire and Deathrain...), Talonbane is the main reason I'm afraid of adding it, since he's pretty vulnerable to stress...

How is Manaroo going to drop two focus on him in light of the FAQ?

*edit* Nevermind, I derped and forgot you were running mindlink

Yes!

You run those Roo Aces right to the top!

Here is one I've been loving, you prolly saw it in the Manaroo Aces list but here it is again.

[post=https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v4!s!173:-1,-1,-1,122,118,-1:-1:-1:;212:18,-1:-1:15:;135:188,-1,145:-1:8:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron][/post]

There are three points left to play with and you can do either Feedback array on Manaroo or put the Title on Fenn. I have been using Feedback but have missed having the init bid sometimes. Title on Fenn seems good but you really want to arc dodge with him. The Title is really just a form of insurance in case you get caught. Talonbane seems like a crap build with Cloak and Stygium but if you play it right he can be a power piece and last much longer than anyone expects. Takes lots of practice though otherwise he's just expensive chaff.

Honestly Mindlink is a solid choice but I think you're right to question it's effectiveness on Talonbane. Good luck with your list no matter how you decide to build it and be sure to let us know how it all turned out. I for one am really excited to see Manaroo Aces in a regionals event!

edit: Also I was thinking about another way to build Manaroo and maybe Lone Wolf and Rec Spec would be solid on her in the Aces archtype. This way you could just fly off into the distance and still contribute. In the end game if all you have left is Manny, well she should be a bit more durable. This way you can keep Manny out of the way of your Aces and that might be a good thing if you're trying to decloak and PTL and all that stuff. Also, the double focus might be a nice touch for a Talonbane who already has TL. I could also see the benefits of being able to reposition Fenn and have better defense too. TL & focus from Manny tends to get spent on making things go boom so an extra focus might be nice to have...

Here's a couple of suggestions, the thing is, i dont think talonbane has the action economy that i'd like, even with vectored thrusters, i feel he can get chipped away easily by TLT. If you are adamant about running the triple aces, i've been using this to great success.

Update!

Decided to ditch Glitterstim and Vectored Thrusters for Engine Upgrade. Really missed Glitterstim a few times but wow do I love Boost xD (Of course there were times were barrel roll would have been better, but overall it's much easier to maneuver and get into range 1 with boost).

Got 3 wins and 2 losses, which landed me at 7th place in our 16 man tournament (We were expecting more people, but another tourney was running in another part of the country where we usually get some players at least, and others didn't plan for it because it got confirmed as a regional too late for them. Oh well.

My wins were against a mindlink Fenn Rau, Manaroo and Palob list, a 5 A-Wing SnapCrack list (Managed to block 2 and got 2 others to run into the back of their friends, allowing me to kill 2 on the first engagement), and a list with 2 Tie/D Defenders with Ion and Zeta ace(I think? The guy who can take stress to add an attack dice).

My losses were against Palp Defenders (where I got a good shot at one of the defenders with Fenn Rau which missed due to palp and stuff, and realized the turn after I should have focused Palp as he'd have been dead after the first turn if I had, sigh) and Rei-Finn with a PS2 K-wing running Sabine and a ton of bombs. First time flying against the K-wing with a bomb loadout and oh god I have no idea how to handle that beast, because if I try to focus it down (but don't get range 1 with both my aces) I won't kill it in time to face Rei who would obliterate me with 4-5 dice + focus + 2 re-rolls and Outmaneuver. Anyone know how to handle bombers(Especially slamming K's) without running a swarm? xD

Either way I'm in the top 8 cut (Apparently that's the rules, oddly enough) and will update again after tomorrow. Cheers!

Great job! 3-2 is a great showing for only having been at it a year. Especially with a list like yours, it can be so fragile and if you make any mistakes it really hurts. I look forward to hearing how day two went. Be sure to fill us in and let us know how you like the list after a full two days of pew pew!

I busted out my Manaroo Aces list yesterday against a classic Chewie & Leebo after seeing this thread. Lost the first match because I forgot how easy it is to decloak into a bad spot and well... it was over quickly. Fenn managed to destroy Leebo though and chew through most of Chewie before succumbing to the inevitable. Turns out Fenn hates Gunner just as much as anyone, haha! The second game I managed to get both Aces into their optimal firing positions in successive rounds and it was over pretty quickly after that. Turns out Chewie doesn't much like 10 damage per round. Not even Threepio can shrug that off...

Thank you, I was surprised to hear I made 7th place with only 3 wins, but I guess my MoV was good enough to make the cut xD

First game today I faced a Dengaroo build that ran Manaroo with 1 set of Plasma Torps and R5-P8 on Dengar, as he told me it's purpose is to allow him a good attack with Manaroo if Dengar goes down too quickly.

We both had 98 points and unfortunately he gave me the initiative after the die roll went in his favour (Figured I was screwed there xD), followed by me screwing up my approach and getting just inside range 3 on the first turn, leaving Fenn Rau with 2 hull left.

There wasn't enough room to Sloop left for dengar (or at least it would be risky), and knowing Dengar loves bumping one ship so he can only be shot by one, I went for a k-turn on both aces and as he did a 2 straight I got a range 1 shot with both of them which went really blank for him and left him with only a few hull left despite Counter-measures and Glitterstim, but also killed Rau.

I managed to end him the next turn, but then I spent 30 minutes desperately trying to avoid Manaroo's Plasma Torp with Talonbane, who was down to 3 hull (I think). Managed to run around her for a many number of turns but he outsmarted me eventually, I got lucky though and only took one damage, after that it was pretty much game.

Overall I feel I got more lucky than playing skillfully, at least when facing Dengar. If he'd gotten the 2 minimum evades (I'd expect) with counter-measures, lone wolf and focus I'd never have won. Though without initiative I can't see winning that happening unless I manage to block with my Manaroo (And I couldn't get an angle for her on the initial run).

Second game I faced the same guy running Rei and a bomber K-Wing who I lost to pre-cut, and I hadn't really thought of how to face it yet with how tricky the K-Wing is to nail down. Decided that rather than see if I could hit the K-Wing hard I'd just go straight for Rei and stay on her and run her down. Worked fairly well but I bumped Manaroo with Fenn a few too many times trying to set up for that alpha, making it so his facing was a little off after I tried to turn in after Rei when she tried boosting past me on my deployment zone.

Talonbane boosted into range 1 behind her easily, but the corner of Fenn's base contacted Manaroo when he tried to boost, leaving him without an arc on Rei... Was too afraid he'd try to block me with the K-Wing, so I turned when I should have banked. After that I turned away and boosted, since I knew he'd S-Loop, and that was not a position I wanted Talonbane to be in on his own, Fenn got Connered as he banked away from the fight (Me trying to get some distance from the bomber, and then go for a second pass.)

As predicted Rei tried to chase Talonbane as he K-turned into range 3 and managed to burn down some more hull on Rei. The next turn I thought he'd go for either a S-Loop or take it slow but I guess my brain wasn't working properly since both of those would leave him at Fenn's mercy, and maybe also Talonbane, so of course he did a 4 straight and JUST didn't bump Talonbane, and getting the focus that would allow him a 4 hit shot on Fenn. Despite that she was down to 1 hull, but this was where I did my second big mistake.

I expected him to S-Loop, so a 1 turn and boost from Talonbane would have left me in range 1 of him, and I was afraid that a k-turn could have been blocked by his K-wing, plus bombs. He did go for bombing where a K-turn would have taken me, but I would have at most hit 1 cluster (Thus at most 3 damage due to Sabine), instead he did a 4 K-Turn with the falcon leaving me in range 2 (3 after a boost) but with no way to avoid Outmaneuver. I don't remember exactly how, maybe I got things a little confused but I ended up that or the turn after in range 3 of Rei and 1 of the K-Wing, ending Talonbane.

Unfortunately despite Rei being on 1 hull Manaroo was down to 3 herself as the K-Wing had whittled her down every time it got a chance to shoot. And after another disappointing turn the game ended with Rei finishing off Manaroo and getting shot down by R5-P8.

Thus I ended up in 4th place, as the other guy who lost his round was the number 1 from the pre-cut and had a ton more MoV than me , still happy since I got the dice and two sets of templates (A local guy does laser cut templates and stuff for the local and nearby tourneys, so I'm really happy with it though it would have been nice to get my revenge on Rei

The guy who beat me then ended up facing the Palp Defenders list I lost to in the pre-cut. Feel pretty good that both the finalists were people who beat me to be honest And the Rei-Falcon player was the one who pulled off a victory with some really nice bombing. We tried to get the game streamed, but the laptop the organized had borrowed didn't want to cooperate, oh well

Writing this it just seems like mistake after mistake from my part, but I guess the negatives tend to stick out in your mind and things tend to flow together a lot xD Thanks for reading and I appreciate all the help from people!