Could anybody explain this card, please?
"Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer spaces, suffer 1 facedown Horror"
There is a long thread about this card, not clear enough.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1622399/question-claustrophobia/page/1
You end your turn in space X. You count range from your space. If you're able to count more than a range 2, the effect doesn't trigger. Otherwise you get horror.
Examples:
a) X-1-2-3 Claustrophobia doesn't trigger
b) X-1 Claustrophobia does trigger
In open spaces, it's mostly a dud. Inside a mansion... better staying in a very long hall, and find someone able to turn that horror back facedown
Hope this helps
And what happens when X-1-2? Are there 3 spaces in this example? There are people that suggests that your own space counts as one space, so claustrophobia should trigger in zones with two spaces only (x-1).
Edited by gran_orcoYou count range; so, your own space is range 0
This came up the other night for my group as well. I pointed out to them that you're fine with counting around corners for halls but you cannot count through the doors. It was easy enough with the Psychologist in the party to just use two actions and flip it down then remove it.
Maybe I am not explaining it well. In this image:
Would I trigger claustrophobia in each case, because I cannot count 3 spaces away in one direction? Or only in the pictures 1, 2 and 4, which have 2 spaces in total, whatever the direction (3 counting my space)?
If I must count 3 spaces away to not suffer claustrophobia, I could move just one space to the south in the third picture to avoid it. It is strange.
Edited by gran_orco"Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer spaces, suffer 1 facedown Horror"
The first thing you do is count out to a radius of 3 spaces away, minding doors, walls, and other things you can't count through. Then total up the amount of spaces within that radius.
In your example, Number 3 has 3 other spaces within itself (2 at range 1 and 1 at range 2) so you would be safe. Number 5 has 8 spaces that are technically only at range 1 from the investigator.
Hopefully that explains it better.
Maybe I am not explaining it well. In this image:
Would I trigger claustrophobia in each case, because I cannot count 3 spaces away in one direction? Or only in the pictures 1, 2 and 4, which have 2 spaces in total, whatever the direction (3 counting my space)?
If I must count 3 spaces away to not suffer claustrophobia, I could move just one space to the south in the third picture to avoid it. It is strange.
With Claustrophobia, you need to end your turn able to count three (or more) spaces within range (including the space you are in).
In all your examples, you should be fine (presuming that your grid lines indicate borders of spaces, and your black lines indicate walls or doors).
So if you're in the bathroom, bad (only one space in range). Library? Bad (two spaces in range).
Most rectangular rooms have only 2 spaces in them and a door in nearly every wall, so you'd want to avoid them. Stick to hallways (multiple spaces not broken up by doors) or large indoor or outdoor rooms.
Edited by dulcaoin
Sorry, I absolutely disagree with the above post. The definition of range is:
"The range of effects that use the phrase “within range” is up to three spaces away"
i.e. the range is a radius you count starting from the position you occupy. If in the above posted picture the circle represent the investigator, there is no way that that investigator is able to count a range greater than 2 spaces. We have:
Fig 1, 3: max range 2
Fig 2, 4, 5: max range 1
Anyhoo, if in doubt, submit the rules question directly to FFG, they will sure help
First, let me state up front on this reply that I held back replying to this thread because my interpretation seemed quite at odds with yours, Julia, and since you were a play tester, I figured you may have a better insight into this.
But, the wording on the card as written seems clear to me, clearer than it seems to to a lot of people. I could easily be wrong...
Sorry, I absolutely disagree with the above post. The definition of range is:
"The range of effects that use the phrase “within range” is up to three spaces away"
i.e. the range is a radius you count starting from the position you occupy. If in the above posted picture the circle represent the investigator, there is no way that that investigator is able to count a range greater than 2 spaces. We have:
Fig 1, 3: max range 2
Fig 2, 4, 5: max range 1
Anyhoo, if in doubt, submit the rules question directly to FFG, they will sure help
This is the same disagreement that was had over on BGG.
I read the card as "
Whenever you end your turn, [if your investigator is] within range of 2 or fewer spaces, suffer 1 facedown Horror."
In other words, once your turn is over, you count how many spaces you (your investigator) is in range of. That means each space that is within range of the investigator (0 to 3 spaces distant, not counting through walls or doors).
If you are (if your investigator is) within range of 2 spaces, or 1 space, you suffer the Horror. If you're in range of 3 spaces, or more spaces, then you don't.
A couple of supporting reasons I believe this is the meaning:
- The original (MAD01) text on this card was: "Each time you end your turn in a room that contains only 1 space, take 1 horror." This is very similar, they just made it a little less claustrophobic this time around (no pun intended) -- here rooms of 1 space or 2 space cause horror.
- I think the term "space" is causing ambiguity for folks here. If the card said "Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer monsters, suffer 1 facedown Horror," I doubt it would have this disagreement about its meaning. Having reviewed most of the text in the app (yeah, don't ask :-P), I know that this is a really common word form used to express effects. So I don't think it inappropriate or a stretch to compare this conceptual use with the actual Claustrophobia card text.
No worries, testers don't hold the universal truth
And in any case we're not allowed to share information on the testing process, nor to give answers to confusing rules in stead of FFG. So, if you want it official, you need to use the rules query function of this site.
Here I'm just sharing my personal view of the rules.
I take your point, but I still disagree. The problem is that you need a source to count range, and in all other cases you count range starting from the space the investigator occupies and ending with a destination target. If a monster checks if an investigator's in range (to attack), you don't start counting range from a space the monster's not actually occupying, you count from the space of the monster. And it's the same for when you count range for investigator's attacks. I don't see why this case should be treated any differently.
If range were to be counted as you suggest, then the card would simply have another wording, referring to the number of consecutive spaces without walls or doors. The question for Claustrophobia is the following: I'm on space X and I count range in the four possible directions. How many max spaces do I count in each direction without range to be broken? If the answer is greater than 2, then I'm safe. Otherwise it's a +1 facedown horror.
In any case, I asked FFG. As soon as I have an answer, I'll post it here
Maybe I am not explaining it well. In this image:
Would I trigger claustrophobia in each case, because I cannot count 3 spaces away in one direction? Or only in the pictures 1, 2 and 4, which have 2 spaces in total, whatever the direction (3 counting my space)?
If I must count 3 spaces away to not suffer claustrophobia, I could move just one space to the south in the third picture to avoid it. It is strange.
None of those examples cause problems for Claustrophobia.
"Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer spaces, suffer 1 facedown Horror"
In all of the examples you show, you have more than 2 spaces within range of the investigator. Claustrophobia will only hit you if you are in a room that is made up of 2 spaces or 1 space. Remember that you can't count range through doors, but you can count range across yellow lines (ex: an investigator ending their turn in the Dining Room has range to the Kitchen, and wouldn't suffer from Claustrophobia).
Edited by Aaron Foss>I take your point, but I still disagree.
> The problem is that you need a source to count range,
You have one (your investigator)
> and in all other cases you count range starting from the space the investigator occupies and ending with a destination target.
Here, the destination target you are looking for is "spaces within range" (a space being a sectioned-off part of a room).
________
I'm not sure what you're thinking my point was, since I wasn't advocating any source other than the investigator. It's like any other "things within range" concept in the game.
Mostly, I'm replying with a couple more in-app examples of similar verbiage.
In the Claustrophobia* mythos event (this time I'm talking MAD2, not MAD1) the text is "The walls of the room seem to close in. This mythos event affects the investigator within range of the fewest spaces."
In the Ia! Ia! Tentacles Phtagn!* mythos event, the text is "The roar of the surf fills your ears. This mythos event affects each investigator within range of a beach or a dock."
_____
* mythos event names are not displayed to the user in the app, they are so far only used internally.
Edited by dulcaoinIn any case, I asked FFG. As soon as I have an answer, I'll post it here
Thank you. I was interested in this, but I didn't know how could I ask it with my level of English.
Maybe I am not explaining it well. In this image:
Would I trigger claustrophobia in each case, because I cannot count 3 spaces away in one direction? Or only in the pictures 1, 2 and 4, which have 2 spaces in total, whatever the direction (3 counting my space)?
If I must count 3 spaces away to not suffer claustrophobia, I could move just one space to the south in the third picture to avoid it. It is strange.
None of those examples cause problems for Claustrophobia.
"Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer spaces, suffer 1 facedown Horror"
In all of the examples you show, you have more than 2 spaces within range of the investigator. Claustrophobia will only hit you if you are in a room that is made up of 2 spaces or 1 space. Remember that you can't count range through doors, but you can count range across yellow lines (ex: an investigator ending their turn in the Dining Room has range to the Kitchen, and wouldn't suffer from Claustrophobia).
This is exactly how we interpreted it as well. In fact, when it came up in the game, that's how we handled it, and no one batted an eye or thought for a second it was anything else.
In any case, I asked FFG. As soon as I have an answer, I'll post it here
Thank you. I was interested in this, but I didn't know how could I ask it with my level of English.
No worries, I'm happy to help. As soon as I have the answer, I'll post it here and on BGG
"Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer spaces, suffer 1 facedown Horror"
My literal rules-reading mind says: There are two things you are counting. You are counting the number of spaces you see (for Claustrophobia), and the distance from your figure for the "within range" to see which spaces you need to count. You don't count a space if it is not within range, i.e. further than 3 spaces from the figure.
(Edit: Actually, you're checking range from the space you are inspecting to your figure, but the result is the same.)
I.e.
Count the number of spaces within 3 spaces of you. If you counted 2 or fewer spaces, suffer 1 facedown Horror.
Edited by a1bertInteresting. I can see where Julia is coming from, but my literal mind can't get what the basis would be for ignoring the word within's inclusive nature. I think dulcaoin's point about if it said monsters instead of spaces is right on. It is obvious to me you'd count the monsters occupying the same space as you as "within range", so barring some sort of clarification adjustment to the range rule; spaces should be no different. Hopefully FFG will clear it up though.
Interesting. I can see where Julia is coming from, but my literal mind can't get what the basis would be for ignoring the word within's inclusive nature. I think dulcaoin's point about if it said monsters instead of spaces is right on. It is obvious to me you'd count the monsters occupying the same space as you as "within range", so barring some sort of clarification adjustment to the range rule; spaces should be no different. Hopefully FFG will clear it up though.
Sorry, but I don't understand Julia's stance at all.
If the card said "Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer investigators, suffer 1 facedown Horror" or "Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer monsters, suffer 1 facedown Horror" we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Why does changing one word to "spaces" make this so confusing for people?
Besides, Julia's interpretation just doesn't make any realistic sense... think of the 1x4 hallway in the example above: By Julia's definition, they'd be fine if they were standing at one end of the hallway, but somehow if your investigator ended your turn in the middle of the hallway, they'd suddenly have a claustrophobic breakdown? Huh?!? How in the world would standing in the middle of a long hallway br worse than being stuck at one end of it for a claustrophobe (yeah... it's not a real word, but it sounds cool)?
Edited by KBlumhardtMy take at explaining it (brackets for clarity)
"Whenever you end your turn [within range] of [2 or fewer spaces], suffer 1 facedown Horror"
The number two above refers to the quantity of spaces.
I believe some people are reading it as [range 2], eg distance. That isn't really a concept in the game, things are in range or not. Besides the word "of" separates range and 2.
If the phrase was any of the below, I don't think we would be having this conversation.
Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer doors
Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer monsters
Whenever you end your turn within range of 2 or fewer other investigators
Still no answer from FFG?
Nope. But between Worlds and now bgg.con it could take a while. If I get no answer in a week or so, I'll ask again
Step 1: Check for the nearest space that fulfills the criteria "2 or fewer spaces", if you cannot find any location that fulfills the criteria, end
Step 2: Is this location within range? If yes, Claustrophobia, if no, end.
Your own space is within range, isn't it? (if not you couldn't attack with ranged weapons monsters in your own space)
So if you have two more spaces within range you will not suffer claustrophobia. If you have no more adjacent spaces or only one you'll suffer it.
