Kanan Jarrus (Crew) + Millennium Falcon (HotR)

By APOLLO457, in X-Wing Rules Questions

Posted at

tl;dr - Can Kanan remove the stress generated by the MF title in the same turn it was generated allowing the MF to perform an action that turn?

Does anyone have a firm grasp on the interaction between these two cards? I have done as much research as I can, and I am left more confused than when I started.

There was a recent "confirmation" that the stress from Daredevil was not removed by Kanan.

There was talk when the card was first announced, but this is likely dated now.

There is also discussion that stress token from Inertial Dampeners is different than the way Kanan interacts with the MF Title.

And then today I saw discussion on reddit talking about using the title when you are already stressed, with Kanan to remove said stress and still complete the maneuver.

The best explanation I found is the following:

Daredevil and Dampeners both say perform a white (1 hard/stop). Then, receive 1 stress token.
Kanan says after a friendly ships at range 1-2 performs a white maneuver, you may remove 1 stress token from that ship.
So, how the order works is this: --You execute the white maneuver. --At this point Kanan triggers, interrupting the instructions on the card. If you have a stress, you may remove it. If you do not, then nothing happens. --After Kanan resolves, the rest of the instructions on the card occur, in this case, receiving the stress token.
The reason it works like this is that you have to resolve each trigger as they come up. When you execute a white maneuver, this is the start of the timing window for things that trigger after you execute a white maneuver (Kanan, new Falcon title). Once you go on to receiving the stress token, the timing window had closed, as something else has occurred. In this case, you could now resolve anything that occurs after you receive a stress token (Cool Hand).

So the shaky conclusion I draw from all of this is that the MF title occurs at the same time as Kanan because you receive your stress token before completing the maneuver so Kanan is able to then remove it. If Kanan and MF occur in the same "Activation Step" then it would follow that if you already have a stress token, Kanan could activate before the MF title to remove that stress, and then the MF title could active to add a new stress token to the ship.

Please let me know your thoughts, and/or if anyone gets an FFG Offical TO ruling on this at Worlds.

Thank you!

Posted at

The current consensus here is yes, you can do this with the MF title, specifically because the MF title and Kanan explicitly share the same timing, so you choose the order (either use title then clear stress, take action, or start stressed, clear stress, then use title or take action).

Daredevil and Dampeners have slightly different timings for the stress, and it's less clear how they work, but current consensus is that they don't.

Nobody will get a TO to rule on this at Worlds, because HotR isn't legal at Worlds...

Posted at

Kanan and the MF title happen at the same time. You can choose the order in which they resolve.

The cards that Kanan doesn't work as well with are the ones like Daredevil that are written like "Execute a maneuver, then do something" because Kanan triggers after the "Execute a maneuver" but before the "then do something".

Posted at

The cards that Kanan doesn't work as well with are the ones like Daredevil that are written like "Execute a maneuver, then do something" because Kanan triggers after the "Execute a maneuver" but before the "then do something".

I was looking at this and I was a bit confused at first as well. But I see the distinction now.

Posted at

Nobody will get a TO to rule on this at Worlds, because HotR isn't legal at Worlds...

I'm still hoping someone tries to have the discussion with someone from the FFG team so that this makes it into the next FAQ.

Thank you very much for your response!

Posted at

I'd be surprised if it wouldn't end up FAQed.

But you can make it more likely by submitting an official rules question via their website.

Posted at

I'd be surprised if it wouldn't end up FAQed.

But you can make it more likely by submitting an official rules question via their website.

I didn't realize you could submit rules questions to them directly, I will try that, thank you!

Posted at

Both have the statement "after executes a maneuver". Since both happen at the same time, the player who has both gets to decide what order to trigger them.

Here are the 2 cases where Kanan Jarrus works.

1. YOU ARE CURRENTLY NOT STRESSED. You make your 3 bank. Check conditions for the Falcon Title. If met, and you wish to use it, you do so, gaining 1 stress. Kanan Jarrus then applies and removes gained stress.

2. YOU ARE CURRENTLY STRESSED. You make your 3 bank. Kanan Jarrus applies and you remove a stress. You check for conditions for the Falcon Title. If met, you may then perform the Segnor's Loop, gaining 1 stress.

Yes, this means that Kanan and the new Falcon Title you can make constant Sloops and take an action. Even gaining a single stress in a round, you can still make that Sloop.

Posted at

I'd be surprised if it wouldn't end up FAQed.

But you can make it more likely by submitting an official rules question via their website.

I didn't realize you could submit rules questions to them directly, I will try that, thank you!

Here's the form to use.

Posted at
You know I think the FAQ may already cover this, here's the wording of the Cards and the FAQ


Millennium Falcon (1)

•Unique

YT-1300 only. Title.

After you execute a 3-speed bank maneuver [ or ], if you are not touching another ship and you are not stressed, you may receive 1 stress token to rotate your ship 180°.


Kanan Jarrus (3)

•Unique. Rebel only.

Once per round, after a friendly ship at Range 1-2 executes a white maneuver, you may remove 1 stress token from that ship.


FAQ:

Kanan Jarrus

Kanan’s ability triggers after the Clean Up substep of the Execute Maneuver step.

If a friendly ship at Range 1–2 executes a white maneuver and overlaps a debris cloud, Kanan’s ability can remove the stress token gained from the debris cloud.


Rules Ref:

1. Reveal Dial: Reveal the ship’s dial and take the maneuver template that matches the chosen maneuver.

2. Execute Maneuver: Resolve the following substeps in order:

a. Move Ship: Slide the maneuver template between the front guides of the ship’s base so that it is flush against the base. Then pick up the ship and place it at the opposite end of the template, sliding the rear guides of the base into the opposite end of the template.

b. Check Pilot Stress: If the maneuver is red, assign one stress token to the ship; if the maneuver is green, remove one stress token from the ship.

c. Clean Up: Return the maneuver template to the pile of maneuver templates. Place the revealed dial outside the play area next to the ship’s Ship card.

3. Perform Action: The ship may perform one action.



So the way I read this is as follows

1. Execute a 3-speed bank maneuver

2. [Falcon Title] Recieve 1 stress token

3. [Falcon Title] Rotate your ship 180°

4. Do whatever else happens in the Execute Maneuver step

5. [Kanan Crew] remove 1 stress token from that ship


What do you think?


(does it show that I was a rules judge at several GW Tournaments including GTs)

Edited by mephiston x
Posted at

You know I think the FAQ may already cover this, here's the wording of the Cards and the FAQ
Millennium Falcon (1)
•Unique
YT-1300 only. Title.
After you execute a 3-speed bank maneuver [ or ], if you are not touching another ship and you are not stressed, you may receive 1 stress token to rotate your ship 180°.
Kanan Jarrus (3)
•Unique. Rebel only.
Once per round, after a friendly ship at Range 1-2 executes a white maneuver, you may remove 1 stress token from that ship.
FAQ:
Kanan Jarrus
Kanan’s ability triggers after the Clean Up substep of the Execute Maneuver step.
If a friendly ship at Range 1–2 executes a white maneuver and overlaps a debris cloud, Kanan’s ability can remove the stress token gained from the debris cloud.
So the way I read this is as follows
1. Execute a 3-speed bank maneuver
2. [Falcon Title] Recieve 1 stress token
3. [Falcon Title] Rotate your ship 180°
4. Do whatever else happens in the Execute Maneuver step
5. [Kanan Crew] remove 1 stress token from that ship
What do you think?

The Kanan FAQ is kind of odd and I'm not sure what it is clarifying. Something that happens after executing a maneuver obviously happens after something that is a step for executing a maneuver. I'm assuming that the FAQ isn't actually changing the timing of Kanan but merely confirming that "after executing a maneuver" comes after the cleanup step.

The Falcon title should happen after your 4.

1. Execute a 3-speed bank maneuver.

2. Do whatever else happens in the Execute Maneuver step.
3. Choose to resolve either Kanan or Falcon title.
4. Resolve the one you didn't pick in 3.
Posted at

I actually don't understand why the Kanan card would even apply to the ship that Kanan is on? It seems to apply to other friendly ships!!!! Am I missing something here? I couldn't find it clarified in the FAQ either.

Edited by Zorprime
Posted at

I actually don't understand why the Kanan card would even apply to the ship that Kanan is on? It seems to apply to other friendly ships!!!! Am I missing something here? I couldn't find it clarified in the FAQ either.

Kanan is "after a friendly ship at Range 1-2 ..." not "after another friendly ship at Range 1-2 ...".

All ship are friendly and at range one of themselves.

Posted at

OK that jives with the FAQ as well since both have the trigger 'after execute(s) a maneuver' and in this case the best benefit is Falcon then Kanan so you can go into the "Perform Actions" unstressed

Section 5: FAQ
General
Q: If a player has multiple effects that resolve at the same time, can he resolve them in any order?
A: Yes.
That works for me, just trying to get all my ducks in a row, thanks!
Edited by mephiston x
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If they FAQ it to not work, Rey is dead in the water.

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I think the whole problem is the timing of the HotR MF title. As in when does it happen in the substeps of execute maneuver, since Kanan is clearly stated when his ability happens in the current FAQ. But most are in agreement that the two are able to function together, and will go with that till FFG says other wise. Your assumption (The Penguin UK) will probably be answered when the new Upsilon-Class Shuttle is released with all of it's shenanigans.