Are safety net NPCs a thing

By Metsys509, in Star Wars: Edge of the Empire RPG

I've had a number of powerful nemesis level npcs tag along with the PCs in the past. We had a dual wielding smuggler, a lost Jedi and at one point even an assassin droid tagging along at different times. Their function was always to allow the group to go up against more powerful opponents with a safety net to help out.

Now however it's time to stop and let them fight on their own.

Anyone else had powerful NPCs tag along in the past?

Nope. Handler/fixer/contact NPCs, but always solo for my groups.

I try not to for a few reasons:

  1. As a GM I already have enough other stuff on my plate. In my group, we talk about "GM bandwidth" and delegate certain tasks among players to speed things up and let the GM focus on the important stuff. For me, running a combat in a semi-realistic fashion with both sides reacting to each other's tactics, while answering questions and trying to keep everyone happy, eats up all my "bandwidth." Adding in a GM-run heavy-hitter NPC, with the associated complexity, doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
  2. It's just too obvious a deus ex machina . If the players can't handle the fight on their own, they need to plan better, upgrade their gear, and fight the battle at a time and place of their choosing. If they get in over their heads, they should be able to tell that they need to cut their losses and run. Keep in mind that having everyone downed by the BBEG isn't an automatic TPK; it just sends the story in a different direction.
  3. Piggybacking on point #2, it robs the PCs of their chance to shine. Space Opera protagonists do deeds of improbable heroism, cunning, and skill. Having an avuncular figure there really takes the wind out of their sails when they succeed or fail. It's like their choices and contributions don't mean anything.

That's just my $0.02, of course. It sounds like it's worked for you, but it's not my thing.

I greatly dislike powerful NPC helpers, makes me feel like why is my character here?

I don't mid powerful patrons that need stuff or a powerful NPC that is diminished somehow, or the occasional get out of jail card.

So I say if your players can walk on their own let them some of the best stories happen because the PCs fail.

Our GM threw in a couple of NPC crew members as plot hooks.... nothing to help us in combat. They very often stayed back 'looking after the ship'.

Edited by ExpandingUniverse

I let my players have the option to hire help. The main reason is to fill in gaps in the party's roster; mainly slicers, techies or even mercs when the heavy hitting PCs aren't at the game. If the players choose to use hirelings, the hirelings take a cut of the pay for whatever job. Also use of hirelings poses another problem; not all of them can be trusted. Some will try and extort the PCs, some will betray, some get drunk and brag in the local cantina about the top secret heist they were just part of. It's up to the PCs to decide if they want the help and if they want to deal with the potential downsides

...also the PCs get full control over the hireling NPCs while on the job but I will sometimes interject at opportune times and take control for betrayals or whatever other ulterior motive that particular hireling might have.

In Group play I really try to avoid anything like that. Except for a slicer here and then or a bomb specialist that needs to be protected, but that is no really help in any encounter, They'll have one job and then are out of the run.

In a solo play, the hero gets sometime a little squad as meatshield, Or a doktor, or somethin like that, so he still has to do the hard work.

Similar thread here:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/233514-playing-as-a-gm/

I let my players have the option to hire help.

I think that's a bit different. There are squad rules and mass combat rules in the game so that the PCs can hire/draft/recruit NPCs as well, and those NPCs are fully under the PC's control. (And obviously if the PC tells those allied NPCs to all "walk off that cliff, I don't need you anymore", I'd say the GM has full rights to jump in if they want.)

How about setting the PCs up with an allied "heavy hitter" who's actually far more confident than skilled and who bites it when the sh!t hits the fan?

There's the Squad/Squadron rules in the AoR Gm kit. That allows hits to be neutralized to removing a squad member minion instead of wounding the player, and on a triumph the player can have the squad attack too.

I have had powerful NPC's assist the party, but they usually end up directing the group to do one task, while they complete another. Then they might step in and provide a background battle that the rest of the group isn't prepared for. Think Obi-wan in Episode IV. On the Death Star, he disabled the tractor beam, then delayed Vader long enough for everyone to escape. But he didn't interfere with the players rescuing the princess and actually escaping.

When we played the Dragon Age RPG our GM used characters like that as an in-game instructor for the party to level up or acquire new talents from. Also sometimes as the catalyst to a campaign, as they would deliver news that would take our party away from the NPC and on a continent-spanning quest.

We have had powerful NPC's and characters from the allience with us in the past, but often the allience as so much on it's plate that while we often work with them; it's a very much our actions make up a chunk of the bigger picture and that they will spare as much help as they can reasonbly afford.

NPC assistance often has direct links, so far....

An NPC task force on a solo raid (these fellows were clearly less capable then mine with one exception, but they were the hired muscle that basically was there to make sure stuff got stolen. Almost all of them died in the end, two of tried to turn on me and were killed as a result when we were cornered in a warehouse.

Merchanarys: Open Palm Force: One party member required saving after buggering off on his own and getting slighted in a mandolorian succession bid, so we paid some mercs to do it as we wouldn't have made it in time. These fellas went way back with a couple of members of the squad so we knew their numbers before hand.

Jedi: Eliza generally was a terrible state when she was rescued from an inquistor. after a time jump she was with the rest of the party on the frontlines, flinging troopers left and right. She was powerful, but remained behind to hold off inquistors. So powerful NPC's do help out now and again, but really aren't that more better then our squad at this point.

The Allience: We are one of their most high preforming squads, as a resource we have a Maralder Class ship with several squads of men on standby on some ops. We fought in a few pitched battles with them too. So yeah, we are often working as part of larger ops.

Lando: My PC goes way back with him, being the only member of party who was involved in the original hiest. He's not so much a Powerful NPC as a influence one, and the relationship with the party is a bit of give and take; he helps us out in exchange for favours (Most of the existing party owe him at least one favour. XD), we help him out when crap hits the fan. So far we have held an Opera (that was ironically a best seller, not bad for a rebel cell). Up until recently he didn't know our alliance affliction and was quite surprised when we ran into him post Bespin. XD He's basically the one constant contact we maintained throughout.

Have we ever felt inclined to kill the movie people despite meeting all of them? God no

Hutt: As much a adversary as an ally. She likes having a force emergent at her disposal and we are her primary contact with the alliance, but got awfully angry the last time said user delivered her major business rival/ex lover right into her thrown room....

So assisting NPC's can help; it helps broaden the scope of an adventure beyond just the PC's, which I find is a major problem with the DND mindset; NPC's shouldn't be either a foe or jesus on a stick, but rather people who will do what is reasonably expected of them. If you are in a huge millitry op, give them the support to make them feel a part of the big picture.

The PC's should be the heroes. When I was a youthful referee I ran into this problem on a long-lasting AdvD&D campaign. I made a Ranger and Wizard NPC for the party which only included 2 PC's. It not only became a time sink for me as DM, but after a long-lasting campaign they had become "my" characters in the campaign, not just helper NPCs. Imagine the affect on player PC's versus referee "PC's". Since, I've made sure the PC's are the stars. I of course have had NPC's involved with the party but they are often just helpers. Contacts that give advice, a crafter when no one in the group wants to be one, temporary muscle (henchmen controlled by PC's), etc.

Boredom can set in if the players always have crutches. Referees that always save the party no matter the stupid decisions. Referees tweaking a roll from time to time to fit the story. Referee controlled NPC's that save the day when the players are in a bind. Invulnerability or always winning begets boredom.

Edited by Sturn

I've had to run "GM PCs" in the few previous games I've run, mainly because they've mostly been solo campaigns with one other player, and had to run the rest of the party, or, when it has been a larger party, to provide a teacher/mentor for the apprentice Jedi, By canon, Apprentices are always supposed to be accompanied by their Master for any and all missions until they become full Jedi Knights. I follow that rule religiously, given that I've typically played late New Republic, where the Jedi are ascendant, or (sometimes) Prequel Era where the Jedi are still at their Peak. I typically don't play (or run) Rebellion era games. My signature character, a New Republic era Jedi master, I've played both as a standard PC under other GMs, as well as a GM PC as needed. I've also had to run a "love interest" character to add some "spice" to the games. You've got to have the romance.

So, yes, I have done GM PCs, but you do have to be very careful how you use them or, as others have said, they can overshadow the players' PCs.

For the most part I don't believe in having GMPCs...and a GMNPC is still a GMPC. If you want to play, have another player run a campaign, or rotate GMs. The GMPC who isn't running that week can spend it in sickbay, fixing the ship, running to the market for coffee, etc.

I would have a NPC Jedi Master if the PCs are Padawans and request having one in the game...but he never participates in any task resolution. Ever. He's the guy the you click on to get a quest...that's about it. Or their trainer to keep with canon only if the players want a formal trainer. I really prefer PCs self-train though. Anything more active then I'd have him fall and become a Nemesis or die at the hands of Vader or even perhaps as a Reaver spear cleaner. You know Reavers clean their spears by running them through the Wash. :D

If the Players are short, they can certainly bring on some hirelings. But they would be rolled up and played by the PCs if they do anything of significance...otherwise they're the cook, the taxi driver, the porter, etc.

Edited by Tiltowait

IMO, while they can exist, it is generally a bad idea. Not only does it trivialize the PCs abilities and efforts (they exhaust themselves and the Big PC swoops in to save the day and take the credit), it also robs the players from learning or exploring a quite possibly insane, but high-risk, high-reward plan.

I agree with most post. PCs should be the heroes of story. If NPC is stronger than heroes, then it's IMO better to keep more like mentor or employer, who may come to save PCs (if they ask it), if they dug a hole deep enough they can't climb up, but there should for example obligation cost for it. But keep them a away from campaign/adventure climax. That's the PC time to shine. Keep em more like plot devices used when needed, than active NPCs.

When I was younger, I used quite a much friendly NPCs who were stronger than PCs. Their purpose was help PCs if PCs managed to get into trouble where they couldn't get out. Rarely nothing good came out of that. more than 20 years of gaming experience has taught me that stronger NPCs are best as antagonists, and/or goals for PCs to surpass. I also have learned PCs are quite resourceful bunch, and when I just listen to them carefully and don't default to "no", but to "yes, and", PCs can overcome most obstacles without Gary Sueish NPCs. Currently, if I use stronger NPCs who are at same side with PCs, I often subjugate them to PCs. For example, if PCs are defending a town, they may order the captain of the guard (my god NPC) to defend one part of the town, while PCs defend the other. So NPCs larger power never actually comes to visibly/mechanically into play. Mostly I try to keep friendly NPCs at most at the same level as PCs, and try to make them interesting and memorable NPCs.

I have created a couple NPCs that are not necessarily adversaries to any of my groups and are much more powerful than where they are at now. They are my powerful force user NPCs that may or may not become mentors or adversaries to the force using PCs. If they become mentors, they will be like a Yoda/Obi-Wan, not really actively assisting them aside from training. If they are adversaries... Oh boy, I hope the PCs don't try to kill them.

I tend to make my Nemesis level NPCs to be tougher than any 1 of my PCs so they have a challenge to overcome together.

There was one time a group got NPCs to bail them out of a dicey combat situation. The reason I allowed the NPCs to come in and wreck the enemy is because they required something in return for their assistance and the group readily agreed to it without even asking what it was. So that's going to be fun. :)