The way our table handles it is that at the death of a character you can flip a destiny point for them to miraculously survive somehow but be out of the session (Like Darth Maul getting sliced in half and falling into a pit, but surviving to show up again in Rebels). Players can do this, and the DM can also do this. That means you can kill Darth Vader, but the DM just flips a dark side point so that he survives somehow and will be back.

It gives DMs the option to save characters that still have a part in the story to play or are canonical, and also gives players some extra security against cheesy ubercrits.

That feels like a total cop-out. Bringing back Maul was like big flashing red letters on the screen: 'WE'VE COMPLETELY RUN OUT OF NEW IDEAS!!'

Players don't like being rescued by deus ex machine, and they really hate the same happening to their enemies.

If there's no way to change an outcome, there's no stake, and you may as well just watch a movie than play a game.

In all honesty, if players aren't affecting the story, you'd be better off not including canon characters in the first place. FFG have been notably reluctant to do so in comparison to previous SW RPGs.

There is nothing deus ex machina about letting characters survive by the will of the force if it makes a better story in the end. The crit table isn't a better storyteller than the GM, and I play for a good narrative, not rigid adherence to mechanics. The mechanics in the game can very easily produce meaningless deaths for both villains and heroes, and to me that's not an improvement over having them go out in ways that people actually appreciate. In fact if you go strictly by the rules of this game all the hand slicing that happens in Star Wars is nothing but random chance, and every single time it occurs they could have just as well rolled a different crit. Wouldn't have really been a good scene in Empire Strikes Back if Luke had been hit with "Temporarily Lame" before he jumped off the gas mining rig, and went splat at the bottom because overly convenient chutes are a deus ex machina.

I think there is a healthy balance between letting people interact with canonical characters and letting people rewrite the whole story. By simply invoking this one little "he's only mostly dead" clause you can have people blow up Darth Vader and get their win without having the whole timeline unravel. That doesn't detract from the value and originality of the stories your party experienced, it just means that the stories that the movie characters experienced also still happened.

However, I believe that it is also possible that it was simply a matter of knowing that it's easier to sell people something that they already like than it is to sell them something new. This is also why sequels, prequels, remakes, reboots, and reimaginings have become so prolific at the cinema.

Which is basically flashing big red letters on the screen: 'WE'VE COMPLETELY RUN OUT OF NEW IDEAS!!'

However, I believe that it is also possible that it was simply a matter of knowing that it's easier to sell people something that they already like than it is to sell them something new. This is also why sequels, prequels, remakes, reboots, and reimaginings have become so prolific at the cinema.

Which is basically flashing big red letters on the screen: 'WE'VE COMPLETELY RUN OUT OF NEW IDEAS!!'

Not necessarily, it could be that new ideas have a higher risk of lower profits.

Not necessarily, it could be that new ideas have a higher risk of lower profits.

I submit that is precisely the same as flashing big red letters on the screen: 'WE'VE COMPLETELY RUN OUT OF NEW IDEAS!!'

As the great bard once said, there is no such thing as a completely original idea, only a new take on an old one.

I think it was Mark Rein-Hagen of White Wolf who said 'originality is hiding your sources'.

But I think its possible to put a new spin on things, a new look at an old idea. But 2016 just feels like it's all about tired old retreads and playing it safe. I like films like ET that told its story without the need for prequels and sequels and retcons and reboots.

I don't want James Bond to be black or female, because James Bond isn't black or female. Why not make a new hero who's a black or female spy and start something new, with a new twist on an old concept?

'Lord of the Rings' and plenty of other things are just fine without needing sequels.

Not necessarily, it could be that new ideas have a higher risk of lower profits.

I submit that is precisely the same as flashing big red letters on the screen: 'WE'VE COMPLETELY RUN OUT OF NEW IDEAS!!'

If you study economics, you quickly learn that, statistically, you don't get rich by taking risks. You get rich by risking other people's money and being conservative with your own.

If you study economics, you quickly learn that, statistically, you don't get rich by taking risks. You get rich by risking other people's money and being conservative with your own.

Absolutely agreed. The problem, as I see it, is that the movie studios have decided to be ultra-conservative with everyone’s money, and to focus almost exclusively on reboots, sequels, prequels, pre-sequels, and the like.

In other words, we get back to what Maelora said a few posts back — flashing big red letters on the screen: 'WE'VE COMPLETELY RUN OUT OF NEW IDEAS!!'

Players don't like being rescued by deus ex machine, and they really hate the same happening to their enemies.

I have found that you can get away with the "Nobody could have survived that!" villain deaths once, perhaps twice - but you have to build it up right and be VERY careful in handling it.

That was one of my major plot point changes when I did that 12 part Super Campaign that WotC wrote. The Main Bad guy had several Miraculous escapes or "They Never Found the Body" getaways, enough that I was rolling my eyes. So I scrapped them all, chose my Deus Ex Exitus very carefully and then made the death so completely over the top (Bottomless pit, exploding volcano and a Star Destroyer crashed into the planet) that it pretty much telegraphed to the players that yeah, she's coming back someday.

After that, it was all appearance by proxies - encounters at a distance as one party or the other ran away, taunting over holocomms, or kidnapping the Jedi's NPC apprentice turning him dark and making the two fight.

But generally, yeah, don't have your bad guys be like The Joker.

So, in my games I tend to like to play with the idea that the Canon characters are the bit players in MY story ... and the PCs are dealing with larger issues. This hasn't been overtly shown previously, but the group is about at around 900XP now, and very soon we are going to reveal what's really going on. The reveal is going to have to do with the fact that the Sith and Jedi have always been part of a larger structure - the Force is merely an aspect of a larger ecosystem of energy, and while it's very cute that the Sith have this Empire now, and have beaten their Jedi opponents, the true power behind their Order is now calling for the Emperor to accomplish a task it wishes done. The PC's are the only ones on the trial of this larger threat, and the Galactic Civil War will merely be the background for a much more insidious and potentially apocalyptic threat. The best part is that no one would even believe the threat exists because it's so impossible sounding.

Boba fett lead an elite hit squad (of 5 other 2 spec npcs built using the same rules as PCS + adversary, Bob had somewhere around 6 specs) in an assassination attempt against one of my PCs who was about to be voted in as CEO of czerka. Boba was the only assassin that survived the encounter, thanks in part to one of my PC's (Thad Bane's) infamous uncle Cad Bane who drove Boba off. It was a Vader vs. Obi-Wan moment where the PCS were dealing with the formidable assassins other than Boba (so it didn't steal their thunder) BTW Boba had armor with the cortosis quality obscenely high soak and defense and adversary 3 and approx 30 wounds, and high strain and resolve, but he still took a pounding before flying off after dropping a thermal detonator.

Sounds like a ...fun... session.

Could you post the stats you used for Fett?

Boba fett lead an elite hit squad (of 5 other 2 spec npcs built using the same rules as PCS + adversary, Bob had somewhere around 6 specs) in an assassination attempt against one of my PCs who was about to be voted in as CEO of czerka. Boba was the only assassin that survived the encounter, thanks in part to one of my PC's (Thad Bane's) infamous uncle Cad Bane who drove Boba off. It was a Vader vs. Obi-Wan moment where the PCS were dealing with the formidable assassins other than Boba (so it didn't steal their thunder) BTW Boba had armor with the cortosis quality obscenely high soak and defense and adversary 3 and approx 30 wounds, and high strain and resolve, but he still took a pounding before flying off after dropping a thermal detonator.

Sounds like a ...fun... session.

Could you post the stats you used for Fett?

You can find the session log here

http://red-talon-wanted-dead-or-alive.obsidianportal.com/adventure-log/session-12

The link to Boba fett will take you to a character page for him, where you should find a link to his oggdude char sheet pdf hosted on mediafire. And yes the stats for Boba are totally over the top, but their almost as good as for cad bane (which you should be able to get from the cad bane character page. BTW I designed Boba so that MY PLAYERS would have an extremely difficult time taking him down (i've got critical monsters, damage monsters, and pressure point monsters for PCs)

I'll let Cannon characters only apear on the sidelines, as Mission NPCs, or to bring the PCs back in line:

e.g.

During the evacuation of Yavin the Hot Shot was allowed to fly with the new formed Rouge Squadron (as Rouge 6) hearing Luke and Wedge (Rouge Leader and Rouge two) via Com, but had to handle some Tie-bombers and landingships with his own Minion-Wingmans (Rogue 4 and 5) while the canoon chars were of handling the TIE-T/LN that were harassing the Squadrons Gold, blue and green.

One PC saw Luke in the battle of Hoth in the distance as a guy with a blue stick climbing an AT-AT

Also the PCs met Dash Rendar while he was fighting an AT-ST, the helped him escaping!

Lando Calrissian apeared as an Opponent in a casino, (I had to put an end to the exeeding gambling attemps... when they recognized they lost to Lando there were no hard feeling, because they had the (slim) chance to beat him while it is no chame to loose against one of the greatest known gamblers of the galaxy)

Han and Cheewie apeared in a Cantina Scene and were helped by the players to escape.

General Cracken did handed out an Important Mission to the PCs.

Borrsk Fey'la apeared in a scene on Bothanwui while a PC was handing out some stolen impereal data, (which ture´ned out to be the plans on the new Death Star... right after that the Impereal Navy appeared... "Many Bothans died to get this informations!")

Another time a PC was in Jabbas Palace (for some special buisness) while witnessing the arrival of Lando, meeting Boba Fett and seeing Carbonized Han. By Accident he help Lando to maintain his cover by Blackmailing a thuck who recognized him, to shot up.

Vader... ok he was the evil Deus ex machina that can't be defeated... but everyone was in line with that since it was first session and the players needed some reason to feel the urge of escaping, while theire mentor had to been catched.

Even Darthmaul and General Kota had and Cameo at our table... as an defeatable opponent. Ok not the real ones, it was an Proxie Droidunit called M1M1-C (taa-daa three cameos in one) the players maimed it... totally cut of the left Arm and the right Leg, sunder his cortosis chasis (only cortosis weapons are imune to sunder)... in the end it escape on the last Woundpoint... on a wheel in his foot after faaling down from a mountainside... he will reapear so the players get the satifaction to kill him properbly while I may use different character Holocameos for that encounter ^^

Canoon Charackter can be fun and flawor, even if you don't let them be fooder for your lightsaber swinging killers.

However, NEVER NEVER EVER LET THEM BE THE MAIN PERSON OF THE SCENE.

Your players are the Stars! if you don't want to get your Canoon chars get killed than don't involve them in Fights against the PCs, and never use them as the deus ex machina to rescue your PC, they'll just get pissed over that!

If your players like to see canoon chars, well use them (mine asked me espacially to built in cameos), but keep in mind that your PCs need to have the heavy weight tasks to accomplish not the indestructible canoon "heroes".

On Hoth e.g. my players had to accomplish to secure the retreat pathes for the rebels to theire transporters. they had to fight of Snowtroopers, and rescue a squad that was cut of by the empireal troops. After that they had to help some smugglers that weren't able to escape from the landingbay because of a technical malfunction of the bay gate (and an rampaging AT-ST).

I haven't had canon characters show up thus far, but as I try and stay as close to canon as possible, eventually I'm sure a few might appear here and there. Especially true since the PCs are all survivors of Order 66, who've attracted the attention of two Inquisitors, though they aren't aware of it yet. I know one character - the Guardian - will likely be keen to join the Rebellion once they become aware that the Empire has their sights set on them. I've talked to my players and they like the idea of weaving with the narratives of the film, while still having their own.

I'll probably even have them cross paths with Luke if that comes to pass, but I'd like do something where while it's Luke's destiny to confront Vader and the Emperor, the PCs would be the ones hunting down lost knowledge and trying to find anything that survived the purge, such as a lost sanctuary of forgotten temple - maybe even the legendary Tython. I've also the two Inquisitors to pattern as their own personal Vader and the Emperor antagonists.

I think it all boils down to making sure they don't overshadow the PCs and that the PCs are firmly the heroes of their story, and not the other way around.

I'm running an Old Republic campaign that's taking place during the Jedi Civil War with the ultimate goal being that the party will be part of the Jedi strike force who helped Bastila capture Revan. Thus far I've been statting out all the major players of that era using the old KOTOR Saga edition stats for each of them as a baseline.

This ended up resulting in a scenario where the players ended up stumbling on Darth Malak when they attempted to procure weapons and equipment from a Sith outpost on the edge of the Outer Rim to provide relief for their comrades on another planet. It culminated in an awesome scene where one of the Jedi characters who have been flip-flopping on whether or not they should have joined Revan against the Mandalorians sacrificed himself to hold Malak back so the rest of the crew could get back to the ship. Malak was too skilled of a duelist for the Jedi, so he ultimately resorted to pulling out a thermal detonator and tried bringing Malak down with him. The explosion caused the building to collapse on them, allowing the party's ship to escape, with Malak angrily pulling himself out from the wreckage, battered and bloodied, but very much alive.

I think canon characters have their place in these stories. That last session left such an impression on the party that I will always defend using these characters sparingly.

Boba fett lead an elite hit squad (of 5 other 2 spec npcs built using the same rules as PCS + adversary, Bob had somewhere around 6 specs) in an assassination attempt against one of my PCs who was about to be voted in as CEO of czerka. Boba was the only assassin that survived the encounter, thanks in part to one of my PC's (Thad Bane's) infamous uncle Cad Bane who drove Boba off. It was a Vader vs. Obi-Wan moment where the PCS were dealing with the formidable assassins other than Boba (so it didn't steal their thunder) BTW Boba had armor with the cortosis quality obscenely high soak and defense and adversary 3 and approx 30 wounds, and high strain and resolve, but he still took a pounding before flying off after dropping a thermal detonator.

Sounds like a ...fun... session.

Could you post the stats you used for Fett?

Sure

You can find the session log here

http://red-talon-wanted-dead-or-alive.obsidianportal.com/adventure-log/session-12

The link to Boba fett will take you to a character page for him, where you should find a link to his oggdude char sheet pdf hosted on mediafire. And yes the stats for Boba are totally over the top, but their almost as good as for cad bane (which you should be able to get from the cad bane character page. BTW I designed Boba so that MY PLAYERS would have an extremely difficult time taking him down (i've got critical monsters, damage monsters, and pressure point monsters for PCs)

Great! Thanks! Seems pretty OPed but you say your characters handled him AND his buddies just fine...