We all know that, if we use punishers, most of the time he will not shoot his entire load, but we still like to equip him with lots of possible options (at least to keep him versatile).

Therefore what about following title (0 points):

When attacking, you may discard one (torp/missile/bomb) upgrade card to cancel one evade result

So you still have to equip him with lots of fun stuff, but you get some advantage back for that. You make him more valuable without changing point cost. And you simulate a bit the "multiple-ordnance-at-once-attack" with two missiles without beeing overpowered.

Could something like that be the push the punisher needs?

Thoughts?

turning tracer threads into four crackshots is nice but I don't think it'll be enough for how abhorrently overpriced they are

Seems very overpriced to spend a 3-5 point warhead just to kill a green die.

Broadside: You may fire as much ordnance as you wish each turn. Take a red 1 straight movement backwards for each additional warhead you fire.

Call it "Lose the Spare" and possibly make it a dual card? One side has your proposed effect, with the other side allowing you to jettison ordnance to add an evade result to your defensive roll (kind of like deploying chaff/flares in modern fighters). Not sure what the point cost should be though.

(reusing some of the ideas above)

Tracer loadout (title)

Once per round, you may perform one of the following effect.

- After an attack, immediately fire a tracer at the same target.

- While defending, you may discard a tracer to add an evade result to your roll.

A bit more polivalent without feeling too game breaking.

Punisher needs Reinforce. Cost is totes seat-of-pants, but something like this:

[Mod] Chaff Ejector (2pts) ( TIE Punisher only. Once per round when defending, if you have a <torpedo> or <missile> secondary weapon equipped, assign 1 reinforce token to your ship.)

Once the magazines are empty it stops working, could otherwise be more expensive. It's specific to secondary weapon cards so that you can't just use Extra Munitions to satisfy it, though I guess you could hold XX-23s forever.

Definitely not "good". But hilarious. I love the start drifting backwards one.

Dumb Fire

System, TIE Punisher only

You may attack with torpedoes and missiles without spending their costs. You may not modify torpedo and missile attacks. When instructed to discard a torpedo or missiles, do not.

0 points

This gives the token on Extra munition a use. I like it. But as for giving the punisher a push? no not at all. Since this just makes the punisher a worse tomax + crackshot. What the punisher needs is a system upgrade that makes it do work, like the tie adv ATC or such. I posted this in another thread and I think it fixes all the problems without making the punisher overshadow the Tie bomber.

system mod
Tie punisher only
-2 pts

You may treat ' ATTACK (TARGET LOCK): ' header as ' ATTACK: '.
Once per turn, If a game effect instructs you to spend a target lock, you may ignore it.
Once per turn, after an attack, you may make another attack with a secondary weapon or you may perform a bomb Upgrade card action as a free action.

Keep the generic punisher more expensive the tie bombers and aces roughly equal to their PS counter parts (deathrain to jonus and redline to tomax) which is offset by having no EPT while giving the punisher more flexibility during combat as well as gives the punisher a much more agressive style of fighting rather than the bomber. The punisher will like using boost and getting in close about to fire at 1 target with a secondary weapon without a TL or if it does decide to TL can fire two secondary weapons a turn and there is something for deathfire and bomb style punishers. Bombers on the other hand like to keep to range and use LRS, punishers get in close with chips.

Fix non-corran ewing first plz. It's wave 4 ffs.

We all know that, if we use punishers, most of the time he will not shoot his entire load, but we still like to equip him with lots of possible options (at least to keep him versatile).

Therefore what about following title (0 points):

When attacking, you may discard one (torp/missile/bomb) upgrade card to cancel one evade result

So you still have to equip him with lots of fun stuff, but you get some advantage back for that. You make him more valuable without changing point cost. And you simulate a bit the "multiple-ordnance-at-once-attack" with two missiles without beeing overpowered.

Could something like that be the push the punisher needs?

Thoughts?

Surer would make Extra Munitions even more popular for that kind of build. Consider that you could even dump to token EM places on itself to use and eventually even EM itself to power that. I think it's pretty powerful but there are costs to use it.

Heavy Bomber. Title. Reduce the cost of each (torpedo, bomb, or missile) upgrade by 2 points. This cannot reduce the cost to less than zero.

You need ways to keep the Punisher alive so it has a chance to fire it's ordnance payload. My idea,

Ordnance Payload Optimization Computer:

You may equip a Comm Relay card at zero cost. If you begin the game with at least one empty bomb, missle, or torpedo slot, you may begin the game with one evade token. Each time you fire a missle, torpedo, or drop a bomb you may add one evade token to your ship.

My idea was to give the punisher the tie bomber title. The punisher looses half of each type of slot but gets to carry one crew member.

.

system mod

Tie punisher only

-2 pts

You may treat ' ATTACK (TARGET LOCK): ' header as ' ATTACK: '.

Once per turn, If a game effect instructs you to spend a target lock, you may ignore it.

Once per turn, after an attack, you may make another attack with a secondary weapon or you may perform a bomb Upgrade card action as a free action.

You've hit the nail on the head. The issue with ordnance isn't the amount you can take but the action requirements which restrict how much you can use it. Not so sure on a negative cost for this though. It is very powerful even with just the target lock changes (even better than Deadeye) and on top of that allows you to attack twice!

I just want a pilot named Frank Castle.

.

system mod

Tie punisher only

-2 pts

You may treat ' ATTACK (TARGET LOCK): ' header as ' ATTACK: '.

Once per turn, If a game effect instructs you to spend a target lock, you may ignore it.

Once per turn, after an attack, you may make another attack with a secondary weapon or you may perform a bomb Upgrade card action as a free action.

You've hit the nail on the head. The issue with ordnance isn't the amount you can take but the action requirements which restrict how much you can use it. Not so sure on a negative cost for this though. It is very powerful even with just the target lock changes (even better than Deadeye) and on top of that allows you to attack twice!

My thoughts behind it was to give the punisher "free" extra munitions. I wanted the punisher to feel free to use boost instead of having to TL and still fire but can only fire once like that BUT if it does TL instead of boost it gets to reward itself by being able to fire twice. This also allows redline to be able to mod his cluster missiles like he use to (but unable to fire twice unless he gets another Tl from another source) as well as gives dearain the ability to fire something and still drop a bomb. Maybe 0 pts would be better? But all in all i think it is a very simplistic way to keep the punisher as a dcent choice but not over shadow the Tie bomber. Also keep in mind that changing the Tl header to ' ATTACK (TARGET LOCK): ' header as ' ATTACK: '. you STILL have to spend a TL if the card requires you too which the next line lets you skip once a turn

A title and/or TIE Punisher-only fixes would require them releasing a punisher aces pack of sorts...which I highly doubt could ever happen. But I really like OP's and the reinforce idea! very neat.

I remember someone mentioned that Punisher is one of the few ships to have two torpedoes and two missile slots at the same time. perhaps we can introduce a 2-slot, V3 nuclear warhead ranged 2-5 to fix punishers?

A title and/or TIE Punisher-only fixes would require them releasing a punisher aces pack of sorts...which I highly doubt could ever happen. But I really like OP's and the reinforce idea! very neat.

I remember someone mentioned that Punisher is one of the few ships to have two torpedoes and two missile slots at the same time. perhaps we can introduce a 2-slot, V3 nuclear warhead ranged 2-5 to fix punishers?

True true.... Pretty much without releaseing a punisher aces pack they would have to pretty much just make a system upgrade that just so happens to be great on the punisher but not that fantastic or not as great on anything else...but the list of ships with system slot and missiles/torps is limited to B-wings/agressors/e-wing/vcx-100/starviper(with title) so i guess it wouldn't be to bad for a 0 point upgrade

A title and/or TIE Punisher-only fixes would require them releasing a punisher aces pack of sorts...which I highly doubt could ever happen. But I really like OP's and the reinforce idea! very neat.

I remember someone mentioned that Punisher is one of the few ships to have two torpedoes and two missile slots at the same time. perhaps we can introduce a 2-slot, V3 nuclear warhead ranged 2-5 to fix punishers?

True true.... Pretty much without releaseing a punisher aces pack they would have to pretty much just make a system upgrade that just so happens to be great on the punisher but not that fantastic or not as great on anything else...but the list of ships with system slot and missiles/torps is limited to B-wings/agressors/e-wing/vcx-100/starviper(with title) so i guess it wouldn't be to bad for a 0 point upgrade

Actually your comment just made me realize that a system upgrade could totally work!! If you'd allow me to tinker your idea a little bit like so:

Adv. Loading System

System upgrade

0 pts

If a game effect instructs you to spend a target lock, you may ignore it.

If you equip any (torpedo), (missile) or (bomb) upgrades, the sum of total point costs is reduced by 5 (up to a minimum of 0)

This will fix the Punisher without restricting it to Punisher only. B-wings /agressors/e-wing/vcx-100/starviper can load this up if they'd like to, but would they give up FCS for this? probably not! and that's the point . This will give punishers a comparative advantage against the K-Wings as well! We can see 4BZ squadron again! but this time fully loaded with ordnance.

Now if ffg would release a ship with two system slots together with this card...

I think that would be better if the total point cost of each was reduced by 2 to a minimum of one. The way you wrote it, it seems like you could have a fully loaded punisher for 0 upgrade points. That is a bit too much.

Consider this basic Cutlass setup:

Cutlass (21)

Adv. Loading System (0)

Extra Munitions (1)

Proton Torpedoes/Concussion Missiles (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

24 points gets you 2 double modified shots? That's solid. Add in 2 Ion Pulse missiles for 1 more point? Sure! You could swap out for LRS to alleviate the pilot skill TL issue as well.

The punisher has the problem that without ordnance, it's a terrible ship for its cost, and there are no upgrades to make it really any better.

The lambda shuttle is 3/1/5/5 for 21 points. The punisher is 2/1/6/3 for the same price.

Having more hitpoints than a TIE Bomber only makes it die more slowly, without giving it a chance to actually do anything useful during that agony.

An attack 2 ship with that dial for that cost only makes sense if the upgrades it can equip balance it out. Like the Y-wing, for example. At 18 points, a Y-wing is overcosted naked. But the TLT is a bit undercosted (on purpose), so it balances it out. The same with the HWK, more or less.

The K-wing is also overcosted naked, but it can equip some undercosted upgrades like TLT, it has means to survive with its unique SLAM action, it has a great pilot in Miranda, and it does mine-layering better than any other ship in the game. On top of that, the cheapest K-wing is 23 points naked, only 2 points more than the cheapest punisher, and that includes SLAM and a turret primary weapon, while having almost identical statline.

For 21 points of naked punisher to make any sense, it should be able to equip really awesome and undercosted upgrades. Ironically, ordnance is among the most expensive and limited upgrades in the game.

A punisher with Extra Munitions (2), Proton Torpedoes (4), Guidance Chips (0), Fire Control System (2), and Homing Missiles (5) is already 34 points, and is still worse than the post-nerfed Contracted Scout.

There is zero reason to bring such a thing when you could bring a /D Delta defender with ion cannon for 1 point less, that will probably outlive the punisher, and deal more damage over the duration of the game.

If the punisher is to get a fix with a title, it will be by reducing costs like crazy, or at least increase the chance of it delivering such an alpha strike that it doesn't matter whether it survives for some more rounds or not.

For the first case:

TIE Interdictor

Title. TIE Punisher only.

Reduce the cost of any torpedo, or missile secondary weapon upgrade equipped by 3 points, to a minimum of 0.

When an attack requires you to have or spend a target lock, it may be a target lock you have on any ship.

For the second case:

Experimental TIE Heavy Bomber

Title. TIE Punisher only. Unique.

After performing an attack with a torpedo or missile secondary weapon, if the defender was not destroyed, you may assign a stress token and an ion token to your ship and suffer 1 damage.

If you do it, assign a focus token to your ship, and acquire a target lock on the defender. Then perform another torpedo or missile attack against the same target, if you can.

Hmm. Perhaps my wording is bad, but my intention is to have maximum reduction of 5 points. So you can soak in some of the ordnance costs. For example deathrain equipped with EM+cluster+Conner will cost 26+2+4+4-5=31 pts. Updated the wordings in the original post!

Also this works with redline in the sense that you lose fcs+ability interaction, but you TL the opp two times for two modified shots so it's a good tradeoff especially if you use cluster missiles and LRS

.

system mod

Tie punisher only

-2 pts

You may treat ' ATTACK (TARGET LOCK): ' header as ' ATTACK: '.

Once per turn, If a game effect instructs you to spend a target lock, you may ignore it.

Once per turn, after an attack, you may make another attack with a secondary weapon or you may perform a bomb Upgrade card action as a free action.

You've hit the nail on the head. The issue with ordnance isn't the amount you can take but the action requirements which restrict how much you can use it. Not so sure on a negative cost for this though. It is very powerful even with just the target lock changes (even better than Deadeye) and on top of that allows you to attack twice!

My thoughts behind it was to give the punisher "free" extra munitions. I wanted the punisher to feel free to use boost instead of having to TL and still fire but can only fire once like that BUT if it does TL instead of boost it gets to reward itself by being able to fire twice. This also allows redline to be able to mod his cluster missiles like he use to (but unable to fire twice unless he gets another Tl from another source) as well as gives dearain the ability to fire something and still drop a bomb. Maybe 0 pts would be better? But all in all i think it is a very simplistic way to keep the punisher as a dcent choice but not over shadow the Tie bomber. Also keep in mind that changing the Tl header to ' ATTACK (TARGET LOCK): ' header as ' ATTACK: '. you STILL have to spend a TL if the card requires you too which the next line lets you skip once a turn

No problem with the proposed target lock changes... just that this in combo with a second attack and a negative cost it would make them too powerful. People moan about TIE/x7 and that does a lot less.