For me, the best way to play is tied to the hassle of arranging a game with a local player, often driving to a location or hosting it and balancing my whole week's schedule to make up for it. The only true way of uncompromised play is in person.

For everything else, my opinion is obviously biased towards vassal. If I want to play chess online, I don't care about the graphics beyond a few seconds' worth of looks. I care about the game mechanics and the worth of my opponent. I don't have a visceral need to see shaded 3d models in perspective which will also fall short of the real thing anyway. Same goes for vassal x-wing. I don't see any reason to switch, even if TTS was free.

Collisions are dealt with in a matter of seconds on vassal if you use the post-move C shortkey to auto spawn your last move's template, mouse-place your ship roughly and then keep your hands on keyboard by doing the rest with shift arrows (displacement) and ctrl left/right for fine rotations. Some people are still using the mouse during fine adjustments and they always tell me they're glad to learn about the easier way.

Vassal. Because it's free.

Also, I've not tried but I suspect my computer wouldn't stand up to using TTS. It seems likely to be kinda resource-hungry.

I played Vassal for a long time, pushing my x-wing community to use it (demo training sessions on Skype).

Played league saison Zero.

At the time I tested TTS. Beautifull ! But not optimize, too long to set up, too long to play (compared to Vassal or real life), even when familiar with the interface.

Then I retested TTS few weeks ago, because I knew some improvements was made. And god, that was true...

Those two TTS modules => "X-Wing Table with automated movement" and "X-Wing automatic List spawmer" made this TTS experience as good as you can imagine an X-Wing mignature simulator on your computer.

So since then I'm pushing my X-wing community into TTS.

I still got Vassal on my laptop (TTS need some 3D ressources as said before) but honestly, I can't get into a game anymore.

It took me maybe 5/6 Vassal games to be confortable with interface and shorcuts. Played quicker than real life.

In TTS, 2 games and you know how to BB8 BR => PTL Boost => Get Stress => Green Move => Remove Stress => Do Focus... 3 or 5 secondes tops...

Less community in TTS,

no organized events like the League,

longer to get a ramdom partner to play,

not free of charge

All that is true, but still TTS is much more user friendly. Consequently I think it will grow.

I really appreciate all the replies - for those talking about the Vassal community being bigger and more organized, is there anything inherently stopping TTS becoming the same, beyond "first adopter advantage"?

I really appreciate all the replies - for those talking about the Vassal community being bigger and more organized, is there anything inherently stopping TTS becoming the same, beyond "first adopter advantage"?

The paywall.

I really appreciate all the replies - for those talking about the Vassal community being bigger and more organized, is there anything inherently stopping TTS becoming the same, beyond "first adopter advantage"?

The paywall.

Nothing except critical mass of players.

I really appreciate all the replies - for those talking about the Vassal community being bigger and more organized, is there anything inherently stopping TTS becoming the same, beyond "first adopter advantage"?

The paywall.

got it, but is there anything stopping those on the other side of the PayWall from setting up leagues or tournies?

I believe it's also much easier to set up and meet an opponent on vassal. You sign on, find the user, and make a room. I think if the TTS community grows this should be a limited issue for them as well though. Honestly it just comes down to preference.

I'm new to Steam and TTS, but can this be run on a Mac?

I honestly think the vassal interface is better than the TTS interface.

I've used both.

They are practically the same in terms of ease of use. There are two key differences.

1) TTS has automated bumping.

2) It is easier to do unusual barrel rolls, decloaks, and tallon rolls in VASSAL.

I've used both.

They are practically the same in terms of ease of use. There are two key differences.

1) TTS has automated bumping.

2) It is easier to do unusual barrel rolls, decloaks, and tallon rolls in VASSAL.

Also, vassal has automated bombing. I don't think TTS has that, right?

I'm on Vassal and think it's great for what it is. Plus I don't need to worry too much about graphics.

Most people have already commented on what's great about both but my one complaint about Vassal is it's very easy for your opponent to cheat. I honestly believe most people don't because they play to get better at the game and not to just gain 'vassal fame' but I'm fairly certain I played against a few people who decided to gain an unfair advantage. Overall they're the real losers as they aren't learning from their perfect moves.

I imagine TTS doesn't have the same possibility but I don't see myself ever picking it up unless that's the way the community goes.

The community in vassal didn't happen in a day. It took prolonged, concerted effort by many contributors, often organizing tournaments and events since early 2013. This can't be pegged to "first adopter advantage". Saying this completely minimizes the thankless work of many people.

X-Wing is now by far the most popular module of the vassal software (which came out around 2003ish from what I read?).

[...]

The enormous inconvenience of not having text available(this is the biggest one. I have forgotten abilities at least 15 times just in my last two games alone, which has been an enormous issue. I also don't have damage cards memorized, so we have to take time to look up what the damage cards do before we can keep playing. This SUCKS. I understand why it's considered necessary, but it still sucks complete *** and TTS doesn't do this.), unautomated collisions, and the disconnect with regards to movement(scale is difficult to adjust to, so bumps will occur a lot) is a major deterrent for me.

[...]

in Vassal i need to use a clunky, 2D interface with like, 4 critical windows i need to have open at all times(Dice rolling, player window, board, and movement shortcuts, which would be impossible to manage if i didn't have a dual monitor, which not everyone has), and have to manually adjust my ships position every time a bump occurs.

[...]

[...]

I agree with the irritance of not being able to read card text, but it's not exactly difficult to have either a printout or another window (minimised) with your lists in a squad builder. Also, it takes maybe 10 seconds to find a damage card, copy & paste the text in with this: http://s93768914.onlinehome.us/xwing/crits

I've never used a dual-monitor setup, and it still all fits in the window - map, dice, player hand (I have mine open, and the opponen't is one click away) and chat window all fine.

I would argue that Vassal helps you learn movement in a much more unobjective manner in terms of ship bases, which is applicable to the real table. Like, my ghost can perform its 5K only if it's out of range of the board edge directly in front of it, or my 2 turn with a large base will have just under 1 small base between the corners on the inside.

But... It IS that hard to have that window available. I already have FIVE critical windows that i MUST have open at all times just to play: Vassal main page, dice, board, player window, and keyboard shortcuts. All of which must be at a fixed size to be usable. I have a dual monitor set up, and i simply dont have enough room for any more windows.

As for damage cards, there arent any easily accessible means to find damage cards unlike upgrade and pilot cards. In TTS, i have one window. Dice are physically rolled, the maneuver system requires no shortcuts, player cards are kept in an on-board hidden area, and the chat and gameboard are on the same screen. Theres also the fact that i dont NEED another window on TTS for the cards because all the text is included as is.

I dont mind Vassal, but lets not pretend that the basic mechanics in TTS arent more efficient, because they are.

But... It IS that hard to have that window available. I already have FIVE critical windows that i MUST have open at all times just to play: Vassal main page, dice, board, player window, and keyboard shortcuts. All of which must be at a fixed size to be usable. I have a dual monitor set up, and i simply dont have enough room for any more windows.

As for damage cards, there arent any easily accessible means to find damage cards unlike upgrade and pilot cards. In TTS, i have one window. Dice are physically rolled, the maneuver system requires no shortcuts, player cards are kept in an on-board hidden area, and the chat and gameboard are on the same screen. Theres also the fact that i dont NEED another window on TTS for the cards because all the text is included as is.

[...]

The enormous inconvenience of not having text available(this is the biggest one. I have forgotten abilities at least 15 times just in my last two games alone, which has been an enormous issue. I also don't have damage cards memorized, so we have to take time to look up what the damage cards do before we can keep playing. This SUCKS. I understand why it's considered necessary, but it still sucks complete *** and TTS doesn't do this.), unautomated collisions, and the disconnect with regards to movement(scale is difficult to adjust to, so bumps will occur a lot) is a major deterrent for me.

[...]

in Vassal i need to use a clunky, 2D interface with like, 4 critical windows i need to have open at all times(Dice rolling, player window, board, and movement shortcuts, which would be impossible to manage if i didn't have a dual monitor, which not everyone has), and have to manually adjust my ships position every time a bump occurs.

[...]

[...]

I agree with the irritance of not being able to read card text, but it's not exactly difficult to have either a printout or another window (minimised) with your lists in a squad builder. Also, it takes maybe 10 seconds to find a damage card, copy & paste the text in with this: http://s93768914.onlinehome.us/xwing/crits

I've never used a dual-monitor setup, and it still all fits in the window - map, dice, player hand (I have mine open, and the opponen't is one click away) and chat window all fine.

I would argue that Vassal helps you learn movement in a much more unobjective manner in terms of ship bases, which is applicable to the real table. Like, my ghost can perform its 5K only if it's out of range of the board edge directly in front of it, or my 2 turn with a large base will have just under 1 small base between the corners on the inside.

But... It IS that hard to have that window available. I already have FIVE critical windows that i MUST have open at all times just to play: Vassal main page, dice, board, player window, and keyboard shortcuts. All of which must be at a fixed size to be usable. I have a dual monitor set up, and i simply dont have enough room for any more windows.

As for damage cards, there arent any easily accessible means to find damage cards unlike upgrade and pilot cards. In TTS, i have one window. Dice are physically rolled, the maneuver system requires no shortcuts, player cards are kept in an on-board hidden area, and the chat and gameboard are on the same screen. Theres also the fact that i dont NEED another window on TTS for the cards because all the text is included as is.

I dont mind Vassal, but lets not pretend that the basic mechanics in TTS arent more efficient, because they are.

Ya, familiarity with the shortcuts and cards seem to be a big hang up in this situation. I have a small laptop and I have no issue with having the windows all up, but I don't need the shortcuts window open. I have the log in the top left, with only 6 or so lines of text visible, my player window under that, the map on the right, and the dice tucked between the log and map, hidden slightly from view when interacting with the map (which is fine because I don't need to see the dice at all times). A lot of vassal players have a majority if not all of the cards memorized, as well as the shortcuts, which greatly reduces these issues. I will say I would personally prefer the cards have the text, but it doesnt make the game unplayable, as if I really need a reference, I just pull up a squadbuilder and peek at the card text when I need to look at it, and then minimize it again. With two players whom have the shortcuts committed to memory, it is reasonable to believe that a vassal game will have a shorter play time than TTS.

I just leave the main window full sized at the back behind the map. You only need to see the bottom couple of lines of the chat most of the time, there's no need to be able to see the room list and occupants constantly.

I just leave the main window full sized at the back behind the map. You only need to see the bottom couple of lines of the chat most of the time, there's no need to be able to see the room list and occupants constantly.

Just minimize it. You don't need to see any of that info unless you are looking for a game or a room.

I want to point out, before I'm wrongfully accused about this, that I don't advise people *not* to try out or *not* adopt TTS. Do what you must. I will myself jump ships if TTS becomes the dominant place where it's significantly easier to find games rather than vassal. I will learn to overcome any hurdle about the user interface if I have to, because the place I'm coming from is:

I'm a x-wing player first and foremost. I don't care about advertising vassal x-wing beyond getting access to a large pool of players. That's my sole motivation. I don't want TTS to fail, i don't want to badmouth it, it's currently indirectly useful to me as a backup platform (in a hypothetical remote future) for my own games to be played on.

I didn't care about Sega vs Ninentdo either back in the day but it seems like some people in this thread did (or would have).

I just leave the main window full sized at the back behind the map. You only need to see the bottom couple of lines of the chat most of the time, there's no need to be able to see the room list and occupants constantly.

Just minimize it. You don't need to see any of that info unless you are looking for a game or a room.

You still need the chat though.

I just leave the main window full sized at the back behind the map. You only need to see the bottom couple of lines of the chat most of the time, there's no need to be able to see the room list and occupants constantly.

Just minimize it. You don't need to see any of that info unless you are looking for a game or a room.

You still need the chat though.

You can split the two in preferences.

[...]

The enormous inconvenience of not having text available(this is the biggest one. I have forgotten abilities at least 15 times just in my last two games alone, which has been an enormous issue. I also don't have damage cards memorized, so we have to take time to look up what the damage cards do before we can keep playing. This SUCKS. I understand why it's considered necessary, but it still sucks complete *** and TTS doesn't do this.), unautomated collisions, and the disconnect with regards to movement(scale is difficult to adjust to, so bumps will occur a lot) is a major deterrent for me.

[...]

in Vassal i need to use a clunky, 2D interface with like, 4 critical windows i need to have open at all times(Dice rolling, player window, board, and movement shortcuts, which would be impossible to manage if i didn't have a dual monitor, which not everyone has), and have to manually adjust my ships position every time a bump occurs.

[...]

[...]

I agree with the irritance of not being able to read card text, but it's not exactly difficult to have either a printout or another window (minimised) with your lists in a squad builder. Also, it takes maybe 10 seconds to find a damage card, copy & paste the text in with this: http://s93768914.onlinehome.us/xwing/crits

I've never used a dual-monitor setup, and it still all fits in the window - map, dice, player hand (I have mine open, and the opponen't is one click away) and chat window all fine.

I would argue that Vassal helps you learn movement in a much more unobjective manner in terms of ship bases, which is applicable to the real table. Like, my ghost can perform its 5K only if it's out of range of the board edge directly in front of it, or my 2 turn with a large base will have just under 1 small base between the corners on the inside.

But... It IS that hard to have that window available. I already have FIVE critical windows that i MUST have open at all times just to play: Vassal main page, dice, board, player window, and keyboard shortcuts. All of which must be at a fixed size to be usable. I have a dual monitor set up, and i simply dont have enough room for any more windows.

As for damage cards, there arent any easily accessible means to find damage cards unlike upgrade and pilot cards. In TTS, i have one window. Dice are physically rolled, the maneuver system requires no shortcuts, player cards are kept in an on-board hidden area, and the chat and gameboard are on the same screen. Theres also the fact that i dont NEED another window on TTS for the cards because all the text is included as is.

I dont mind Vassal, but lets not pretend that the basic mechanics in TTS arent more efficient, because they are.

TTS has card text included at the risk of cease & desist from FFG. Until then it's a small benefit, since I suppose most people don't need the cards in their squad right there. I have it open in chrome, minimised behind Vassal. I printed a list of shortcuts at first but I quickly learnt them all, since they're logical.

16.5" screen fits easily.

TTS is also not possible to use on a laptop like mine which is more potato than computer.

TTS is clearly a good module but your comments on Vassal aren't as much of a problem as you make them out to be.

I manage with one monitor.

Mine is almost identical except I only have 1 player window up. I usually don't need the 2nd and if i do I open it up to look and then close it again.

I want to point out, before I'm wrongfully accused about this, that I don't advise people *not* to try out or *not* adopt TTS. Do what you must. I will myself jump ships if TTS becomes the dominant place where it's significantly easier to find games rather than vassal. I will learn to overcome any hurdle about the user interface if I have to, because the place I'm coming from is:

I'm a x-wing player first and foremost. I don't care about advertising vassal x-wing beyond getting access to a large pool of players. That's my sole motivation. I don't want TTS to fail, i don't want to badmouth it, it's currently indirectly useful to me as a backup platform (in a hypothetical remote future) for my own games to be played on.

I didn't care about Sega vs Ninentdo either back in the day but it seems like some people in this thread did (or would have).

and there was me, thinking I couldn't love you any more than I already do.