So with Palp defenders being a thing now, would it not be prevalent to take something other than Vessery to combat the mirror match?

Say Maarek in a defender for the higher PS?

Or even swapping out one defender for say Carnor fully loaded to shut down the token stacking?

Any thoughts?

Buzzaw oicunn!!

Oincunn

Palp

Ion projector

Intimidation

Block defender,

use palp to ensure ion works as the ability eats his precious defender.

????

Watch opponent cry/lmfao/ragequit.

Still leaves space for an ace,

Omega leader and a blocker,

3x crack shot black ties, or

4 academies.

If you want to spend the extra points drop intimidation and instead add saboteur and the title, lets you double up on the damage if your reds like you

No one has any advice on alternates to the palp defenders?

No one has any advice on alternates to the palp defenders?

OGP-Palp, Juke-x7-Vess, PTL-Mk2-x7-Ryad

Kinda hard to improve on perfection.

If you are worried about high PS Aces or mirror matches, swap Vess out for a classic Soontir build and you have the best of both worlds.

I've tried a number of different 2 Defender/ Palp-shuttle builds. The defenders do a lot of work and are very resilient, which is why the build is strong.

The weakness is the Shuttle.

The shuttle does not have ways to force the enemy into a bad position. Because you want the shuttle to survive as much as possible, you spend a lot of time trying to plan the best way to get as many palpatine turns as possible. You might do a few hits with the shuttle, but generally these are because the enemy rolled poorly and probably positioned and maneuvered poorly in the first place.

In the end, the shuttle is a 29 point 10 damage buffer with a Palpatine. That's very good, but it gets un-fun, and predictable very quickly.

I dropped my shuttle not too long ago in favor of a 3 defender build. I also tried 2 defenders with a third ace: OL, Inquisitor, Soontir, Vader, even Backdraft.

Then i tried Decimator with Ryad. And that seems to be my build now. It combines the resilience of the defender with a version of Palpatine that is itself a massive threat. So far, its a ton of fun.

Buzzaw oicunn!!

Oincunn

Palp

Ion projector

Intimidation

Block defender,

use palp to ensure ion works as the ability eats his precious defender.

????

Watch opponent cry/lmfao/ragequit.

This doesn't work. You remove all ion tokens after the move. So they will move, trigger IP for a second token, then remove both. Sad but true.

Pretty sure you're only partly right and this would come into play:

FAQ Page 5: Simultaneous abilities (such as when both players must trigger Swarm Tactics at the start of the combat phase) are resolved in initiative order.

The ioned ship gains and loses the ion tokens within the same timing window so the order in which things happen would depend on initiative.

Thanks everyone for the input it really helps

Buzzaw oicunn!!

Oincunn

Palp

Ion projector

Intimidation

I don't see how this would be considered a Buzzaw list? Buzzaw generally refers to ships that utilize Gunner (or Gunner-like effects), in my experience.

On topic, you really can't counter Palp Defenders with Palp Defenders. The only answer is to fly better. Taking Maarek over Vessery isn't the worst option -- non-PtL Ryads really aren't great pairings for Vessery - you'd hamstring her effectiveness to try and support him. Maarek won't proc often, and might not be very useful when he does (talking from experience), but at least there's a PS bonus?

But that's not a counter, because Maarek isn't going to be re-positioning all that much, regardless.

Palp Defenders are one of the few lists that don't really have any leeway in terms of advantage. It is what it is. You either build a list to counter them, or you fly it better than your opponents.

Carnor is alright to combat defenders, the only problem is you won't have multiple shots like a k-turning defenders will turn after turn. Whatever you pair with Carnor needs to be able to put the hurt on them through 3 defence dice and Palp anyway. I think this is why double defender + Jax is coming around. Defenders with modded shots + juke on something that can't modify a lot of green dice (except for one palp) is just gonna hurt. Maarek isn't too bad but I've found almost every time you do get that crit effect to work the ship was dead anyway.

Carnor is alright to combat defenders, the only problem is you won't have multiple shots like a k-turning defenders will turn after turn. Whatever you pair with Carnor needs to be able to put the hurt on them through 3 defence dice and Palp anyway. I think this is why double defender + Jax is coming around. Defenders with modded shots + juke on something that can't modify a lot of green dice (except for one palp) is just gonna hurt. Maarek isn't too bad but I've found almost every time you do get that crit effect to work the ship was dead anyway.

How are you seeing the carnor, vessery, and ryad builds? I'm struggling to put it together

I played last night with carnor, maarek and palp and really liked it.

Tonight tried Ryad palp maarek. Also good but tlt chews it up preventing juke almost 90% of the time

Carnor is alright to combat defenders, the only problem is you won't have multiple shots like a k-turning defenders will turn after turn. Whatever you pair with Carnor needs to be able to put the hurt on them through 3 defence dice and Palp anyway. I think this is why double defender + Jax is coming around. Defenders with modded shots + juke on something that can't modify a lot of green dice (except for one palp) is just gonna hurt. Maarek isn't too bad but I've found almost every time you do get that crit effect to work the ship was dead anyway.

How are you seeing the carnor, vessery, and ryad builds? I'm struggling to put it together

A friend is running it this way I believe:

Ryad/PTL/X7/MKII

Vess/Adap?

Carnor/PTL/AT

PTL Ryad is your best closer in this list.

Has anyone tried Tetran with Ryad and a palp?

Has anyone tried Tetran with Ryad and a palp?

No, no one flies Tetran.

If you weren't going with Carnor or Soontir, your best bet would be to jump over to the Inquisitor, or maybe Omega Leader, for the budget option.

I personally have had a very strong run with Vessery, Omega Leader, and Jendon as the Palp Shuttle, but, with TLTs likely to make a comeback, I'm less likely to run this list going forward.

I got some good answers on tetran on fb and he's a no go

Drop Juke on defenders IMO, go with PTL or Lone Wolf depending on your build. (Adaptability and VI are also possible - but minimal value on Ryad).

Juke is great, and on ships like Omega Leader it is outstanding - because OL denies the enemy the ability to use a focus token. But defenders just want to roll three or four dice and punch through. You are slashing with the defenders, which means you don't get to always line up multiple defenders on the same target. So if they have a focus token, all of a sudden your Juke is undone with no benefit.

PTL on the other hand lets you use barrel roll every turn you need to, and also still take focus or a target lock. You can seriously improve your consistency when attacking. In the 2 defender, palp builds, consistent attacks tends to mean you are using palp to boost defenses, giving you more turns to slash the enemy down. In a 1 defender, decimator build, consistent defender attacks means you can use palp almost exclusively to boost the threat from the decimator's attacks. (3 Defender builds tend to not have room for PTL - or it is at best on one of the ships only). PTL is particularly ideal on Rexler and in a build where one of the defenders is Vessery. It helps ensure the pilot ability goes off consistently.

Lone Wolf does a lot of what PTL does, but helps with defense consistency as well. It's very good on Ryad in particular.

If you are still looking for ways to reduce enemy defenses, Outmaneuver is the ideal pick for the Defender (over Juke). But in my experience, outmaneuver is really ideal when the enemy is trying to chase the ship. Which is not terribly common if you are slashing attacks while the enemy tries to take out your palp-mobile. you can still set it up, but there will be turns when you just don't have room to do what you want, and are forced to attack head-on, giving up the benefit. Consistency just seems like the better plan for defenders.

As always, I say ignore the Juke naysayers. Juke does more than what is printed on the card - it causes higher PS enemies to choose very carefully when spending a focus or not, and it can help strip the token against lower PS enemies who will be getting a return shot.

Juke is fantastic. If you were going to go otherwise, you might consider VI on Vessery, so you have a better answer to Dash. But I still say Juke is fantastic.

PTL on Ryad, yes. Anyone other Defender, absolutely not.

PTL on Ryad, yes. Anyone other Defender, absolutely not.

Sorry, but PTL is equally if not MORE valuable on Rexler and Vessery.

Juke is actually ideal for Ryad in many ways, but again, as i said above, its the defender playstyle that makes Juke inconsistent. If you are using the defenders in concert to attack a single target - juke is king. If you are using cross-hatch slashing attacks, its less clear.

Juke works best when 2 of your ships will attack the same target, and the juke user is attacking first.

PTL on Ryad, yes. Anyone other Defender, absolutely not.

Sorry, but PTL is equally if not MORE valuable on Rexler and Vessery.

Juke is actually ideal for Ryad in many ways, but again, as i said above, its the defender playstyle that makes Juke inconsistent. If you are using the defenders in concert to attack a single target - juke is king. If you are using cross-hatch slashing attacks, its less clear.

Juke works best when 2 of your ships will attack the same target, and the juke user is attacking first.

... Sorry, but you're wrong... And have no actual data to back you up. Feel free to compare PtL Defenders on List Juggler... I'd be surprised if you see less than 90% being Ryad.

The reason why you don't take PtL on any other Defender is because, even with Twin Ion Engines, their greens aren't enough to keep them in the fight. x7 means they really want to go fast, so they'll end up taking entire rounds off to clear stress and re-position. Ryad being able to perform a variety of green K-turns is why PtL is fantastic on her.

Not really sure why you imagine Vessery would even need PtL, as he shouldn't ever need to take a TL, so his action, Focus or Barrel Roll, becomes perfectly fine, letting you use any more viable EPT (Crackshot being one of the more popular).

And, if you're going Rexlar, you take Predator or VI or some such... Not PtL.

OGP + Palp

Inq + Title, Prockets, Autothrusters, PTL

Vessery + X/7, Stealth Device, VI

Went undefeated at this year's local Summer Exhibition with this list.

OGP + Palp

Inq + Title, Prockets, Autothrusters, PTL

Vessery + X/7, Stealth Device, VI

Went undefeated at this year's local Summer Exhibition with this list.

I'd personally rather give the Shuttle its title, as opposed to the SD on Vessery. It becomes a pretty fantastic tool for painting targets for Vess.

OGP + Palp

Inq + Title, Prockets, Autothrusters, PTL

Vessery + X/7, Stealth Device, VI

Went undefeated at this year's local Summer Exhibition with this list.

Looks a good list. A Sniper, a Brawler and a Support ship. I would be tempted to drop Vess's Stealth Device in order to get a FCS or ST-321 on the shuttle for the extra TL flexibility but apart from that, it looks very solid.