I saw this on the S&V podcast's Worlds Tier list. It was ranked up with the top popular metagame lists yet I've never heard of it before.

It sounds like Carnor and two TIE defenders, but that can't be the whole story (upgrade choices play into it for example). I'm intrigued to hear more about it.

Its Ryad, Vessery, Jax.

Ryad and Vessery with Juke and x7 title.

Jax with PTL and autothrusters.

It's an ok list. It went down somewhat quickly with Tractor xD Vess, x7 Maarek, and a couple blocker Ties. Tractor beam just strips all tokens from those x7's, and Vess doesnt care about using focus tokens. Only loss one Tie.

Played the list again, this time I had Gunner Whisper, Ion xD Vess, and Eps blocker. I just loss the Eps and that was it. Two double taps from Whisper and Vess demolish anything. Carnor had to either us his tokens to block Whispers first attack and give him a full modded second shot with no tokens, or eat a crit, knowing Ion Vessery is firing next. He chose to eat a crit, to try and block the ion (shot). Took a Direct Hit, blocked the Ion shot, died on Vess primary shot.

Problem with that Carnor list is Carnor. His attack is weak, and without Palps he is very glassy with all the double taps and zuckuss shenanigans out there right now.

Double x7 Defenders are tough to take down already, and with Palpatine they are just annoying. You will get more with Palpatine + Ion Projector or FCS, than 31 pt Jax, I think.

I just think too much stuff is out there right now to counter Carnor. Dengar crew, K4, double taps, BMST, Assajj, etc.

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I saw this on the S&V podcast's Worlds Tier list. It was ranked up with the top popular metagame lists yet I've never heard of it before.

It sounds like Carnor and two TIE defenders, but that can't be the whole story (upgrade choices play into it for example). I'm intrigued to hear more about it.

I was pretty surprised to hear about it on the podcast as I thought I had discovered something unique for Worlds. It's not a set list except that it contains two defenders with Juke and Jax. There are a few different combos that can fit. I think the list is very strong but flying a 3 hull Jax is not really a lot of people's cup of tea. I thought they were pretty bold to give it the rating they did, even though I like it a lot, as it's an unproven list essentially outside of smaller tourneys.

Yeah, a player who doesn't understand how to use Carnor effectively is going to just crash & burn with a list like this.

It really is a high skill floor/ceiling kind of list, so its not for the feint of heart. If you are really good with Jax though, it can own pretty much anything in the meta right now. That is why S&V gave it a high rating. It has a fair bit of 'hard-counter' potential against a number of popular lists, but that potential can drain away fast if you make any mistakes----its a very unforgiving list (because such is Carnor).

Personally, I like the archetype, but I'm not a fan of Juke, so I'd run it differently.

Having said that, its perhaps showing a bit of bias that the S&V podcast rated it highly---I think its no secret that Sozin loves Jax; although I can't blame him.....he's an evil sob...what's not to like?

Running Jax without hull upgrade freaks me out. Especially when he's clearly the thing to shoot first... I run him a lot, but only alongside two ships that are just as threatening (eg procket Vader and Deathfire). And only with HU!

Running Jax without hull upgrade freaks me out. Especially when he's clearly the thing to shoot first... I run him a lot, but only alongside two ships that are just as threatening (eg procket Vader and Deathfire). And only with HU!

This. I recently won a 3-round tournament and made top 4 in a 48-player tournament with Jax (PtL, AT & hull), Rexler (x7 & juke) and Omega Leader (CR, juke & hull). I almost always run Jax with an extra hull or shield (with the threat of BMST I always opt for the hull now), and as I wanted two pilots with juke capable of stripping tokens from the usual suspects (Vessery and Ryad) before they can shoot I ended up upgrading a defender to Rexler and then decided that Omega Leader would be the best way to round off the list with his juking capabilities and equal PS. It's also a really fun list to fly with three completely different dials and movement capabilities.

I use

Carnor Jax

PTL

Thrusters

Glaive Sq. Pilot X2

Juke

X7

Tis nasty. The person that initially posted it dubbed it "The Jukes of Hazard".

Running Jax without hull upgrade freaks me out. Especially when he's clearly the thing to shoot first... I run him a lot, but only alongside two ships that are just as threatening (eg procket Vader and Deathfire). And only with HU!

This. I recently won a 3-round tournament and made top 4 in a 48-player tournament with Jax (PtL, AT & hull), Rexler (x7 & juke) and Omega Leader (CR, juke & hull). I almost always run Jax with an extra hull or shield (with the threat of BMST I always opt for the hull now), and as I wanted two pilots with juke capable of stripping tokens from the usual suspects (Vessery and Ryad) before they can shoot I ended up upgrading a defender to Rexler and then decided that Omega Leader would be the best way to round off the list with his juking capabilities and equal PS. It's also a really fun list to fly with three completely different dials and movement capabilities.

Well, a reason I don't mind flying the "lighter" Jax (though I used to fly him with hull+AT when I ran him previous waves) is that he's:

a) the cheapest ship in the list which is a good thing if he's your opponent's highest priority. and

b) with two defenders, if my opponent goes hard after Jax they are very capable of making him/her pay.

I just flew this today and it is a pretty fun list. I ran it against a Nora/Ghost, so Juke wasn't quite as powerful as it corps be but there is a lot of punching power.

Opponents really have to think about where they want to focus first and higher PS ships really have to think through whether or not they want to spend that focus token on attack.

-Edit I'm not even sure Vess is the right second Defender for the list. I only got to use his ability twice, seriously thinking about subbing in Mr. Stele himself.

Yeah, a player who doesn't understand how to use Carnor effectively is going to just crash & burn with a list like this.

It really is a high skill floor/ceiling kind of list, so its not for the feint of heart. If you are really good with Jax though, it can own pretty much anything in the meta right now. That is why S&V gave it a high rating. It has a fair bit of 'hard-counter' potential against a number of popular lists, but that potential can drain away fast if you make any mistakes----its a very unforgiving list (because such is Carnor).

Personally, I like the archetype, but I'm not a fan of Juke, so I'd run it differently.

Having said that, its perhaps showing a bit of bias that the S&V podcast rated it highly---I think its no secret that Sozin loves Jax; although I can't blame him.....he's an evil sob...what's not to like?

Blade more or less nailed it. We believe Jax Defenders has the highest ceiling right now. That being said over 9+ games I personally prefer Palpatine Defenders.

Or Scum. I prefer Scum.

Tier S is a major stretch. I like the list in general but you have to compromise to get it on the table. Jax with PtL, auto thrusters and MkII engine is ok, but not exactly where you would want him to be in terms of durability. If you opt for Juke Ryad, she is way less annoying than PtL Ryad, and Vessery is not a great choice when you only have one other ship that can TL (and won't have the option a lot of the time). Ryad/Glaive works out ok, as does Double Glaive.

That being said this is a list that has way more bad matchups than I think the Scum & Villainy crew gave credit to which is why I don't think it is S tier.

Dengaroo has a high floor, high ceiling

Jax Defenders has a low floor, high ceiling

I think if you switched Dengaroo for Jax Defenders in S Tier is way more realistic. Dengaroo can win any match and lacks any direct hard counters (it can play around Assaj Slicer swarm by not using Zuckuss). But I agree with Blair it is dumb for the game.

...now watch Jax Defenders go win Worlds

Dengaroo has a high floor, high ceiling

Whaaaaaaaaaaat?????

Either you or I live in an alternate dimension, perhaps? I cannot fathom what is skill intensive with Dengaroo...

If Imperials win, Carnor Jax will be in the winning list.

Carnor Jax / PTL / Autothrusters / Stealth Device

I just flew this today and it is a pretty fun list. I ran it against a Nora/Ghost, so Juke wasn't quite as powerful as it corps be but there is a lot of punching power.

Opponents really have to think about where they want to focus first and higher PS ships really have to think through whether or not they want to spend that focus token on attack.

-Edit I'm not even sure Vess is the right second Defender for the list. I only got to use his ability twice, seriously thinking about subbing in Mr. Stele himself.

Yeah, with only one ship capable of generating target locks, Vessery's inclusion isn't a given. Even if the other Defender lasts the whole game, it's not always a simple thing for them both to always to be pointed at the same enemy, and the other Defender shouldn't JUST be painting targets for Vessery.

If Imperials win, Carnor Jax will be in the winning list.

Carnor Jax / PTL / Autothrusters / Stealth Device

Yeahhhh... That's unlikely. Just by the law of averages, there are plenty of matchups that go against Carnor specifically.

Now, if you were to say, "If Imperials win, a Defender will be in the winning list," I'd agree.

Dengaroo has a high floor, high ceiling

Whaaaaaaaaaaat?????

Either you or I live in an alternate dimension, perhaps? I cannot fathom what is skill intensive with Dengaroo...

That is not what I meant. I mean in terms of results, not skill level. It can win all its games (with an excellent player), but it is going to win most of its games precisely because it is solid against the field. It is a very attrition based list, it just keeps going till it wins (more often) or loses (less often).

I just flew this today and it is a pretty fun list. I ran it against a Nora/Ghost, so Juke wasn't quite as powerful as it corps be but there is a lot of punching power.

Opponents really have to think about where they want to focus first and higher PS ships really have to think through whether or not they want to spend that focus token on attack.

-Edit I'm not even sure Vess is the right second Defender for the list. I only got to use his ability twice, seriously thinking about subbing in Mr. Stele himself.

I run Maarek myself, but I can see it being a difficult choice. Vessery makes up for some of the uncertainty your red dice have in this list.

I just flew this today and it is a pretty fun list. I ran it against a Nora/Ghost, so Juke wasn't quite as powerful as it corps be but there is a lot of punching power.

Opponents really have to think about where they want to focus first and higher PS ships really have to think through whether or not they want to spend that focus token on attack.

-Edit I'm not even sure Vess is the right second Defender for the list. I only got to use his ability twice, seriously thinking about subbing in Mr. Stele himself.

I run Maarek myself, but I can see it being a difficult choice. Vessery makes up for some of the uncertainty your red dice have in this list.

Vessery can help with the variance only if his spotter is out there with him. Once Ryad goes down, Vess is a naked Glaive and at that point I have to wonder if the PS7 crit fisher is the better choice.

So how do you play Carnor in a list like this?

So how do you play Carnor in a list like this?

Basically, I run him as a flanker and play him conservatively.

So how do you play Carnor in a list like this?

Jax is basically Icarus. You fly him as close to the sun as you can until his wings burn off. The key is to enough that the two defenders can win you the game. If you have Jax and you're not using his ability you should have just brought Palp

So how do you play Carnor in a list like this?

Jax is basically Icarus. You fly him as close to the sun as you can until his wings burn off. The key is to enough that the two defenders can win you the game. If you have Jax and you're not using his ability you should have just brought Palp

That isn't quite true because even when you aren't using Jax's ability your opponent is often making choices because Jax is on the table. Additionally, the big difference between this list and Palp Defenders is that you have three closers. For me, it's the opposite in that if I'm risking Jax early, I'm not getting the most out of his ability and I should bring something else.

So how do you play Carnor in a list like this?

Jax is basically Icarus. You fly him as close to the sun as you can until his wings burn off. The key is to enough that the two defenders can win you the game. If you have Jax and you're not using his ability you should have just brought Palp

That isn't quite true because even when you aren't using Jax's ability your opponent is often making choices because Jax is on the table. Additionally, the big difference between this list and Palp Defenders is that you have three closers. For me, it's the opposite in that if I'm risking Jax early, I'm not getting the most out of his ability and I should bring something else.

I'm not advocating for you to fly him Into the meat grinder. All I'm saying is that he needs to be near the fight even if he's just herding ships away from him because they want their actions that's fine. He's not Fel he can't take sustained fire at range 3 let alone range 1 but he can tank a shot maybe 2 a round without dying(barring bad variations) Jax is good because his ability is more potent than the ship he's in, which is pretty good already. So swerve him and out of the fight make them take bad shots at him but I say use him early because his ability is better the more people you have to take advantage of the token less ships.