Yeah, I can see TIE Swarm as piece trading, though I hadn't thought of it that way myself until you mentioned it. I held it differently in my mind, but yeah, yeah, that's just what it is.

It's kinda hard to argue against the idea that a lot of players have the "Palpaces" mindset, where they have to preserve everything no matter what - even the Lambda, when it's clearly screaming to be sacrificed in a profitable trade to keep them off your aces. I screwed up my first Vader/Palpmobile game by falling prey to the idea that "Boost+BR is everything, keep Vader alive" instead of throwing him at the enemy and accepting that he'd be killed, but he'd weaken them enough for my Kenkirk to finish them off.

It's strange (to me) as a veteran wargamer that the idea of 'profitable piece trades' hasn't taken hold in X-Wing.

Not quite as far as profitable trades but the idea of certain ships being protected to act as "end game closers" has certainly caught on. Soontir, Omega Leader and anyone with Regen are all popular late-game ships because their abilities become proportionately more powerful 1-on-1. In this sense players do tend to prioritise the survival of such ships over others.

It's strange (to me) as a veteran wargamer that the idea of 'profitable piece trades' hasn't taken hold in X-Wing.

Not quite as far as profitable trades but the idea of certain ships being protected to act as "end game closers" has certainly caught on. Soontir, Omega Leader and anyone with Regen are all popular late-game ships because their abilities become proportionately more powerful 1-on-1. In this sense players do tend to prioritise the survival of such ships over others.

Trying not to lose a ship as opposed to outtrading your opponent has some huge advantages in competitive X-Wing obviously since not giving a kill to your opponent means not giving points to your opponent. And if you are the first to lose a ship you are at a severe disadvantage most of the time.

Trading exists, but mostly in the form of Blockers like a cheap A-Wing trying to block Soontir for example. You put the ship at risk in order to allow others to do the job.

Pretty often self damaging mechanics like Vader Crew or also Quickdraw are rather bad trades or don't guarantee damage. In other cases like Feedback Array, it works better, but still is only useful in certain matchups and is wasted points in others.

It's strange (to me) as a veteran wargamer that the idea of 'profitable piece trades' hasn't taken hold in X-Wing.

Not quite as far as profitable trades but the idea of certain ships being protected to act as "end game closers" has certainly caught on. Soontir, Omega Leader and anyone with Regen are all popular late-game ships because their abilities become proportionately more powerful 1-on-1. In this sense players do tend to prioritise the survival of such ships over others.

Trying not to lose a ship as opposed to outtrading your opponent has some huge advantages in competitive X-Wing obviously since not giving a kill to your opponent means not giving points to your opponent. And if you are the first to lose a ship you are at a severe disadvantage most of the time.

Trading exists, but mostly in the form of Blockers like a cheap A-Wing trying to block Soontir for example. You put the ship at risk in order to allow others to do the job.

Pretty often self damaging mechanics like Vader Crew or also Quickdraw are rather bad trades or don't guarantee damage. In other cases like Feedback Array, it works better, but still is only useful in certain matchups and is wasted points in others.

Plus, we are talking about a game where you play nearly between 2 and 4 ships. Not so much to trade with.

Swarms actually do it.

Well, I don't like Quickdraw as i don't like autodestructive ships and upgrades. They seldom pay off, but in this case it could be worthwile as you pay less than 1/3 of your list for it.

I would however better see him matched with other offensive aces instead of a Palpmobile. Just personal preference i guess, but if i already have an all offensive ship like this, why not back it up with other ones like /D Defenders or Phantoms. The battle plan is to just outdamage the opponent, not outlast him as with Palpmobile.

It's strange (to me) as a veteran wargamer that the idea of 'profitable piece trades' hasn't taken hold in X-Wing. If you lose a piece but destroy or cripple a piece of theirs that is far higher value, then you're ahead. There are some outliers, like Biggs or Bumpmaster, but for the most part players seem hyperfocused on trying not to lose pieces at all rather than admitting, "Hey, I'm going to lose SOMETHING. Might as well control what that loss is with a profitable trade and then move on from there."

Wonder if I should make a thread about it?

Though I do admit that my own plan with QD is to pair her with OmegaL, ZetaL, and either a cheap blocker or Backstabber, depending on if I can borrow Rage or if I put PTL on QD instead. Four ships, only one of which does not have a 3-dice main, seems like a better list to me personally - but I'm a bit focused on 4-ship lists myself.

I think that way a bunch.

I use a Vader/Gunner RAC as a piece trader sometimes. You use it to surgically remove the things that are threats to the ace you're running alongside it, to give him a free run through to the endgame.

It's really, really costly, and it kicks your MoV in the teeth, but it's an interesting strategy if you get the meta call right.

I can't believe people are still worried about Dengaroo. He's finished - no answer at all for anything from the last 2 or 3 releases. Defenders, ARCs, Casters, Falcon... he loses to them all.

I can't believe people are still worried about Dengaroo. He's finished - no answer at all for anything from the last 2 or 3 releases. Defenders, ARCs, Casters, Falcon... he loses to them all.

And how?

There are so many Dengaroo variant, you can't counter them all. Also, usually it is built to counter the local/current meta. You can make a Dengaroo to beat Palpace or you can make one to beat swarms or to beat whatever is most common in your aera.

Dengaroo is da best

Oops

I can't believe people are still worried about Dengaroo. He's finished - no answer at all for anything from the last 2 or 3 releases. Defenders, ARCs, Casters, Falcon... he loses to them all.

And how?

Dengaroo has massive gaping weaknesses that were exposed and exploited months ago, it's really not difficult. If your defenses rely on efficient hull/shield not green dice, and if you're not dumb enough to trigger his de one shot, it's an easy game for so many swuads. If Zuckuss isn't particularly powerful against you and you don't needlessly allow him to double tap then Dengar is just a 3 red dice threat, which is easily contained - Dengar becomes the weak point of the list, not the strength. It was solved by North American Champs and the Palpfenders pretty much can't lose to it if you play them right. Just look at the Nova meta pie chart - Dengaroo is far from dominant and many different lists are taking it down.

Well, I don't like Quickdraw as i don't like autodestructive ships and upgrades. They seldom pay off, but in this case it could be worthwile as you pay less than 1/3 of your list for it.

I would however better see him matched with other offensive aces instead of a Palpmobile. Just personal preference i guess, but if i already have an all offensive ship like this, why not back it up with other ones like /D Defenders or Phantoms. The battle plan is to just outdamage the opponent, not outlast him as with Palpmobile.

It's strange (to me) as a veteran wargamer that the idea of 'profitable piece trades' hasn't taken hold in X-Wing. If you lose a piece but destroy or cripple a piece of theirs that is far higher value, then you're ahead. There are some outliers, like Biggs or Bumpmaster, but for the most part players seem hyperfocused on trying not to lose pieces at all rather than admitting, "Hey, I'm going to lose SOMETHING. Might as well control what that loss is with a profitable trade and then move on from there."

Wonder if I should make a thread about it?

Though I do admit that my own plan with QD is to pair her with OmegaL, ZetaL, and either a cheap blocker or Backstabber, depending on if I can borrow Rage or if I put PTL on QD instead. Four ships, only one of which does not have a 3-dice main, seems like a better list to me personally - but I'm a bit focused on 4-ship lists myself.

As a long time Imperial Guard player, "Profitable Trades" are always on my mind when I'm playing x-wing. Maybe that's why I'm one of the relative few who like Quickdraw.

I would think 4 Tie Bombers with Homing Missiles would rip apart Dengar even with his Focus. I've not tried it yet, though.

I would think 4 Tie Bombers with Homing Missiles would rip apart Dengar even with his Focus. I've not tried it yet, though.

Only three of them would get to fire in round one (unless you're using Deadeye, I suppose) and they'd all be shooting against 3 defence dice, lone wolf and glitterstim.

Not easy to force through a vast amount of damage in those circumstances.

And that's not account for the fact that one of them will likely have taken at least one crit fron Dengar's first shot and isn't unlikely to be killed outright by his second.

EDIT: Ninja'd

I would think 4 Tie Bombers with Homing Missiles would rip apart Dengar even with his Focus. I've not tried it yet, though.

Only three of them would get to fire in round one (unless you're using Deadeye, I suppose) and they'd all be shooting against 3 defence dice, lone wolf and glitterstim.

Not easy to force through a vast amount of damage in those circumstances.

And that's not account for the fact that one of them will likely have taken at least one crit fron Dengar's first shot and isn't unlikely to be killed outright by his second.

You can get 4 shots through, but that does sound pretty horrible with the extra green die, Glitterstim, and Lone Wolf.

I would think 4 Tie Bombers with Homing Missiles would rip apart Dengar even with his Focus. I've not tried it yet, though.

Only three of them would get to fire in round one (unless you're using Deadeye, I suppose) and they'd all be shooting against 3 defence dice, lone wolf and glitterstim.

Not easy to force through a vast amount of damage in those circumstances.

And that's not account for the fact that one of them will likely have taken at least one crit fron Dengar's first shot and isn't unlikely to be killed outright by his second.

You can get 4 shots through, but that does sound pretty horrible with the extra green die, Glitterstim, and Lone Wolf.

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Crack Shot (1)

Extra Munitions (2)

Homing Missiles (5)

Long-Range Scanners (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Deadeye (1)

Extra Munitions (2)

Homing Missiles (5)

Guidance Chips (0)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Extra Munitions (2)

Homing Missiles (5)

Long-Range Scanners (0)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Extra Munitions (2)

Homing Missiles (5)

Long-Range Scanners (0)

Total: 100

Nope, that only gets three. Countermeasures kills one of the locks. You need four deadeyes to get all four shots off.

Where does he get the third defense die from?

Where does he get the third defense die from?

Countermeasures.

Dengaroo is not a good list anymore, speaking at only the premiere level tournament level. It was at it's full power when it was unveiled by Jeff B of Rook Squadron during the Regional season. It quickly lost a bunch of its potency as people learned its tricks and started flying a little more cautiously against it, but it also lost most of the wind in its sails when Imp Vets dropped. Defenders + X7 are much more immune to Dengar's hitting power than the smaller aces. Dengaroo can still win against a lot of lists out there, but it will lose most match-ups against a lot of the most common lists right now, such as Palp + X7 + X7 or Double Ghost + Biggs. Palp + X7 is probably going to the most common lists at Worlds, so anyone crazy enough to take Dengaroo there will rack up a few losses unless they get really lucky in match-ups and don't face X7s, somehow.

Dengaroo is not a good list anymore, speaking at only the premiere level tournament level. It was at it's full power when it was unveiled by Jeff B of Rook Squadron during the Regional season. It quickly lost a bunch of its potency as people learned its tricks and started flying a little more cautiously against it, but it also lost most of the wind in its sails when Imp Vets dropped. Defenders + X7 are much more immune to Dengar's hitting power than the smaller aces. Dengaroo can still win against a lot of lists out there, but it will lose most match-ups against a lot of the most common lists right now, such as Palp + X7 + X7 or Double Ghost + Biggs. Palp + X7 is probably going to the most common lists at Worlds, so anyone crazy enough to take Dengaroo there will rack up a few losses unless they get really lucky in match-ups and don't face X7s, somehow.

When this happened, Dengaroo in our local meta evolved with Dengar getting Deadeye + Adv. Proton Torpedoes to go throu these Defenders bastions.

Now with the Deadeye nerf, I am trying to figure out a new build.