Hello everyone!

I am wondering about the famous Dengaroo list, which seems to be a very hot list among the more professional Xwing Tournament community.

Whenever I browse Tournament results, Dengaroo can be found in the Top 3 most of the time.

The strength of this list seems to be the amazing synergy between Dengar and Manaroo, which allows Dengar to ignore a lot of the game effects like stress and grants him almost unlimited access to focus tokens. Apart from this, he can "fire back" whenever he gets attacked.

Pretty terrifying combination!

Now I would like to know, if there is something like a "natural weakness" of this list?

For example: Han Solo is almost always an auto loss against 4 TLT. Does Dengaroo have something like this too?

What kind of lists would you play against Dengaroo and why? I know the Imperials might have a few lists, but please don't forget about the rebels.

I know that most people suggest to attack Manaroo first. But isn't it pretty difficult to catch this ship, because of its large base, its dial, barrel roll and so on?

Can "slow" ships like B-Wings catch her at all?

Against Dengaroo either

Something with Dash (hunt Manaroo)

TIE-swarm (there is a page where someone has beaten Dengaroo 4 times in a row with 7 TIE)

Low agility ships

Outmaneuver can be interesting too

But the most important thing is to get practice against the list. It has some weak points. For example when you know that the enemy wants to get you in firing arc to trigger Dengars ability

The "Commonwealth Defenders" list absolutely crushes Dengaroo:

Colonel Vessery + Juke + TIE/x7

Countess Ryad + Push the Limit + Twin Ion Engines MkII + TIE/x7

Omicron Group Pilot + Emperor Palpatine + Collision Detector

100 points

I've played the matchup seven times now, and haven't lost a single one of them. The only two games to be remotely close still ended with two of my ships alive, one of them a near-full health Defender.

The advantages this list has are that the Defenders are more than fast enough to catch Manaroo, particularly given she moves first, and have the health and defences to safely ignore Dengar while they go hunt her down. The combination of Vessery & Juke puts Manaroo in a difficult spot; if she passes tokens to Dengar, Juke becomes a better Crack Shot. If she hangs on to the tokens for defence, Vessery gets free target locks. Dengar, meanwhile, is basically forced to waste time on the shuttle before he can consistently damage the Defenders, making the Mana hunt easier again. And once Manaroo goes down, Vessery's Juke becomes permanent Crack Shot and he can almost solo Dengar.

Another list which does really well is Corran + Wes + Biggs. Wes can shut down the Focus shenanigans, allowing Corran to get in for massive damage, and Biggs forces Dengar to split his fire awkwardly. But it is possible for Dengaroo to make itself more-or-less immune by running Recon Specialist on Manaroo and Overclocked R4 on Dengar, so this isn't the most reliable counter.

@DR4CO

Which third ship would you suggest for the "Commonwealth Defenders", if you didn't have the Palpshuttle?

@DR4CO

Which third ship would you suggest for the "Commonwealth Defenders", if you didn't have the Palpshuttle?

The two best options would be Omega Leader with Juke, Comms Relay, and then a Stealth Device for either her or Vessery, or a Delta Squadron Pilot with TIE/x7. I would still play the matchup the same way; Manaroo must die ASAP, and don't bother with Dengar until she's gone.

But it must be said that neither will be as good in this particular match (though they do have pros in others). The shuttle makes such a big difference just by forcing Dengar's target priority, buying you time for the Mana hunt. Without it Dengar's free to start pushing damage on your main threats immediately. You'd still be favoured, but wouldn't have the near-invincibility of the Palpatine version.

Thanks DR4CO. That sounds like a good list against Dengaroo, which would also be useful against a lot of other matchups.

Is there such a great option for the rebels, too?

As suggested Commonwealth has a really good matchup against Dengaroo.

It's my list of choice and is thus far undefeated against Dengaroo. I've found that the list cam actually all out focus and kill Dengar before hunting Manaroo.

The consens is:

Everything which adds an evade result cannot be forced to reroll by Zuckuss

- Palpatine

- x7 Defender title

- Latts Razzi crew

- Jan Ors crew

- Comm Relay

Against stressed ships:

Black Market Slicer Tools

Latts Razzi

(Eaden Vrill)

Reduce Dengars agility:

Outmaneuver

Tractor beam (Shadowcaster skills)

Wedge

Latts Razzi (pilot)

Intimidation EPT (e.g. on jumpmaster)

Distractions:

Biggs (with R4-D6)

Anti-Target locks (against 1st encounter)

Higher Pilot skill

Counter Measures

Expert Handling

Black one title (T-70)

Manaroo hunters:

Dash

New Han (TFA)

Some Aces

Rerollers:

Zuckuss

B11 droid

Against enemy attacks

R7 droid

M9 droid

Your rerollers (enemy cannot force younto reroll a rerolled defense die)

Lone wolf

Navigator (expensive)

Another great replacement for Palp Shuttle, that in my humble opinion actually performs better in many cases, is Deathfire with Long Range Scanners, Homing Missiles, Conner Net and Extra Munitions. From my experience defenders don't need palp for protection as much as interceptors because they can soak a hit or three without much trouble. They don't need him for offense either because they both get target locks and focus in most cases. What they do need is extra firepower to take out one ship quickly (it makes the rest of the game much easier), extra control against sneaky arc dodgers and something to distract the enemy so they don't get focused early on and can shoot with impunity. Deathfire provides all 3 and I have actually beat Commonwealth defenders with him.

I've had some success with Asajj Ventress with Engine upgrade and Latts Razzi crew.

Latts is very good against Dengar and an engined up Shadowcaster can 5 and boost after a fleeing manaroo. (And a stressed manaroo helps take some of the sting off Dengar).

I'm contemplating burnout slam on asajj when i eventually get HOTR. 5 and 5 to get right amongst Manaroo on turn 1 could be fun.

Amd lightrock swings in with the true hero of imp vets

Though really i only played him because ******* everyone plays palp over here in empire city, the little guy is pretty **** good

Because homing missiles and conners are very **** good

Amd, unlike evrry other conner platform, dfire diesnt cost a third of your dang list

I am not so convinced about the commonwealth list.

A few reasons are that catching and killing Manaroo with EU is not nearly as easy as you say. Manaroo with EU is actually a lot faster than the defenders, but you can at least force a boost.

What is true is that you have very good survivability between X7 evades and Palpy. But it's nothing Dengar could not overcome in a few turns shooting.

If you ask me it's rather 50/50 than a hard counter. But it's one of the few squads that can give Dengaroo a run for its money.

Dash is pretty solid in the matchup, but only if you can sneak past Dengar somehow in order to get shots at Manaroo.

What i don't get is why they nerfed U-Boats but left Dengaroo completely unaffected. After all it produced better results than U-Boats lately...

Actually fickle, my initial reason for using him was pretty much the same as yours - i didn't want to play palp shuttle because everyone else played it too. Besides, I'm not fond of lambda very much.

But then I started using him and **** if he isn't MVP of most of my matches. If I can use 2 out of 4 pieces of ordnance I've got on him, in 90% of the cases the match is won. And it's really not that hard to use 2 of them. All he has to do is survive 1 round of fire.

Actually fickle, my initial reason for using him was pretty much the same as yours - i didn't want to play palp shuttle because everyone else played it too. Besides, I'm not fond of lambda very much.

But then I started using him and **** if he isn't MVP of most of my matches. If I can use 2 out of 4 pieces of ordnance I've got on him, in 90% of the cases the match is won. And it's really not that hard to use 2 of them. All he has to do is survive 1 round of fire.

mine would be MVP if everyone weren't so fond of treating him like Biggs, even when he's not being Biggs

but hey, Biggs is still really **** good in a faction without Biggs

Oh yeah. He's totally Biggs. 6 HP, 2 agi and everyone wants to kill him.

Except you don't have to fly in formation.

And unlike Biggs he actually hits like a truck.

And he provides target lock for Vessery.

And he ionizes things.

And he's faster and has barrel roll.

Overall, not a bad deal for 2 points more .

Stress Manny. Once she gets two stress tokens she is quite useless. And if figting against the PTL Recon Spec version she is dead in the water.

My build when Dec hits, hunt Manaroo first.

Kylo Ren — Upsilon-class Shuttle 34 Expose 4 Reinforced Deflectors 3 Agent Kallus 2 Darth Vader 3 Anti-Pursuit Lasers 2 Kylo Ren's Shuttle 2 Ship Total: 50

Black Squadron Pilot — TIE Fighter 14 Crack Shot 1 Ship Total: 15

Black Squadron Pilot — TIE Fighter 14 Crack Shot 1 Ship Total: 15

"Howlrunner" — TIE Fighter 18 Crack Shot 1 Ship Total: 19

(or an ace and an AP)

If you ask me it's rather 50/50 than a hard counter.

Having played the matchup a fair bit, it's closer to 80-20. And that's me being generous. Dengaroo needs bizarre dice variance and severe mistakes from the Defender player before he's even got a chance.

You deploy after Mana, so cutting off escape avenues is almost trivial. And she's not that fast in a straight line, particularly while clearing stress. Unless she has Unhinged, but that means no Painbot and you have even more time to hunt her down. And even if she gives you the slip for a turn it hardly matters; just come about and lay another trap while Dengar tries in vain to do meaningful damage.

Oh yeah. He's totally Biggs. 6 HP, 2 agi and everyone wants to kill him.

Except you don't have to fly in formation.

And unlike Biggs he actually hits like a truck.

And he provides target lock for Vessery.

And he ionizes things.

And he's faster and has barrel roll.

Overall, not a bad deal for 2 points more .

I'm going to have to try this.

Deathfire is great! His Homing Missiles make him a real threat, and in the match versus Dengaroo his LRS can be amusing - take your first lock on Manaroo and then force your opponent to squirm when combat arrives and they face the prospect of throwing a lock for Vessery onto Dengar.

Plus, Connors are ruthless versus any lisy that relies on 1 or 2 key ships. Hit Dengar and he'll coast out of position while you hammer Manaroo, and if you're fortunate enough to Connor Manaroo she'll practically be dead already.

I still like Tomax, but I've come to love Deathfire and he's a worthy Dengar soft counter.

So, by now there are two options for Rebels.

The first would be Corran + Wes + Biggs, which means bringing two wave 1 ships with the least possible replacement options (no barrel roll or anything) and only 5 HP.

Somehow it feels like they're going to be eaten alive by Dengar in 2 rounds. Maybe 3 or 4 rounds because of Biggs.

I wonder if an average player would even get anywhere close Manaroo to fire some shots by then.

The seconds option is Dash, which might actually work. But somehow it is one of the ships I personally don't like, being a rebel player myself.

This ship feels broken, because it can go everywhere, shoot everywhere with 4 dice.

Maybe that's a suitable answer to Dengaroo, because Dengaroo is even more broken.

Thanks so far But are there any more options or good ideas?

What about the new ships? Do you think that ARCs might work against Dengaroo? What about the new T-70s from the Heroes expansion? What about Rey or the Falcon in general?

I've beaten Dengaroo with speed lists (e.g. 4 A-wings, PTL Jake plus Greens with a mix of Prockets and Crack Shot). If you have the speed, you can ignore Dengar and chase Manaroo down quickly and kill her.

That A-wing list does suffer a bit against Defenders, though, as once the Prockets are gone and Crack Shots are spent, you're relying on extreme dice luck for the two base attack dice to punch through the x7's defenses while surviving the return shots.

Dengaroo has been my easiest matchup to beat . I am certain it has everything to do with focusing down manaroo and completely ignoring dengar until she's gone.

What about the new ships? Do you think that ARCs might work against Dengaroo? What about the new T-70s from the Heroes expansion? What about Rey or the Falcon in general?

ARCs do work well against them, as long as they have a Biggs nursing them. Biggs can soak some damage in the initial pass, and Tailgunner works wonders when all Dengar can roll in defence is 1 green.

In addition, Zuckuss is not so useful against low agility ships like ARCS and if you bring a stressmule you can shut down Manaroo if she comes in arc

Dengaroo has been my easiest matchup to beat . I am certain it has everything to do with focusing down manaroo and completely ignoring dengar until she's gone.

2 main considerations -

1. Stay out of range one of Dengar, otherwise ignore him, and you're essentially concerning yourself with a 3 dice and 2 dice attack a turn.

Fully modded perhaps, and with Zuckuss to Richard over your defence, but nevertheless, survivable.

2. Catching Manaroo.

She's pretty damned elusive.

I've only played a few games against dengaroo lists, but they have all been super close, whether I won or lost.

So while it's a strong list, I wouldnt put in my OP squad lists.

If your list has at least 3 ships, and none of them will die super quick, I say go head on with dengar and try to blow him away. Then you just have manaroo who only has 2 attack dice (and maybe a torp).