Dear all,

So I've bought Talisman + expansions a couple of months ago. In less than four weeks we've played around 25+ games. Yes, that's how much we liked it. I apologize in advance for the perhaps unoriginal question but I have to ask it. Are there any other games in the style of Talisman? By that I mean a nicely painted board and minis. I've tried Runebound too but the board and the cards are no way so neat as those for Talisman. Not to mention the rules which are a little bit more complicated than Talisman's. I've also heard about The Return of the Heroes, which is supposed to be in the Talisman vein but I cant find it anywhere. Any other suggestions are most welcome.

Many thanks!
Orientalist

Another one you might look into is Mythgardia. It is by the original creator of Talisman. One expansion has already been created for it.

www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/45351/mythgardia

www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/61080/mythgardia-expansion-set

www.harris-authors.com/mythgardia.html

The Return of the Heroes is out of print. It will likely not be reissued, though you may try to search for it on ebay. You can also check the sellers links for its entry at Board Game Geeks.

www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/8170/return-of-the-heroes

The closest thing I could find is Return of the Heroes: Under the Shadow of the Dragon, but I suspect it might not be playable without the base game. I cannot tell if it is a standalone variation or an expansion. Perhaps others here might know more.

www.boardsandbits.com/product_info.php

You might also be interested in the following write up on Talisman and similar games.

www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/340472/4-way-comparison-of-return-of-the-heroes-runebound

Personally, I like Runebound... not more than Talisman, just in different ways. If you're looking for dominant player to player interaction, not necessarily within the actual game world, Runebound is not for you. If you're looking for more of an adventure orientation in an environment where choices and control are slightly more prevalent, then Runebound is the closest thing to Talisman that I've seen that leans that way without turning into full FRPG inside a boardgame.

Tremendous thanks, JCHendee! I will look into Prophecy and Mythgardia, two games I never heard before. The thing is, I want to like Runebound, I honestly want to but the playing cards put me off completely. I simply cannot enjoy a game with such awful artwork. I am not speaking about the character cards but the actual adventure cards, monster cards and so on. Runebound feature some of the ugliest artworks I've found in a board game. The board itself is not better either. The board for Runebound is certainly not comparable to the one for Talisman, which I love.

Maybe I should try one of the Runebound Expansions... The artwork for the cards for Sands of Al-Kalim seems moodier and not so computer-generated.

P.S. I apologize for my English. Not my first language.

Orientalist said:

I think I can sort of see what you mean, though the artwork "style" didn't affect me either way. It does have something of an "animation" (not anime) look to a lot of it. I sort of like the boards "terrain" look, myself, but I can also see it as off-putting for some. My wife sometimes has a hard time distinguishing some of the terrain types like hills vs mountains.

Orientalist said:

Ah, never worry about that. Those of us who are hopelessly monoligual, having only one language, should appreciate anyone willing to bridge the language gap for us.

Orientalist said:

Are you kidding? Your English is great!

I understand why some would be disappointed in the Runebound board. I ordered Runebound after years of talisman playing. My excitement upon opening the box was slightly diminished when I saw the board, which is far less detailed than Talisman's. But one play of Runebound taught me two things:

1.) Packing an amount of atmospheric detail equal to that of Talisman's board onto Runebound would be impossible due to the grand scale of the latter in comparison to the former.

2.) While Talisman offers rich artwork, which, to me, draws the player into its world more so than Runebound, Runebound's freedom of movement is something Talisman simply doesn't have. It really feels like you're going on a journey when travelling from Talimar to Frostgate! That's a feeling I love.

I do, however, have a few [minor] gripes about Talisman's current art, which is discussed in the link below:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=49&efcid=1&efidt=235945

It's very interesting that this thread should be started. In my free time I've been creating a game of my own with hopes to combine the strengths of the two games discussed here and with added lore and miscellaneous content of my own. Searching craft and hardware stores for the perfect materials with which to make the game board has been challenging, but I'm starting to see fruitful results! Can't wait to play it with my friends. I'll post pictures if and when it is completed.

Well, overall, graphics and looks are nice, but they do not make - never have made - a game. What makes a game a success with the general populace or just those of its target audience / market is what happens in the game when players interactively invest themselves. That only happens if there is something beyond the beauty, which is only skin - I mean paper - deep.

Their is no discounting Runebounds success. So successful that it has... had so many expansions that I'm overwhelm to think about it, considering I only recently got into it now that it is being retired from development for its successor. And overall, the graphics in Talisman, good as some are, never swayed me one way or another. They are good, not great, and certainly not what made me buy the newest edition.

As another example, I don't like wargaming. Did some when I was young and was utterly bored with the kind of people I met. But Runebound captured my attention enough, even for some things I don't like in its mechanics, that I am willing to see how Runewars comes out. I'll see how well it does or does not balance fantasy gaming with characters and fantasy wargaming in general. I have doubts, but I'm watching attentively... and it ain't because of the way its promo graphics look. If anything, some have had the opposite of the intended effect upon me.

Put a numbnuts in an Armani business suit, groom him in shiny town, pump him with empty titles and rumors... and he's still a numbnuts when he opens his mouth. A game has to be more than that if it is going to last as long as Talisman or Runebound... or Monopoly.

Very nicely put JC. This is the kind of problem Mythgardia had on its launch. People were swayed by the graphics (which are rather quaint I feel) and did not consider that it might actually be a good game.

If someone's imagination cannot see beyond the glitz and bling, there is something very wrong...

I don't think anyone ever said "I hate this or that game because my puny imagination cannot function without high quality artwork." I don't know if you'll find a person (around here anyway) who relies solely on looks for the enjoyability of their games/gaming experiences. However, good things can nearly always be improved, as is the case, in many opinions, with Talisman's artwork. I'll recommend Talisman to friends all day long; I'll play it more than any other game as I've done for a decade and a half. There isn't much bad you'd ever hear me speak about it except for a few minor qualms. So I certainly shouldn't be faulted for preferring one edition's painting over another, nor for wishing that the current elf's portrait didn't look so much like he just stepped out of the salon.

Personally, I'm glad that game makers hire artists to aid in the bringing to life of their games. I think the aesthetics of a game are a huge contributor to its feel and enjoyability. Not so much as the lore, gameplay, and yes, the player's mind, but huge nonetheless. I'd be disgruntled if I were an artist who heard someone say of my work "Oh, that? it's nice, but me and my friends don't need it because we have imaginations."

I don't doubt that Mythgardia is a spectacular game, and I hope to play it one day, but from what I've seen of it I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to hear that it didn't do well at its launch. People shouldn't be called foolish for not taking interest in a game that, upon first impression, appears to have employed a seven-year-old to illustrate the thing. I don't know much about the processes one takes to publish a board game, I'm sure budgeting is tricky, but I would've splurged a bit more in the art dept. The picture of the troll made me chuckle.

That being said - Talisman and Runebound are just incredible games overall, as I assume Mythgardia is as well.

MegaDestroyo said:

Perhaps not solely, but predominantly, yes. And just such an attitude has been seen here. And when others point out that the underlying game is either superior or... my the powers forbid... fails in part or whole, they turn into sycophants in their tantrums.

That aside, your point is taken. I've been listening to too many of the dazzled-eyed of late, those susceptible to and ignorant of having their internal reptile brain punched too often until they can't actually think beyond their senses. I should have framed my perspective from in the more general, specifically, and not made you feel like you were a primary target. I humbly apologize, very much so.

But my point still stands.

As with all new games, like Mythgardia or Talisman in its first edition, they off on a budget so tight that most players of the later fully commercial editions couldn't imagine... or don't want to. The later editions of Talisman didn't really add as much as they altered slightly what was already there... and then undated graphics (re-packaged) to make a newer edition look like it was something newer than it was.

Please keep this in mind with your own game. Don't burn too much time scavenging for graphics and other physical game parts. Get the core of it fully playable, then just add whatever is quick and cheap to get it into public action. In the end that is what real (long-term) players are after. That is why Talisman 2E is still the most widely played edition (by people I've talked to) in eastern Europe. Those looking for "pretty" won't stick with it anyway, no matter how good it is. They are like hormone driven adolescents whose ardor turns elsewhere in an instant when the next "pretty" catches their eye. This syndrome has gotten worse and worse over the years as I've watched it spread through varied aspects of society.

Don't trust their assessment of anything... including your game. So don't worry about pleasing them. Monopoly -- or Backgammon, THE game of balanced chance and skill by the top probability and game theorists -- hasn't lasted as long as it has because its pretty.

Real atmosphere is generated in play, not packaging. And some of us are probably curious enough to do some play testing when you're ready.

Hmm...

Well, I think Talisman Revised 4th Edition is obviously trying to emulate the design of Magic: The Gathering. So if it's art you're looking for, I'd start with Magic: The Gathering. I'm personally not crazy about this look, and prefer the old Saturday morning cartoon look of Runebound, or the slightly unhinged style of Games Workshop's Talisman 3rd Edition. (I'm old, and my tastes reflect the style of my youth.)

In terms of play mechanics, Talisman is very much a product of the 1980s. The core mechanic of the game: -> roll die -> move -> draw card -> do what card says -> repeat steps clockwise around the table - was very common back then. The two closest games that come to mind are The Dark Tower, which is a highly sought-after rarity today, and Talisman's predessessor: The Classic Dungeon. Neither game has been in print for years. The Classic Dungeon is like an extremely simplified version of Talisman for kids, but its quick to play, and it can be a lot of fun if you are in the mood for a short, mindless game. The Dark Tower is like Talisman but with an electronic tower instead of cards. Another old game that is Talisman-esque is the wonderful

Modern board game designers prefer strategy to randomness, and generally don't make games like Talisman. They are considered juvenile. Runebound, in my opinion, went too far in trying to beef up the mechanics to make it 'more mature'. I think that was Runebound's downfall. Talisman, The Dark Tower, The Classic Dungeon and Fireball Island were all fun games because of their simplicity.

(By the way, be sure to check out the Dark Tower link... Orson Welles!)

Interesting links, L.G. Will definitely look into them.

Overall, to me MTG'a motif's lean more to Runebound 2.0 than Talisman... but leaner, with more room for real game content.

Fireball Island looks fun to have.

I have actually never heard of the Dark Tower or Classic Dungeon.

Thanks for sharing it with us

I owned them all at one point. Now all I have left is Dungeon.

Fireball Island has a huge cult following. A google search will turn up tons of websites devoted to it. The thing about Fireball Island was that the box was huge, so trying to trade it today online costs you a fortune in shipping. Last time I checked, a fully loaded copy trades for $200+ before shipping, and because of the game's size, the boxes are almost always beat up from long periods in storage. Regarding game play, Fireball Island was not nearly as complex as Talisman. It actually quite simple, and it got a bit repetitive after a few games, but the fun board and the marble fireballs definitely appeal to the imaginative board gamer.

Dark Tower is even more rare. The electronic tower wasn't made to last forever, and most copies that turn up today are broken. A mint, working copy could sell for $500.

I have a boardbame from : The Warlock of Firetop Mountain.

The Title is coming from their own fighting fantasy books from Steve jackson.

It works with filing cards(encounter pieces) that you must place random on the board.

The battles are somewhere the same idea as talisman.

Based upon the astonishingly successful Fighting Fantasy gamebook, Steve Jackson’s The Warlock of Firetop Mountain is a truly great game that can be enjoyed by 2 to 6 players. You won’t need a degree in calculus to understand the rules, but even the most sophisticated gamers will find endless hours of enjoyment as they stalk the dungeons in search of glory! With its extra-large playing board and clear, colourful counters, The Warlock of Firetop Mountain sets new standards in game design – but above everything else its dimply great fun!

WHAT YOU GET

A huge, full-colour, six-piece Playing Board, stunningly designed by award-winning artist Dave Andrews
6 different plastic Playing Pieces – the heroic adventurers!
15 full-colour Key Challenge Cards – clues that’ll lead to the Warlock’s treasure!
77 full-colour Encounter pieces – ghastly monsters, deadly traps – and fabulous treasures!
6 Maze Cards – ensuring the Warlock’s intriguing maze is never the same!
A pad of 50 Adventure Sheets
Clear and concise Rulebook
1 Monster Reference Card
2 Dice
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The Warlock of Firetop Mountain book:

Actually, since the monsters have more than 1 Life and you roll 2d6, combats in Warlock take longer than in Talisman, but also offer the option of escaping. Unlike in Talisman where the monster you fought this round forgets about you when it's your next turn to move, in Warlock you fight until one of you is dead, or you escape.

Dam said:

That's right, but it's a nice game for your collection.

i wanted to said something about it in this topic

Sure. Warlock has PvP, in fact, PvP is pretty much a must in most games, unless you get lucky with the Skeleton Keys (I think that's what they're called, items that you can use if you don't have the right key, I have the Finnish version). The ending key challenge is pretty meh for me personally, other than that, it's a solid game, though since the key challenge is a Clue-like figure it out system, 2-player makes the whole figuring out which keys you need moot.

Thanks for the new leads, V. I'll start looking about to learn more about it.