What you guys are describing sounds cool and all but it sounds too much like a completely new game. Flipping the roles just doesn't sound like something you can do. The entire game balance of the units, leaders and missions revolves around the objectives and asymmetry of the sides.

What you guys are describing sounds cool and all but it sounds too much like a completely new game. Flipping the roles just doesn't sound like something you can do. The entire game balance of the units, leaders and missions revolves around the objectives and asymmetry of the sides.

Right, which is why some new components would definitely be needed. Trust me, I wouldn't expect FFG to cook up a batch of new stuff and ship it out without some playtesting and balance.

I need to stop commenting on these threads. ForgottenLore, I meant I was not saying there would not be a new edition, just there wouldn't be an expansion UNLESS they released a new edition. And regards to the product codes, I have rechecked that part and it is always a 2nd or 3rd edition where they start to modify the model. Again TI is the perfect example. They are on, what, 3rd editin before they released expansions? I don't believe FFG had TI before 3rd edition. Correct me if I am wrong on that.

Hey man, I'm not trying to "troll" you or anything, just trying to clarify where you're coming from. Are you saying that expansions aren't released for 1st editions of games for FFG?

I have 6 waves of expansions for Imperial Assault with a 7th on the way, so if that's what you mean, I don't think it's correct. And if the argument is that miniature games don't count, look no further than Eldritch Horror.

I guess I just fail to see why they need to "modify the model" of a game before releasing expansions.

No, that is not what I am saying. If you look at the product code, you can tell if anything is planned for the game. Rebellion's code says it no expansions planned. The comment about the edition is that games that have product codes that say they are not going to get an expansion, and have gotten an expansion, (ie Twilight Imperium), have been later editions. Also, note that nothing else was announced at release. That also means they have no plans to release any expansions.

Now, as a caveat,I am also saying if they release second edition Rebellion, all bets are off .

What you guys are describing sounds cool and all but it sounds too much like a completely new game. Flipping the roles just doesn't sound like something you can do. The entire game balance of the units, leaders and missions revolves around the objectives and asymmetry of the sides.

Right, which is why some new components would definitely be needed. Trust me, I wouldn't expect FFG to cook up a batch of new stuff and ship it out without some playtesting and balance.

Exactly. It would have to be carefully, thoughtfully done; and it would play more like a spinoff game of Rebellion than just an expansion on the Core Game. But I'd much rather a spinoff than an even heftier, longer version of the core game. The basic rules for combat, movement, and hero activation would remain the same. But the mission decks, objective deck, and project deck would have to be changed. The new objective deck would probably be given to the Imperial player: each card would give him an assignment, and if completed would earn him a point. Once the Imperial player has accumulated five points, the Death Star is fully operational and he wins. I haven't given much thought about how or where the Death Star plans are hidden, but the probe deck would be given to the Rebel player to help them narrow down their search. Both mission decks would be altered to focus on each side's new objectives. Essentially, it would be a lot of new cards to take into account the flipping of roles. However, the military balance and the way heroes interact need not change. It would take some fine-tuning to balance this well, but a change like this is totally within the asymmetrical spirit of the game and preserves many of the core rules. And FFG gets paid the big bucks to fine-tune this and make sure the balance works out! The cherry on top is allowing some of the more generic missions and the different heroes to be included in a normal game of Rebellion, if a player wanted. Make a list of substitutions (drop X, Y, and Z villains to include A, B, and C villains from the expansion), and you're golden.

I'd be much more interested in an expansion like the above, which does something different, than an expansion which simply adds more "stuff" to the base game. The base game doesn't need more heroes, units, or cards to clog things up. But the core rules mechanics are pretty brilliant, and a new way to utilize them would be great.

I need to stop commenting on these threads. ForgottenLore, I meant I was not saying there would not be a new edition, just there wouldn't be an expansion UNLESS they released a new edition. And regards to the product codes, I have rechecked that part and it is always a 2nd or 3rd edition where they start to modify the model. Again TI is the perfect example. They are on, what, 3rd editin before they released expansions? I don't believe FFG had TI before 3rd edition. Correct me if I am wrong on that.

Hey man, I'm not trying to "troll" you or anything, just trying to clarify where you're coming from. Are you saying that expansions aren't released for 1st editions of games for FFG?

I have 6 waves of expansions for Imperial Assault with a 7th on the way, so if that's what you mean, I don't think it's correct. And if the argument is that miniature games don't count, look no further than Eldritch Horror.

I guess I just fail to see why they need to "modify the model" of a game before releasing expansions.

No, that is not what I am saying. If you look at the product code, you can tell if anything is planned for the game. Rebellion's code says it no expansions planned. The comment about the edition is that games that have product codes that say they are not going to get an expansion, and have gotten an expansion, (ie Twilight Imperium), have been later editions. Also, note that nothing else was announced at release. That also means they have no plans to release any expansions.

Now, as a caveat,I am also saying if they release second edition Rebellion, all bets are off .

Huh, I wasn't aware of that. I'll have to look into it.

Seems kind of weird that they'd pigeonhole themselves in like that, if this is true. Like, if a game unexpectedly does well, they might want to consider expansions.

Not really. It is about marketing and release strategy. They have the design and release sched in hand WELL in advance. Not like they decide, you know, this needs an expansion, let's put it out next month. Rushing these things leads to ET the Video Game

Not really. It is about marketing and release strategy. They have the design and release sched in hand WELL in advance. Not like they decide, you know, this needs an expansion, let's put it out next month. Rushing these things leads to ET the Video Game

No one is saying anything should be rushed. We're saying a company should allow itself to release an expansion if a game ends up doing well and there is potential for an expansion. Releasing a new version of the game with updated rules and mechanics isn't necessary to release an expansion.

And I never said a NEW version wouldn't be released. I am saying there won't be any expansions UNLESS there is a new version.

Again TI is the perfect example. They are on, what, 3rd editin before they released expansions? I don't believe FFG had TI before 3rd edition. Correct me if I am wrong on that.

TI is the game FFG was built on. It is Christian Peterson's (FFG's head honcho) baby. I'm not sure if it was the game he founded the company on, but it was pretty early. 1st edition had, I think, 2 rules expansions, plus an expansion that was just plastic minis (because the core box didn't have minis, just cardboard chits).

2nd edition included a lot of the stuff that was in the expansions (including, I think, minis), but still got its own expansion at some point. (I never actually got to play 2nd).

However, that's just a side note on the history of TI, both of those versions and FFG itself were veeeery different animals compared to what they are now. Component quality was pretty low and rules, while not bad, were fairly straightforward and very ameritrash-y. FFG basically reinvented itself with TI 3. The rules were redesigned from the ground up and included a lot of lessons learned from eurogames and the board game revolution happening then and component quality jumped several thousand percent.

For all intents and purposes, FFG became a new company, and TI a new game when they published 3rd.

And as I mentioned before, Christian's goal when he created TI 3 was for the entire game to be a single purchase, with no expansions. But we still got 2 expansions.

Your simply reading more into the product codes than is warranted.

That said, I agree that an expansion for rebellion is not likely. While it is a nice, solid game, the low level of activity on this forum suggests that it simply isn't popular enough for FFG to devote the resources needed for an expansion.

I think the product codes are a very strong indicator of what FFG will do with a game. As I stated earlier, you don't exactly rush this stuff, so, if any expansions are planned, they will know well before release. Partner that with FFGs current release schedule, (I mean ALL products, not just Star Wars), and they are quite a busy company. So, again, I think you can quite confidently say Rebellion, first edition will get no expansions. I think TI is the exception that proves the rule, so to speak.

As an aside, I didn't realise FFG and TI came from the same guy. Thank you for the history lesson, (seriously, thank you, always fun knowing that stuff). Further to that aside, and correct me if I am wrong, wasn't first AND second ed TI a different company? Did he sell it and then get it back or did it follow him to different companies?

I guess I still don't get it. You think that if a game does well, maybe a year later when talk about the possibility of an expansion, FFG is gonna be like "well, you better make a 2nd Edition first, because we simply cannot do that since it's not written in the product code"?

I don't know, I mean I can't say for certain you're wrong, but it seems like a ridiculous situation. Could you maybe explain exactly what it is about the product code that has led you to believe this, and provide previous examples of games that adhere to this trend?

It would be interesting to have an actual FFG designer weigh in on this- I'm sure they have better stuff to do and likely won't even see this thread, but I'm curious. Like I said, I'm not calling you a liar, Hersh, just that I'm a little doubtful about this.

Also, the forums here are a little slow, but on BGG there's more discussion, and it's been in the Hot Games section of that site all year, still holding a relatively high position. I think if FFG is still pumping out Eldritch Horror expansions for those few of us still keeping up to date, they'd be missing an opportunity by not putting out a single Rebellion one.

You don't have to believe it. You don't have to believe my guarantee. And if they do release an expansion before a second edition I will happily apologise and admit I was wrong. Until then....

You don't have to believe it. You don't have to believe my guarantee. And if they do release an expansion before a second edition I will happily apologise and admit I was wrong. Until then....

There's nothing to apologize for- I don't consider this an argument or altercation, friend.

Nor do I think the lack of an expansion is proof, either way. I'm just interested in this product code thing you were talking about, and was hoping you'd be able to go into a little more detail.

Fair enough. This thread has occurred MANY times and I have explained it many times. However, because you asked nicely....

The product code I keep talking about is actually quite simple. IF it has planned expansions, the code has three letters. If not, it has two. The exception being Twillight Imperium, (which is on third edition which was one of my earlier points). When you factor in the length of time that an expansion takes to put out, (from concept to design to fabrication to shipping to release, etc), I think you can very confidently say Rebellion, first edition, will not get an expansion. Which is what I have been saying al along, (just not always as eruditely as I would like).

And the apology would be for how vehemently I have denied an expansion would happen.

Arkham Horror, Eldritch Horror, Elder Sign, Blood Bowl, XCOM, Call of Cthulhu, Chaos in the Old World, Battle of Westeros, Civilization, Letters From Whitechapel, Game of Thrones and TI all have 2 letters in the name and many expansions. Some of those games had expansions announced prior to the game being released.

Hersh, I understand you have seen a pattern. I don't see the same pattern. I think its largely arbitrary. It might be better to present it as a theory of yours with 12 known exceptions than a definite thing. That will allow people to draw their own conclusions about its truth rather than take your word on it. It will also lead to less arguments over the topic when you bring it up.

And many of those are second editions or later.

And many of those are second editions or later.

2 out of 12 are second edition or later. I would categorize that as a couple not many. 10 of them are exceptions to your theory, which does not support it as something that one can rely on 100%.

My core premise is that the codes of 2 v 3 are largely arbitrary and are not meant to code for expansions or not. I am not asking you to change your stance, I am just suggesting that you present it as less of a sure thing and more of a theory with a number of exceptions as that seems closer to what it is.

Maybe now we can get back to the topic of how the game should be expanded.

Well, Rogue 1 adds a bunch of new planets.

As the movie is fairly recent, there's more on expansion thoughts in the spoiler:

The only way I can see them adding new planets is via an entirely new board (unlikely) or, more likely, a handful of map overlays that replace existing planets with new ones. This could be kind of cool as a way to change up travel lanes as well, perhaps increasing or decreasing the importance and "travelability" or some systems.

On the other hand, I really like the idea of planets that don't only offer military units on build turns. It could be cool to see a research base allow the Empire to draw a project card instead of providing a build, or some sort of listening base that let the Empire draw an additional probe card on a build turn. The Rebels could use the listening base to look at their next Objective Card and elect to put it at the bottom of the pile, and use the research base to randomly discard a mission card from the Imperial player's hand (though starting missions would just be immediately returned to the Imperial player's hand). Nothing too powerful, but small logistical benefits to each side that represent the way this conflict unfolded outside of the military arena.

Well, Rogue 1 adds a bunch of new planets.

As the movie is fairly recent, there's more on expansion thoughts in the spoiler:

Most new planets are research based, Eadu and Scarif notably. Wobani is a prison planet, might produce a stormtrooper (as Salusa Secundus in Dune, the planet where the Sardaukar are trained). Then there's that asteroid base full of scum and villainy.

This would lead me to suggest an expansion to do stuff with research. make it easier to get extra projects or intelligence, not so much in the production area of the game. Battling for planets that let you draw more probe cards or let you see what Imps have already probed.

A new map board with a few planets, or a few tokens to add to existing planets.

I'd love a more research based expansion. Maybe give the Imperials a secret base similar to the Rebel base space, where they could perform research missions for bigger/faster rewards. The Rebels could play new mission cards when they think they have it figured out:

Built on Hope

When you perform this mission, move any number of troops from the hidden base to this system. If the space is the Imperial Research Base, draw one objective or one mission for each 3 units of damage assigned to an Imperial unit during this conflict, and score 2 reputation at the battle's conclusion.

I don't know if we could realistically add new planets, but it might be cool to at least bring in new heroes. New technologies would be nice, too- TIE Striker runs, for instance, could strafe planets and remove 2 health of rebel units on a ground planet. Death Troopers could make all Stormtroopers have an extra health until the end of the round. That sort of thing.

A Rebel 'Destroy Data' mission that returns probe cards to the deck (though that might increase the length of play to undesirable lengths).

Or manipulate the imperial project deck by reordering the top two or three cards.

Well there are three ways the game could (physically) expand.

• miniatures
• board
• cards

Miniatures I already made a thread HERE on how the miniature selection could have expanded. Basically it adds different types of models and different values using the same resource symbols that are already on the board. Some units may need a mission/project to acquire access to them while others have other restriction to them. There is also some mission/projects that can be used to enhance the current models to make sure they keep up with the newer units. anyways read the post.

With the release of the Movie Rouge one and the board set up with the center world Corescuant being at the bottom you can almost be sure that there is room for a board expansion. Now how will they balance it out as more worlds means more places for the Rebel Base to hide they would have to make it easier for the Imperials to either cycle through the probe deck or find the sector the base is in faster. But it is easily doable.

Cards is the simplest addition that can be given to Rebellion with new leaders and new mission/projects as well as new tactics (both space and land). If there is an expansion you can count on it having one of these. Maybe even adding an Imperial and Rebel Lando for the two sides to fight over (Sorry Han, they got here first).