Reinforce:

When a ship with a reinforce token is defending, the reinforce token adds one result to its defense roll, but only if that token is assigned to the targeted section.

This has only ever come up once, but my understanding is that you can Juke a reinforce token, since the evade result is added to the roll in the same way as c3p0 and not done at the usual "Modify Defense Dice" step. Is that accurate, or has anything changed to reverse that?

Thanks.

Reinforce:

When a ship with a reinforce token is defending, the reinforce token adds one result to its defense roll, but only if that token is assigned to the targeted section.

This has only ever come up once, but my understanding is that you can Juke a reinforce token, since the evade result is added to the roll in the same way as c3p0 and not done at the usual "Modify Defense Dice" step. Is that accurate, or has anything changed to reverse that?

Thanks.

I'm not aware of any reason that the reinforce token shouldn't be resolved during Defender Modifies Defense Dice, in which case it wouldn't be available to Juke. Can you cite a source for your understanding that it works like Threepio?

Reinforce:

When a ship with a reinforce token is defending, the reinforce token adds one result to its defense roll, but only if that token is assigned to the targeted section.

This has only ever come up once, but my understanding is that you can Juke a reinforce token, since the evade result is added to the roll in the same way as c3p0 and not done at the usual "Modify Defense Dice" step. Is that accurate, or has anything changed to reverse that?

Thanks.

I'm not aware of any reason that the reinforce token shouldn't be resolved during Defender Modifies Defense Dice, in which case it wouldn't be available to Juke. Can you cite a source for your understanding that it works like Threepio?

Found what I was remembering, an email from Frank Brooks (which isn't absolute, of course): https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/198985-juke-and-epic-ships/

Found what I was remembering, an email from Frank Brooks (which isn't absolute, of course): https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/198985-juke-and-epic-ships/

Yep. Sure enough that says that. In absence of other guidance, it appears to work the way you think it does.

I wonder if Frank would answer the same way if the question specifically asked about the timing. I'm'a submit a rules question.

Found what I was remembering, an email from Frank Brooks (which isn't absolute, of course): https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/198985-juke-and-epic-ships/

Yep. Sure enough that says that. In absence of other guidance, it appears to work the way you think it does.

I wonder if Frank would answer the same way if the question specifically asked about the timing. I'm'a submit a rules question.

Thanks.

I'm guessing this must be a special ruling for reinforce.

Advanced Targeting Computer is worded the same in that it tells you to add a critical result to your roll yet you can't modify it with Zuckuss which is the same timing window as Juke.

I'm guessing this must be a special ruling for reinforce.

Advanced Targeting Computer is worded the same in that it tells you to add a critical result to your roll yet you can't modify it with Zuckuss which is the same timing window as Juke.

Well of course you can't modify a crit result with Zuckuss.

Zuckuss affects defence dice.

Oops, got a little mixed up, Zuckuss and Juke are in the same timing window, do they either both do or don't effect reinforce which RAW they don't because adding a result happens after they trigger and resolve.

ATC is the only other entity that says add to your roll, but most players don't seem to see the distinction between "add to your roll" and "add an X result" which indeed there may actually be none

Yeah....i think frank goofed the timing window on that one.

The reason C3P0 is bad is because hes vulnerable to Juke since HE adds it before you mod my defense, but you cant juke an evade token because you already had your chance to juke something.

Yeah....i think frank goofed the timing window on that one.

The reason C3P0 is bad is because hes vulnerable to Juke since HE adds it before you mod my defense, but you cant juke an evade token because you already had your chance to juke something.

Interesting side note though, I can Crackshot your evade token away since that happens during the compare results step of the timing chart. I actually had this come up in a tournament where I only had one hit rolled but the guy blanked and used his token. I then said ok I will crack that evade (since it was Tomax I had no reason not to) and he tried to tell me that I couldn't crackshot a token so I had to inform him that actually using the token adds an evade result to his pool of rolled dice. He then called a TO over and asked him. It was ruled in my favor, he accepted it and took the damage without further argument thankfully.

You opponent always modifies your dice before you do, whether they be Attack or Agility.

I'm guessing this must be a special ruling for reinforce.

Advanced Targeting Computer is worded the same in that it tells you to add a critical result to your roll yet you can't modify it with Zuckuss which is the same timing window as Juke.

It is true that Advanced Targeting Computer have the same wording... It may be a case of no one ever needing to confirm that... Is there a ruling about Elusiveness versus ATC ? Can the defender force a reroll of the Crit added ?!

I'm guessing this must be a special ruling for reinforce.

Advanced Targeting Computer is worded the same in that it tells you to add a critical result to your roll yet you can't modify it with Zuckuss which is the same timing window as Juke.

It is true that Advanced Targeting Computer have the same wording... It may be a case of no one ever needing to confirm that... Is there a ruling about Elusiveness versus ATC ? Can the defender force a reroll of the Crit added ?!

Since the defender modifies attack dice prior to the attacker modifying attack dice (per Step 3 in the timing chart) I am going to to with no, Elusiveness can't force a reroll of the crit from ATC. It technically doesn't exist yet even if people put the die with a crit result down before they even roll.

I'm guessing this must be a special ruling for reinforce.

Advanced Targeting Computer is worded the same in that it tells you to add a critical result to your roll yet you can't modify it with Zuckuss which is the same timing window as Juke.

It is true that Advanced Targeting Computer have the same wording... It may be a case of no one ever needing to confirm that... Is there a ruling about Elusiveness versus ATC ? Can the defender force a reroll of the Crit added ?!

Since the defender modifies attack dice prior to the attacker modifying attack dice (per Step 3 in the timing chart) I am going to to with no, Elusiveness can't force a reroll of the crit from ATC. It technically doesn't exist yet even if people put the die with a crit result down before they even roll.

Then what is the difference between ATC and Reinforce. They use the same wording. Why is one used before and the other after.

Reinforce: When a ship with a reinforce token is defending, the reinforce token adds one (EVADE) result to its defense roll , but only if that token is assigned to the targeted section.

ATC: When attacking with your primary weapon, if you have a target lock on the defender, you may add one (CRIT) result to your roll . If you do, you cannot spend target locks during this attack.

The two add one result to the roll... Why would one be done before modifying step and the other be done during modifying step. We also know that c-3po add to the roll, and do so before modification step.

Edit: I would say everything point to ATC being before like the other two, and no one had to care about it anyway so it never came up.

Edit2: DISCARD EVERYTHING I SAID, I WAS WRONG !

Basically, the best guess is that Reinforce is the aberration, and probably shouldn't be ruled the way it currently is. By RAW, Reinforce should work the same way as most other modifications - during the relevant Modify Dice step. But Epic is often not that well curated compared to the base game...

Best way to get this clarified is to submit an official rules question.

Then C-3po use the same aberration... and it is now relevant with new imperial shuttle...

I went and looked at the thread with the email response from Frank in it and noticed that it was from January of this year and the timing chart didn't come out until June so it is possible that thoughts on what the exact timing was going to be changed in between the two dates. It would not be the first time this has happened (see Gonk) so I am going to agree with thespaceinvader and suggest an official rules question be submitted.

Then C-3po use the same aberration... and it is now relevant with new imperial shuttle...

C3PO does it specifically because the card says so.

Reinforce doesn't, and is worded the same way as a number of other abilities which DO resolve in the relevant Modify step.

We only think Reinforce works differently because of an email ruling, which have frequently been unreliable.

I just started to look at all other modification effect... and my bad, they are all worded: Add to your roll...

So ok, I'm the wrong and lost one here... Reinforce is the aberration...

Then C-3po use the same aberration... and it is now relevant with new imperial shuttle...

Just to be clear I am not trying to attack you but I did just realize something else with this post, and that is the upcoming new Upsilon Class Shuttle does not have Reinforce, it has Coordinate which would not have any interaction with 3PO even if he wasn't rebel only anyway.

I went and looked at the thread with the email response from Frank in it and noticed that it was from January of this year and the timing chart didn't come out until June so it is possible that thoughts on what the exact timing was going to be changed in between the two dates. It would not be the first time this has happened (see Gonk) so I am going to agree with thespaceinvader and suggest an official rules question be submitted.

Yes, this was before the timing chart, but the rule of attacker modifies greens -> defenders modifies greens was in place then, so even at the time this was an odd ruling.

Then C-3po use the same aberration... and it is now relevant with new imperial shuttle...

Just to be clear I am not trying to attack you but I did just realize something else with this post, and that is the upcoming new Upsilon Class Shuttle does not have Reinforce, it has Coordinate which would not have any interaction with 3PO even if he wasn't rebel only anyway.

Men, I'm so lost...

Edit: I'm normally good with rules... but in this thread I should just shut up...