Y-Wings have to be the most underrated rebel squad. 10 points for 6 hull, 3 speed, and 2 blue antisquad. So much good there.

Only problem with them is heavy, if they weren't I would use them so much more.

Yeah, but intel does that anyway to your other ships. Y-Wings are the Rebel mirror of TIE Bombers.

And if there was a squadron that tripled the Y-wing's threat range, you'd see them in every Rebel bomber list, as you do with TIE bombers.

As it is, you see Y-wings about as often as you see Rhymer-less TIE bombers.

Rhymer is powerful, but I think the Rhymer-ball archetype is so dominant it keeps us from thinking in other creative ways. Jonus is going to help with that considerably.

Y-Wings have to be the most underrated rebel squad. 10 points for 6 hull, 3 speed, and 2 blue antisquad. So much good there.

Only problem with them is heavy, if they weren't I would use them so much more.

Yeah, but intel does that anyway to your other ships. Y-Wings are the Rebel mirror of TIE Bombers.

And if there was a squadron that tripled the Y-wing's threat range, you'd see them in every Rebel bomber list, as you do with TIE bombers.

As it is, you see Y-wings about as often as you see Rhymer-less TIE bombers.

Rhymer is powerful, but I think the Rhymer-ball archetype is so dominant it keeps us from thinking in other creative ways. Jonus is going to help with that considerably.

I thought wave 3,4 would see a decrease in Rhymer balls, but nope. Now I see annoying squad commanded rhymer balls with EHB and BCC gonzo's following them around.

1. "Thou shall not rush thy TIE Fighters into battle near enemy ships where flakking them is an easy decision." And when is there a fight that is not near enemy ships?

2. "Thou shall not allow enemy squadrons to get in the first attack against thy TIE Fighters unless there is a good reason. Thou hast been provided with speed 4 to enable this." OK, I this is a good point if they attack first you will likely lose one TiE for each of there squadrons that attack, but is that not part of the issue that people have with the TiE's?

3. "Thou shall not engage more enemies than necessary with any given TIE Fighter. Some casualties are to be expected, but wastefully leaving several TIEs in range to get counter-punched is pointless. Ideally thy TIEs shall eliminate all hostiles within engagement range, leaving none available for counter-attack unless thy foe also uses squadron commands or Rogues." As I understand it if, you are using TiE's "correctly" you should outnumber the Rebels, also would this not be linked with #4? And if (I see it as a BIG if) it works this should be a non-issue.

4. "Thou shall concentrate fire on enemy squadrons to eliminate them before they can fight back. Thou hast been provided with the Swarm keyword and Howlrunner to accomplish this goal." Like #3 if it works the way it is written, but I have never seen it work that way. I have seen TiE's fighting three, four, even sometimes five to one against X-wing's and A-Wing's and losing every time. Now, yes it does have some to do with dice rolls but at least in my experience and what I have seen it happens every time so that implies there is more to it than just bad dice rolls.

5. "Thou shall use Squadron commands on TIE Fighters to activate several of them in one ship activation and to get the first punch in on enemy squadrons. Thou hast been provided with several ships capable of giving this command, particularly the Gozanti Cruisers."OK, this again is a good point. Everyone I know does this to some amount, not sure if you are saying that it should be 100% or not. I have tried it where I can control 100% of my squadrons, down to about 40% at one time. I have not noticed it making any difference ether way.

6. "Thou shall disengage if possible with wounded TIEs to keep them from getting easily mopped up. Those TIEs can be either hidden from thy foes or used once again next turn to eliminate their foes." How often do you see TiE's survive? Almost every time I see them get one shot by just about everything, and when not one shot I seen one of two things happening first they are shot a second time and die, or two they are still engaged with a squadron that is much tougher than they are.

7. "Thou shall make use of obstruction to limit the damage done to TIEs, particularly by flak." This is something that I have never thought about, so I have no idea how this will/would affect the survival. So this is something that I need to look at trying.

8. "Thou shall leave TIEs within range of thy ships for flak assistance. Thou hast been provided with the Raider for great flak support." This is one more that is easier said than done. With only three hull, the Rebels can sit at long (OK, medium) and use the anti-squadron attacks to kill off the TiE's. Most of the Rebel ships that I see hit the table have two blue anti-squadron dice. The other issue with trying to take out fighters at long range is that just about every Rebel player in my area uses Gallent Haven that makes there higher hull squadrons last much longer than the wimpy TiE's.

9. "Thou shall not use TIEs to chase after enemy ships unless there is nothing better for them to do and it accomplishes something meaningful. TIEs are awful against ships." This is so true, fortunately not something that happens often either they die fighting the other squadrons or the Rebels did not bring any squadrons so might as well use them.

10. "Thou shall deploy TIEs to delay deploying thy real ships for as long as possible." A good idea to help the overall battle, but how does this help the TiE's?

1. There are frequently fights not near enemy ships. Often the enemy wants his bombers near your ships for obvious reasons, so make him come to you if you're not using a bomber group of your own. The main point is to not make flakking your TIEs an easy decision. Most people won't flak TIEs when they need that arc to attack back against an Imperial ship.
2. This puff and nonsense about TIEs dying at a rate of 1 to each squadron just needs to stop. Against a juiced-up ace (Wedge), maybe. A generic X-Wing or YT-2400 does on average 2 damage to a TIE. You'll need on average 2 such attacks to drop TIEs. Bombers and such can sometimes require 3+ attacks to drop TIEs.
3. It's not about outnumbering (although that helps), it's about making actual attacks on your TIEs not happen to the best of your ability. You often need to engage 2ish enemies with your initial TIE to set up the Swarm for subsequent TIEs. I see people engaging 3-4 enemies with a TIE Fighter squadron frequently and that squadron just dies because you can't reliably kill 3-4 squadrons unless you've got a ton of TIEs. If you do have a ton of TIEs, then you still shouldn't over-engage. Only engage as much as you need to in little bite-sized chunks and proceed from one current situation to the next.
4. Your experience is absolutely not normal and you're likely remembering bad dice rolls over average dice rolls. A TIE Fighter proccing Swarm will do just shy of 2 damage on average rolls (nearly as good as an X-Wing which is more than 50% more expensive). It usually takes 2-3 TIE squadrons to take down most fresh enemy squadrons (aces obviously can take a bit more of a beating). That's quite sufficient here.
5. You don't need to be able to command 100% of your TIEs, but at least 2/3 would be my recommendation. 100% is preferable if you want to depend on them. Being able to activate them in the squadron phase makes them substantially better but you need to use them well. You can have your TIEs wait to activate in the squadron phase if you're confident in winning the squadron mini-game as it currently stands and/or in the initial turns where you're being cagey and setting up an attack, but getting in the first punches each turn removes enemy squadrons from the board before they can attack which means less attacks back at TIE Fighters which means more TIE Fighters surviving into subsequent turns to continue punching first.
6. Again, TIEs usually require two attacks to kill. Sometimes the second attack doesn't happen or your opponent's dice are cold or whatever. Sometimes they're wounded by flak. It's important to realize that once your TIEs are down to 2 or 1 HP, they're much easier to kill. When that happens, you need to be cagier with them than usual and get them out of trouble to be reused again (preferably hop them to the station to heal if you can, it's the best way to do this). If they're engaged by another squadron, you can usually use other TIEs and/or flak to destroy the engager to free up the wounded TIE. If you get the engager down to 1 HP, then the wounded TIE itself is often quite reliable to use a squadron command on to attack, destroy the engager, and then hop away from trouble at speed 4.
7. Obstruction is absolutely critical. You take one less dice against you on the attack and you're not engaged, so you can use speed 4 to hop to someplace more productive to attack. Opponents often set up terrain near your side of the board and in the middle to inconvenience your ships, but those areas are great for TIEs to hide in.
8. I'm going to repeat that if the other guy has bombers then you have absolutely no incentive to bring your squadrons to him. He has every incentive to bring his squadrons to you. Your TIEs should not be engaging enemy squadrons near their ships in circumstances where flakking is the easy choice. You especially should not be running into squadrons sitting at range 1 of Gallant Haven to obligingly die. Why are you doing that? If your opponent is content to let his squadrons sit in the bunker doing nothing, let them sit there. Either Gallant Haven needs to follow its bombers into point blank range (and get destroyed by your ships) or the bombers need to leave its protection.
9. Yep.
10. It helps your fleet deploy well. Anything that helps your fleet helps your TIEs because they need to be used alongside your ships to be effective. Two TIEs are 16 points for a single deployment and their speed 4 allows them to redeploy pretty trivially. They are the game's best deployment time-waster.

If you don't like TIEs, there's always Aggressors. I don't much care for them as 2 TIEs are a lot more aggro for the same cost. If you're using a bomber blob as well then the TIE usage changes. You'll be triggering swarm more (due to all the bombers around) but less able to rely on friendly flak. Bombers make for great bullet sponges to take the initial attack from enemies as well.

Lets see now, Every capital ship in the star wars story line is a fighter carrier to some degree.
There has to be a good reason for them to make space on board a fighting ship for them
or they would use the space for some other weapon system if the fighters were not meant to be the best
weapon available. Fighters are a very big part of a star wars space battle.

there was only one space combat game I have ever played in the last 40 years with no fighters, but it had stands and stands of missiles that might as well have been called fighters only they attacked and left the table.

Y-Wings have to be the most underrated rebel squad. 10 points for 6 hull, 3 speed, and 2 blue antisquad. So much good there.

Only problem with them is heavy, if they weren't I would use them so much more.

Yeah, but intel does that anyway to your other ships. Y-Wings are the Rebel mirror of TIE Bombers.

And if there was a squadron that tripled the Y-wing's threat range, you'd see them in every Rebel bomber list, as you do with TIE bombers.

As it is, you see Y-wings about as often as you see Rhymer-less TIE bombers.

I am not seeing the Y-wings 99.9% of the games.

In my local area at least Rhymer and Demolisher almost never see the table. Y-wings see the table much more than either of them.

Y-Wings have to be the most underrated rebel squad. 10 points for 6 hull, 3 speed, and 2 blue antisquad. So much good there.

Only problem with them is heavy, if they weren't I would use them so much more.

Yeah, but intel does that anyway to your other ships. Y-Wings are the Rebel mirror of TIE Bombers.

And if there was a squadron that tripled the Y-wing's threat range, you'd see them in every Rebel bomber list, as you do with TIE bombers.

As it is, you see Y-wings about as often as you see Rhymer-less TIE bombers.

Rhymer is powerful, but I think the Rhymer-ball archetype is so dominant it keeps us from thinking in other creative ways. Jonus is going to help with that considerably.

The Rhymer ball is the Archtype for the "Assault" squadron build where most of your damage is in your squadrons. There are other squadron configurations such as screen which is more of an anti-rhymer but the thing is that Rhymer does pretty much set the standard.

The only other "Assault" squadron builds that I think that can come close is the Jan/X-wing combo, but that is more like an Assault squadron to punch through a screen. As far as Jonus it is a strange type of squadron more as a ship support squadron since he benefits ships not squadrons.

The only other "Assault" squadron builds that I think that can come close is the Jan/X-wing combo, but that is more like an Assault squadron to punch through a screen. As far as Jonus it is a strange type of squadron more as a ship support squadron since he benefits ships not squadrons.

Add Yavaris and B-Wings and you have the Rebel variant. Double tapping B-Wings are not to be underestimated.

As for the squadron game... I call it the "Game Within the Game" (it's kinda of a puzzle to me). I suck at Vassal so maybe Biggs or Mags can make Vassal brain teasers for peeps to solve?

I bring quarters... more importantly, just talk to your opponent what you intend to do (e.g., I'm gonna move this squadron to engage these things,you agree?... or I'm gonna keep these guys out of close range, etc, you agree?). This way you don't have arguments over placement when things go back to their positions. And if someone disagrees after we had previously agreed on something... really, in your leisure time you choose to cheat, be angry instead of having fun playing?

THIS ^^^. We all know that when I positioned the fighter it was "just outside of" your range 1, but just close enough to "intel" your other wing. Now you measure it and it is just inside so you can shoot it... we both know it shouldn't be there. It's no big deal, we just go with the intent. If your opponent is being a d!#k, then just stop playing against them.

Thou shall throw Tie Advanced into the brawl after the Tie Fighters have taken the first hit.

The Vector flotilla title is nice for TIE fighters and Advanced, even if it can't run flight controllers. Keep a TIE advanced + 1-2 TIE/ln or 2-3 TIE/lns in reserve, and they can strike any bomber that is hitting your fleet at speed 5.

Thou shall throw Tie Advanced into the brawl after the Tie Fighters have taken the first hit.

The Vector flotilla title is nice for TIE fighters and Advanced, even if it can't run flight controllers. Keep a TIE advanced + 1-2 TIE/ln or 2-3 TIE/lns in reserve, and they can strike any bomber that is hitting your fleet at speed 5.

Y-Wings have to be the most underrated rebel squad. 10 points for 6 hull, 3 speed, and 2 blue antisquad. So much good there.

Only problem with them is heavy, if they weren't I would use them so much more.

Yeah, but intel does that anyway to your other ships. Y-Wings are the Rebel mirror of TIE Bombers.

And if there was a squadron that tripled the Y-wing's threat range, you'd see them in every Rebel bomber list, as you do with TIE bombers.

As it is, you see Y-wings about as often as you see Rhymer-less TIE bombers.

I am not seeing the Y-wings 99.9% of the games.

In my local area at least Rhymer and Demolisher almost never see the table. Y-wings see the table much more than either of them.

Thou shall throw Tie Advanced into the brawl after the Tie Fighters have taken the first hit.

The Vector flotilla title is nice for TIE fighters and Advanced, even if it can't run flight controllers. Keep a TIE advanced + 1-2 TIE/ln or 2-3 TIE/lns in reserve, and they can strike any bomber that is hitting your fleet at speed 5.

Or to have speed 4 firesprays ;p

Can also do this with Corrupter, with the added advantage of FCT's (For Firesprays, I mean)

Thou shall throw Tie Advanced into the brawl after the Tie Fighters have taken the first hit.

The Vector flotilla title is nice for TIE fighters and Advanced, even if it can't run flight controllers. Keep a TIE advanced + 1-2 TIE/ln or 2-3 TIE/lns in reserve, and they can strike any bomber that is hitting your fleet at speed 5.

Or to have speed 4 firesprays ;p

Can also do this with Corrupter, with the added advantage of FCT's (For Firesprays, I mean)

Except VSDs don't have a support crew slot for Fighter Coordination Teams...

Thou shall throw Tie Advanced into the brawl after the Tie Fighters have taken the first hit.

The Vector flotilla title is nice for TIE fighters and Advanced, even if it can't run flight controllers. Keep a TIE advanced + 1-2 TIE/ln or 2-3 TIE/lns in reserve, and they can strike any bomber that is hitting your fleet at speed 5.

Or to have speed 4 firesprays ;p

Can also do this with Corrupter, with the added advantage of FCT's (For Firesprays, I mean)

Except VSDs don't have a support crew slot for Fighter Coordination Teams...

I meant Flight Controllers, not FCTs. Flight Controllers are so important to the Imperial Air Superiority strategy

Flight Controllers are so important to the Imperial Air Superiority strategy

What is this "Air Superiority" strategy of which you speak? I just try to get the bombers through, ignoring what little squadrons my opponent brings with my Jumpmasters and squadron commands.

I guess my local meta is different than your local meta.

Yeah I can't say I find Flight Controllers to be essential, either. Regular ol' TIEs, flak, and occasionally TIE aces (Howlrunner, Mauler) are usually sufficient. Flight Controllers are nice but it's tough finding a ship that wants them that doesn't want Gunnery Teams or Ordnance Experts more. VSD-Is make the best argument for them but I still don't find them essential there.

Yeah I can't say I find Flight Controllers to be essential, either. Regular ol' TIEs, flak, and occasionally TIE aces (Howlrunner, Mauler) are usually sufficient. Flight Controllers are nice but it's tough finding a ship that wants them that doesn't want Gunnery Teams or Ordnance Experts more. VSD-Is make the best argument for them but I still don't find them essential there.

I frequently fly a dedicated ISD-I carrier with Motti, Wing Commander, Expanded Hangars, Flight Controllers, and Boosted Comms. Because of the lack of much in the way of Space-superiority squadrons on the other side, I don't feel I get a lot of mileage out of the Flight Controllers.

Mikael I will say that once Jerrjerrod is released, I'll be giving another shot to an ISD-I with a similar setup. I tried it before but it felt like I was giving up too much for the sake of commanding squadrons. When a 130ish point ship is disadvantaged in its main goal of bringing that sweet front arc to bear all in service to 48 points of TIEs it felt a bit backwards to me. Jerjerrod doesn't make the choice as hard - you can navigate well while also commanding squadrons.

::sobbing quietly::

I'm very new to the game so...

I find the rebel squadron design tack in this game to be a bit iffy but perhaps the new keywords will help them with more generic support for them. The rhymer ball is so efficient compared to the rebel options..

I also think that clicking the fighter bases when they have to get pretty close together is a pain in the ass and i'm not sure how I would do it better though.

Rhymerballs arent any more efficient. Like all things dark side it's just easier. Yavaris is the Rebel equivalent. Where Rhymer gives you persistence, Yavaris gives you burst. It is easy to line up? No. Does it do a hell of a lot more damage than a Rhymerball when you do it right? Absolutely.

Now in the fighter fight, the Imperials have long had the upper hand, with Yavaris being just about the only way to remotely keep up with Howl and Flight Controllers and Mauler and Fel and...sorry my PTSD is kicking in from all the blue dice and auto damage. Give me a second. OK, where was I? Ah yes. Ass loads of Imperial damage. The main problem for Rebels has always been weathering that initial storm. They have the speed to almost always alpha strike, so even if you have Yavaris, you have to live long enough to attack bad. Rieekan has always helped this to a degree.

I feel like making the observation that, for all the fighter-killing advantages of the Wave 1 Imperial squadrons, all of it fell by the wayside for two reasons: 3-hull fragility on your primary fighters, and the fact that they can't hurt capital ships as well as nearly every Rebel fighter can.

It's why we've seen Rhymerballs ascend over TIE Swarms after wave 2 shook out and better Imperial fighters became available. Why take Howlrunner when Aggressors and Firesprays don't have swarm? There is literally no reason to start buying up generic TIE Fighters and interceptors to take to the fight because once you've killed any amount of enemy fighters, they become inefficient means to attack capital ships and become easy points for the enemy to casually swat aside with their blue dice (I know, because I was in that very tournament with that TIE Swarm list a few months back and realized how much it wasn't going to work against capital ships).

If you do take TIE Fighters and TIE Interceptors right now, I feel that they're going to be a part of an ace fighter ball. Mithel will be favored over Howlrunner because not many aces have Swarm, and Fel is still going to have some use as long as Vader or a couple of lone generics (Or Black Squadron!) are in place.

I own about one of everything so far except that I have two Imperial and two Rebel fighter expansions.

Fighters seem like and important feel for the game but, as I'm hearing, can suck up time and turn the game away from a capital ship game.

I know the squadron points are limited based on your total but if you could what would be the limit to the number squadrons. I play a friendly casual game to having a simple house rule is easy. I would like to keep it a capital ship game with fighters buzzing about not the other way around.

Would it help if I simply didn't use the Rouge pack, of which I only have one anyway.

::sobbing quietly::

There there, it'll be okay.

Mikael I will say that once Jerrjerrod is released, I'll be giving another shot to an ISD-I with a similar setup. I tried it before but it felt like I was giving up too much for the sake of commanding squadrons. When a 130ish point ship is disadvantaged in its main goal of bringing that sweet front arc to bear all in service to 48 points of TIEs it felt a bit backwards to me. Jerjerrod doesn't make the choice as hard - you can navigate well while also commanding squadrons.

Yeah, I certainly understand that an ISD is a heavy price to pay, given that I pay it. Unlike the VSD it can go speed 3 to keep itself out of the fight, and threaten to circle around and pick off an opposing fleet's stragglers with that front arc, while still commanding the squadrons in the center.

::sobbing quietly::

Give in to your despair. With each passing sob you make yourself more my servant.

I'm just hoping, come Wave 5, there's something in there that works for me. Something that completely mitigates my completely horrendous die rolling ability...

I'm here, all the time. I read the strategies, I apply the strategies, I maneuver, I outmaneuver, I'm just the right amount of aggressive...

and I lose.

So here's hoping. Wave 5... Someething that suits me, and turns my luck around.

Because I've gone so far as to paint my Imperial Capital Ships this Week, now....

I'm just hoping, come Wave 5, there's something in there that works for me. Something that completely mitigates my completely horrendous die rolling ability...

I'm here, all the time. I read the strategies, I apply the strategies, I maneuver, I outmaneuver, I'm just the right amount of aggressive...

and I lose.

So here's hoping. Wave 5... Someething that suits me, and turns my luck around.

Because I've gone so far as to paint my Imperial Capital Ships this Week, now....

Release your anger at the red dice. Give in to your hate, and put them in the microwave in order to punish them.

Then embrace the Dark Side and start playing for the Empire. Take up the Dark black dice and see how they serve you much better as you obliterate your enemies.

I'm just hoping, come Wave 5, there's something in there that works for me. Something that completely mitigates my completely horrendous die rolling ability...

I'm here, all the time. I read the strategies, I apply the strategies, I maneuver, I outmaneuver, I'm just the right amount of aggressive...

and I lose.

So here's hoping. Wave 5... Someething that suits me, and turns my luck around.

Because I've gone so far as to paint my Imperial Capital Ships this Week, now....

Dras, have you heard of these wonderful things called TRCs? It doesn't matter how you roll, you have guaranteed results.