With all the new squadrons and squadrons cards, Armada is beginning to be much more difficult to play.

When the game came out it was the big ships that dominated the sky and squadrons was like small irritating mosquitos.

Like the second Wold War the squadrons that came with the carriers that time ended the domination of big capital ships.

The same I feel have happen to Armada.
Now I feel that the battle is won not by tactical play of your capital ship, but how good you choose your squadrons and how well you play them.
Well it is more realistic if you think about it. But at the same time it require a better Admiral with good tactics to lead the combined strike of squadrons and ships.

Anyone feel the same way ?

Are Armada ready for some capital ships that are squadron killers. Like the Lancer frigate ?

Someone still feel it is the capital ships that rule the sky ?

Let get this discussion started while we wait for more news about the upcoming squadrons and ships.

The advent of sniper will help. It makes it easier to kill off Jan and Dengar so bringing the squadron battle a little more like or was in wave one games. The good old days where you could pin a Rhymer ball for a crucial turn.

NO - at least not all of the time

Some of the time - some situations and some fleet match ups, when games start an even number of seconds after midnight, yes, other times no

My friend always slow rolls some carrier Vics and about 134 pts of Deng/Howl/rhymerball straight at me. I hate it.

Your hopes won't come until after wave 5 with Sato and the new squads. I do find it ironic that 1/3 of your fleet is dictating how effective it will be. I think when we get commanders not tailored toward squad play, or even against it, will big ships come back. Perhaps FFG is purposefully changing the meta to make certain builds better or possible. Wave 2 was all big ships, and wave 3/4 brought squads to light. I have faith FFG will keep the game balanced.

I think both squadrons and ships have a role. I have seen MSU lists work, I have seen bomber lists work. In the end of the day the way to win is to utilize what you have to full effect.

You said it yourself this game requires a better admiral with good tactics to lead the combined strike of squadrons and ships. So therefore a good competitive list requires a good balance of things. To me that is the epitome of a good balance strategy game when nearly everything is viable.

Raiders have a weird rep on the forums

Evidently, not many have seen them scythe through entire squadron compliments

Raiders have a weird rep on the forums

Evidently, not many have seen them scythe through entire squadron compliments

I tend to target small ships first with ships and squads. Ain't no way I'd let a Raider live.

Oddly enough I'm leaning more ship heavy these days after being a proponent of squads for so long. Imperials continue to have some of the best anti-squadron mixes out there. They can bring around 50 points of the right mix and stop a much larger squadron force in its tracks. I think my preferred set up going forward will be Saber, Howl, Valen, and Ciena.

One thing I like about Armada. The "meta" isn't anywhere near as unbeatable as in other games. You can take no squadrons and still be competitive. You just need a counter for squadrons, (ie raiders). Of course, that said, I don't think I would currently field a list with no squadrons. Then again, squads and BIG ships is SO thematic, I HAVE to play that way

I've felt for some time you don't see some answers that are already in the game due to cost. Why would you want 8 plus R&V packs to get some builds? You might want them, but people aren't spending that money.

But starting shortly, Maybe you won't see 8 YT2400's, but something like 2x YT2400's, Hera's Ghost, 2 normal Xwings, Rogue Squadron, and Han isn't a bad look, and roughly as efficient for a little less cost.

Once that starts to happen, I think you will see some of the "fighter storm" slow down.

Y'all need some MC30's.

I do think FFG has gone a bit far in pushing the power level of fighters to the point it is a bit unbalanced that way. However, if you've been around a while you remember the days of the Gencon Special when fighters weren't really used/needed at ALL. This is just the other end of the swinging pendulum. It will swing back. Would I prefer that the power levels of ships a squadrons remained balanced? Yes. Do I think the game is unplayable when they aren't? Of course not. 'Overall' this is one of the most balanced miniature games I've ever played. Squadrons are just a bit on the powerful side at the moment.

Y'all need some MC30's.

Quiet down ya nut. We don't need your "look at me and my crazy 4 MC30, no squadron list" shenanigans in here.

I truly get the giggles at everyone who used to run all-ships, now that they feel they are "forced" to use Squadrons...

...

Squadrons were always intended to be good.

They wouldn't have limited them to 1/3rd if they weren't going to be.

Squadron lite fleets are still viable if planned accordingly. Personally I prefer capital ship play more than squads so I'm reluctantly looking at more squadron centric lists.

Bottom line is you play as many squads that make it so your fleet can do what you want it to do. The issue with squadrons is finding that right balance that you can defeat or delay someone who brought more anti squadron than you. Finding the right balance with squads of having a strong enough anti squad capability vs also still having enough anti ship capability. Go too heavy anti squad with your 134 points and you may shred a dedicated bomber wing but be severely behind someone who barely did any squads. Go too heavy antiship and you get shredded by someone going heavy anti squad. It's a fine balance and the meta will be shifting a lot back and forth.

It's all how you play. I've run squad heavy fleets that sweep through the opponents ships, I've also built ship heavy fleets that sweep through enemy squads. I'm happy to see squads finally being effective in the game(they weren't that great in wave 1 & 2), as it opens up more ways to build effective fleets. Might just be time to try a new strategy if your struggling against squads.

I'm not sure exactly what the OP is asking, but I just want to add this:

The tagline on the box says: "The game of tactical fleet battles"

It doesn't say: "The game of capital ship combat"

Nowhere does the marketing of the game itself, nor really the rules, demand or suggest that squadrons are an afterthought. Somewhere, an idea was introduced in the forums that big capital ships are the focus of the game, and anything else is secondary. That's simply not the case.

Oddly enough I'm leaning more ship heavy these days after being a proponent of squads for so long. Imperials continue to have some of the best anti-squadron mixes out there. They can bring around 50 points of the right mix and stop a much larger squadron force in its tracks. I think my preferred set up going forward will be Saber, Howl, Valen, and Ciena.

Yeah, I've been playing a bit with Rebel squads and...I'm unconvinced. Like, it's still new to me and I enjoy it and it can be effective so I'll keep doing it for a while, but I have a serious of envy whenever Mauler plops down in the middle of my squads and takes out like 10% of my entire squadron force's hp just by moving once. And I can't spread out too much to deal with it because my fighters are actually kind of slow and if I take too defensive a formation the speed 3 slugs I'm pushing around won't be able to group up enough. Nevermind B-Wings where, yeah, they pack a punch and they're awesome but good lord.

But yeah, on the other side of the board there's tons of auto damage and also speed 4 bombers that are chucking dice at medium range and...man. Man.

My only real complaint with squadrons is they slide around too much to use the damage dial or activation toggle without altering the game state.

I disagree that the squadron selection is where the squadron fight is won/lost- timing of activation, using obstacles, and positioning are just as IF NOT MORE important.

I do, however, think that there are a significant number of players who just dogpile all their fighters in the middle of the table, roll a bunch of dice, pray a lot of prayers, and then grumble about the lack of tactics. Resist that urge! The fighter game, though not restricted by maneuver as much, is still very much an economy of mass problem/initiative problem at its heart: don't dump your fighters just to "gain a deployment," rather think about where you want your fighters and when. If you "get there firstest with the mostest" (wrongly attributed, I know!) then it doesn't matter if you're fighting at an overall numerical disadvantage as much if you have local advantage and you shoot first at what should be shot first while your opponent cannot. Engage your opponent with local superiority as much as possible- (i.e. if I've got 4 x-wings vs dengarrhymervadersoontirmauler, when I activate my squads, I'm going to make sure they're all just in range of one dude, and I'm going to make that guy hurts).

If you're facing the Imperial auto-damage ball, for example, hold your fighters in reserve- put your dudes somewhere else! Don't let them hit you on their terms: make them eat hot, steaming, stinky AA fire from your otherwise-not-very-threatened ships first, or throw them a token a-wing or two to alter the pace of the battle.

In short, there's a LOT you can do even without wave 5 just from pushing your plastic around a little differently.

Oddly enough I'm leaning more ship heavy these days after being a proponent of squads for so long. Imperials continue to have some of the best anti-squadron mixes out there. They can bring around 50 points of the right mix and stop a much larger squadron force in its tracks. I think my preferred set up going forward will be Saber, Howl, Valen, and Ciena.

Yeah, I've been playing a bit with Rebel squads and...I'm unconvinced. Like, it's still new to me and I enjoy it and it can be effective so I'll keep doing it for a while, but I have a serious of envy whenever Mauler plops down in the middle of my squads and takes out like 10% of my entire squadron force's hp just by moving once. And I can't spread out too much to deal with it because my fighters are actually kind of slow and if I take too defensive a formation the speed 3 slugs I'm pushing around won't be able to group up enough. Nevermind B-Wings where, yeah, they pack a punch and they're awesome but good lord.

But yeah, on the other side of the board there's tons of auto damage and also speed 4 bombers that are chucking dice at medium range and...man. Man.

That not to say I can't go light on squadrons with Rebels. You just have to do it a different way. The best commander for it is Mon Mothma. She's a direct counter to the Rhymerball, and a soft counter to BCC boosted squadrons (re-roll your re-roll MFer!). You can't expect to go toe to toe with Imperial squads for the most part, though. Go have a look at how Ard is handling it: 4 MC30 and 4 GR-75s (last I read over in the fleet forum). The transports are surprisingly good AA platforms for their cost. Personally, I'd consider packing a few transports and add the Rebellion's two most frustrating squadrons (Tycho and Shara Bey) and call it a day. Bring some Slicer Tools it you wanna be a real ****.

Oddly enough I'm leaning more ship heavy these days after being a proponent of squads for so long. Imperials continue to have some of the best anti-squadron mixes out there. They can bring around 50 points of the right mix and stop a much larger squadron force in its tracks. I think my preferred set up going forward will be Saber, Howl, Valen, and Ciena.

Yeah, I've been playing a bit with Rebel squads and...I'm unconvinced. Like, it's still new to me and I enjoy it and it can be effective so I'll keep doing it for a while, but I have a serious of envy whenever Mauler plops down in the middle of my squads and takes out like 10% of my entire squadron force's hp just by moving once. And I can't spread out too much to deal with it because my fighters are actually kind of slow and if I take too defensive a formation the speed 3 slugs I'm pushing around won't be able to group up enough. Nevermind B-Wings where, yeah, they pack a punch and they're awesome but good lord.

But yeah, on the other side of the board there's tons of auto damage and also speed 4 bombers that are chucking dice at medium range and...man. Man.

That not to say I can't go light on squadrons with Rebels. You just have to do it a different way. The best commander for it is Mon Mothma. She's a direct counter to the Rhymerball, and a soft counter to BCC boosted squadrons (re-roll your re-roll MFer!). You can't expect to go toe to toe with Imperial squads for the most part, though. Go have a look at how Are is handling it: 4 MC30 and 4 GR-75s (last I read over in the fleet forum). The transports are surprisingly good AA platforms for their cost. Personally, I'd consider packing a few transports and add the Rebellion's two most frustrating squadrons (Tycho and Shara Bey) and call it a day. Bring some Slicer Tools it you wanna be a real ****.

I've been using elements of this with good effect. Mon Mothma, Slicer Tools, Tycho, Flotilla black die AA fire. Also Comms Nets giving Eng tokens to your combat ships so they can raise a shield each round I've found to be very valuable. Looking forward to Shara Bey.

I'll save my opinions until CC and the new fighter packs come out, but suffice to say...things are gonna get crazy.

Honestly, once Ard posted his thoughts and I made my own variant and tried it out, I think that's for sure the rebel way to go if you do no squadrons.

And I will wait till Pelta show up. One of the cards do something with sliders on squadrons. Youjust need some black dice (ordynance upgreade - Raider said Mniammm)