I think JM5ks are being slept on pretty hard here. Any list with Manaroo and good wing mates I believe is easily tier 1 and her ability is on par with Palpatine. I would even say Dengaroo is S tier.

Also, are Scouts dead dead? I think that may be a bit drastic. If someone has been practicing for months with Scouts, I think their first choice would be to modify their current list, not abandon it fully. Yes, Deadeye may be gone, but there are still options they have available, such as Mindlink and Crack Shot, and crew options like K4 Security droid to make up for the lack of Deadeye. Now yes, triple Uboats may be gone, but 2 Uboats + a bumpmaster, all with Mindlink seems like it could work, as well as 2 fully stocked Uboats with a cheaper 3rd option. If anything, I would say it is tier 2 at least.

Kdubb tha god.

So can you expand on Manroo v Palpatine and why you think Manaroo might be just as good?

Palp is, when it comes down to it, still stuck on a shuttle that is nailed down to very few options outside of Sensor Jammer or jumping up to Yorr. Manaroo effectively has an equally efficient ability on a highly customizable chassis. She has numerous effective ways to be built, so even if you have practiced against a Manaroo list a hundred times, you still can't be certain you know how to approach her in every instance. Palp on the other hand is far more predictable. It is also worth noting that, while you will want to stack more points on her, a naked Manaroo is 2 points cheaper than a Palp shuttle, so cost efficiency is very even.

The main thing Palp has over Roo is that its ability can never be taken away via a block, which is a pretty massive point. But I think, at least at a Worlds level, it is safe to assume that players flying Manaroo will have enough awareness to avoid those sort of mistakes outside of the tightest of games where they meet a player of equal or higher skill.

With all this in mind, I expect at least 2 of the top 8 lists at worlds to include Manaroo.

Also on another note, I think the "What would you change?" segment with your guest is one of the best segments you guys have had yet. Not too lengthy and really interesting insights.

I like that you guys brought up and discussed Jax/Defenders, because I think it's both good and very cool. I think you may have sort of bypassed a potential speedbump for it, though, the dual Ghost list. FCS Ghosts basically don't care much about Juke or Jax, and their giant primary weapon attacks and Autoblaster Turrets are just about the best things for punching down Defenders. The Gencon runner up list with 2 Lothals and a Y-wing with ABT, and variants thereof seem like a really strong list overall, and specifically immune to much of Jax/Defender's strengths.

I like that you guys brought up and discussed Jax/Defenders, because I think it's both good and very cool. I think you may have sort of bypassed a potential speedbump for it, though, the dual Ghost list. FCS Ghosts basically don't care much about Juke or Jax, and their giant primary weapon attacks and Autoblaster Turrets are just about the best things for punching down Defenders. The Gencon runner up list with 2 Lothals and a Y-wing with ABT, and variants thereof seem like a really strong list overall, and specifically immune to much of Jax/Defender's strengths.

We ranked double ghost Tier 1. You're absolutely right. It is very strong especially vs top lists.

I wasn't disputing your Double Ghost ranking, just wondering if that sort of potential weakness was a fly in Jac/Defender's S rating.

Those primaries will do serious work against the Defenders, even while K-turning because Hera crew exists, which basically makes a Ghost a giant Defender.

Pfft you're all wrong. Double bomber K-wings will win worlds

I think VI bots are going to make a comeback. BMST makes VI bots Tier 1 again IMO.

Pfft you're all wrong. Double bomber K-wings will win worlds

Few things would make me happier.

Alas, double-ghost is a rough matchup, so we'll see.

Pfft you're all wrong. Double bomber K-wings will win worlds

Few things would make me happier.

Alas, double-ghost is a rough matchup, so we'll see.

Eh, it's winnable. You just have to play carefully (a general rule when your squad is literally 2 K-wings), and let your TLTs erode them away. Fighting near a board edge is a good idea to prevent them from being able to turn towards it.

I've found with it's toolbox nature, double bomber K-wings has very few bad matchups. The hardest is probably a control-heavy list like Asajj-Shadowcaster or multiple TIE/Ds. Having said that, 1 stress-hog/arc or TIE/D is manageable. Whisper is always annoying as she decloaks before you can bomb her, shoots before Miranda regens, and hits hard enough to crack Miranda's defences. Whisper's still beatable though, one wrong move on her part and she's dead pretty quick.

Seriously though, I feel like Scum has so many stupidly undercosted big ships that they'll win worlds.

TLTs are also bane for Whisper; they will erode her just like everyone else who doesn't have spectacular defences and autothrusters. Green dice fail.

I think JM5ks are being slept on pretty hard here. Any list with Manaroo and good wing mates I believe is easily tier 1 and her ability is on par with Palpatine. I would even say Dengaroo is S tier.

Also, are Scouts dead dead? I think that may be a bit drastic. If someone has been practicing for months with Scouts, I think their first choice would be to modify their current list, not abandon it fully. Yes, Deadeye may be gone, but there are still options they have available, such as Mindlink and Crack Shot, and crew options like K4 Security droid to make up for the lack of Deadeye. Now yes, triple Uboats may be gone, but 2 Uboats + a bumpmaster, all with Mindlink seems like it could work, as well as 2 fully stocked Uboats with a cheaper 3rd option. If anything, I would say it is tier 2 at least.

Kdubb tha god.

So can you expand on Manroo v Palpatine and why you think Manaroo might be just as good?

Palp is, when it comes down to it, still stuck on a shuttle that is nailed down to very few options outside of Sensor Jammer or jumping up to Yorr. Manaroo effectively has an equally efficient ability on a highly customizable chassis. She has numerous effective ways to be built, so even if you have practiced against a Manaroo list a hundred times, you still can't be certain you know how to approach her in every instance. Palp on the other hand is far more predictable. It is also worth noting that, while you will want to stack more points on her, a naked Manaroo is 2 points cheaper than a Palp shuttle, so cost efficiency is very even.

The main thing Palp has over Roo is that its ability can never be taken away via a block, which is a pretty massive point. But I think, at least at a Worlds level, it is safe to assume that players flying Manaroo will have enough awareness to avoid those sort of mistakes outside of the tightest of games where they meet a player of equal or higher skill.

With all this in mind, I expect at least 2 of the top 8 lists at worlds to include Manaroo.

Also on another note, I think the "What would you change?" segment with your guest is one of the best segments you guys have had yet. Not too lengthy and really interesting insights.

We'll likely do something similar to the "What would you change?" again. I loved his fix for Biggs personally.

TLTs are also bane for Whisper; they will erode her just like everyone else who doesn't have spectacular defences and autothrusters. Green dice fail.

As Blair pointed out. Whisper is Mynock's favorite ace and even they aren't suggesting Whisper.

Personally I think reports of Whisper's demise are greatly exaggerated but TLT matchups WILL be a giant pain for them.

Oh she's absolutely not dead.

She's just less good than she was.

Defenders have suppressed a LOT of the traditional Imperial aces, I think, and will continue to do so as long as stress control is a reasonably strong probability. They're just that much more durable and forgiving.

Brobots should be tier 8 guys. Don't fly them. They're bad. These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along.

Is the audio weird for anyone else? Had it arrive on my podcast feed and almost everyone is only in the right ear, except the captain who is super quiet in left ear.

I also have issues with audio. I think I use podcast addict on my phone and really cannot make out anyone clearly especially Kelvan. Do I need to try a different app?

Edit: It is only this episode that is causing problems. Other casts come through fine.

Please bring back Rebel control. TIE/D's will be waiting...

I'm 3-0 on vassal with this:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/589193/mindlink-fenn-palob-manaroo#

Fenn + ML + AT + title

Palob + ML + TLT + Lattz + MC

Manaroo + ML + RecSpec + R4 agro + Plasma + GC

It's solid but I think it's probably more tier 1.5 than tier 1. Fenn is extremely high variance especially without an evade or Palp to back him up, so in a tournament where you can only afford 1 loss, its much more likely to lose one game vs a less skilled player than a list like Palp Aces.

I really like the bones of this list. A few questions:

1. Does Moldy Crow pay for itself in a MindLink list? You should be throwing focus all over the place with this list and Palob is missing out on any of those if he has leftovers due to Moldy Crow.

2. Does Rec Spec pay for itself? I would be tempted to run K4 to make the torpedoes a bit punchier and toss Fenn a TL when he boosts in to range one.

I will go out on a limb here, but this podcast was -informational-wise- a simply fantastic podcast!!!!

However, I do have a mild complaint: as I listened to it with my headphones, sound quality issues raised their heads. A note to your sound engineer: one gentlemen (the Captain I believe) was in left channel only and mainly low in output, whereas some speakers were normal volume in both channels (well done) but there was one smart and interesting fellow that nearly deafened me a few times in the right chanel. But, that is an easy fix really. Overall, Very Well done guys!

I don't know who will win worlds, but I'm hoping they have bombers in their squad, THAT would be fresh and fun, haha!

I will go out on a limb here, but this podcast was -informational-wise- a simply fantastic podcast!!!!

However, I do have a mild complaint: as I listened to it with my headphones, sound quality issues raised their heads. A note to your sound engineer: one gentlemen (the Captain I believe) was in left channel only and mainly low in output, whereas some speakers were normal volume in both channels (well done) but there was one smart and interesting fellow that nearly deafened me a few times in the right chanel. But, that is an easy fix really. Overall, Very Well done guys!

I don't know who will win worlds, but I'm hoping they have bombers in their squad, THAT would be fresh and fun, haha!

I want to address the audio. That's all on me. Alex (Antigrapist) was on vacation and I didn't want to wait to get the content out. While I mostly did a good job I did not pay enough attention to stereo vs mono. I'll be attempting to address that tonight.

TLDR: This podcast was edited by a drunken pirate lord.

I really like the bones of this list. A few questions:

1. Does Moldy Crow pay for itself in a MindLink list? You should be throwing focus all over the place with this list and Palob is missing out on any of those if he has leftovers due to Moldy Crow.

2. Does Rec Spec pay for itself? I would be tempted to run K4 to make the torpedoes a bit punchier and toss Fenn a TL when he boosts in to range one.

The list is designed around being toolboxy, but also as durable as possible with those three ships. All three ships make "good targets" so you need to be careful with each. In a tournament, durability = more time, and more time = greater chances of the better player winning. And hopefully you're the better player.

After turn 2, Palob has 7 focus tokens. And he absolutely needs to be able to modify his dice 100% of the time to contribute, especially to stay alive on defense. Having a bank of 7 initially lets him take TL as an action, or bump. Without Moldy Crow, 2 focus per round (assuming Palob gets an action and Manaroo passes focus to Fenn) would not be enough to reliably tank damage and also deal out anything in return with TLT.

I absolutely like Recon Specialist over K4, especially with Moldy Crow. Once you get into combat, Manaroo's default choices are to focus and pass both to Fenn, which gives Fenn 3 focus tokens plus an action. Fenn is rolling a lot of dice and needs all the focus he can get. and of course Manaroo gets one back in return when passing via Mindlink.

Plus, R4 is extremely good in this setup. Manaroo can grab a TL after focusing on attack and either use it right away, or save it for the next round, at which point its likely getting passed to Fenn. 5 dice TL+F is good times. She also has the ability to use R4 to set up a Plasma shot next round. She can bump 2 turns in a row and still get off a plasma torp with TL+F+GC on the 2nd turn.

And of course with Palob, you can do almost all of the above without getting any actions on any of your ships, if your opponent unwittingly takes focus as an action. Worst case, in such a scenario Fenn gets 2 focus tokens instead of 3. A smarter opponent will just not focus at all, but then they have no modifiers for their defense.

Fenn Rau (28)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Autothrusters (2)

Concord Dawn Protector (1)

Palob Godalhi (20)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Latts Razzi (2)

Manaroo (27)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Plasma Torpedoes (3)

K4 Security Droid (3)

Unhinged Astromech (1)

Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 96

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

What to do with the last four points? Engine Upgrade on Palob seems stupid but if he can dodge a shot or two or get into range a steal a token it might be stupid like a fox. Maybe Vectored Thrusters and then Extra Munitions on Manaroo.

Engine Upgrade on Palob could be a good idea, but at PS5 he's almost always moving last anyway.

Vampiroo/ Fangiroo are names that shall claim a seat in 'Manda' forever. Let no one forget them for they shall inspire fear in our enemies.

Vampiroo/ Fangiroo are names that shall claim a seat in 'Manda' forever. Let no one forget them for they shall inspire fear in our enemies.

@MajorJuggler:

I had not considered the synergy with Rec Spec and the Moldy Crow. Being able to mod the crap out of your TLT shots for a good while is nice. R4 is probably enough of a TL source. I see the whole picture much better. Very well designed.

I'm still tempted to get some maneuverability on Palob though. Moving first isn't a huge issue if you can block or just put yourself in a better position to steal tokens. Vectored Thrusters and BMST instead of Moldy Crow maybe.

I really like the bones of this list. A few questions:

1. Does Moldy Crow pay for itself in a MindLink list? You should be throwing focus all over the place with this list and Palob is missing out on any of those if he has leftovers due to Moldy Crow.

2. Does Rec Spec pay for itself? I would be tempted to run K4 to make the torpedoes a bit punchier and toss Fenn a TL when he boosts in to range one.

The list is designed around being toolboxy, but also as durable as possible with those three ships. All three ships make "good targets" so you need to be careful with each. In a tournament, durability = more time, and more time = greater chances of the better player winning. And hopefully you're the better player.

After turn 2, Palob has 7 focus tokens. And he absolutely needs to be able to modify his dice 100% of the time to contribute, especially to stay alive on defense. Having a bank of 7 initially lets him take TL as an action, or bump. Without Moldy Crow, 2 focus per round (assuming Palob gets an action and Manaroo passes focus to Fenn) would not be enough to reliably tank damage and also deal out anything in return with TLT.

I absolutely like Recon Specialist over K4, especially with Moldy Crow. Once you get into combat, Manaroo's default choices are to focus and pass both to Fenn, which gives Fenn 3 focus tokens plus an action. Fenn is rolling a lot of dice and needs all the focus he can get. and of course Manaroo gets one back in return when passing via Mindlink.

Plus, R4 is extremely good in this setup. Manaroo can grab a TL after focusing on attack and either use it right away, or save it for the next round, at which point its likely getting passed to Fenn. 5 dice TL+F is good times. She also has the ability to use R4 to set up a Plasma shot next round. She can bump 2 turns in a row and still get off a plasma torp with TL+F+GC on the 2nd turn.

And of course with Palob, you can do almost all of the above without getting any actions on any of your ships, if your opponent unwittingly takes focus as an action. Worst case, in such a scenario Fenn gets 2 focus tokens instead of 3. A smarter opponent will just not focus at all, but then they have no modifiers for their defense.

Fenn Rau (28)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Autothrusters (2)

Concord Dawn Protector (1)

Palob Godalhi (20)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Latts Razzi (2)

Manaroo (27)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Plasma Torpedoes (3)

K4 Security Droid (3)

Unhinged Astromech (1)

Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 96

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

What to do with the last four points? Engine Upgrade on Palob seems stupid but if he can dodge a shot or two or get into range a steal a token it might be stupid like a fox. Maybe Vectored Thrusters and then Extra Munitions on Manaroo.

Engine Upgrade on Palob could be a good idea, but at PS5 he's almost always moving last anyway.

Maaan Engine plus turret is always really good. Even on a small ship.

oooh god.... I'm getting the desire to play Horton again.

List Manaroo/Fenn/Palob had been tested in tournament environment by Jesper Hills and David Sutcliffe in UK, and by myself in Poland. It has ben proven to be fun to play, competitive but to squishy and lacking of punch to be in tier1 or even tier1,5.

However 2 very powerful Attanni lists had been developed:

Asajj Ventress + Attanni Mindlink, Latts Razzi

Fenn Rau + Attanni Mindlink, Title, Autothrusters

Manaroo + Attanni Mindlink

This is my discovery, so I called it Parattanni

David's variation:

Boba Fett + Attanni Mindlink

Fenn Rau + Attanni Mindlink, Title, Autothrusters

Manaroo + Attanni Mindlink

As for Parattanni, it is hard to find bad matchup for this list. Only stress lists can bring some troubles, but not more than for standard Aces lists.

I don't expect this lists to blossom during the Worlds, as they are freshly developed and not well known so I don't think any of competent players have been practicing it, but be ready for Regionals. If it become popular, I feel it jump into Tier1 for at least 2 months until 10th wave shows up.

David has made insightful blog post about Attanni with some discussion below:

http://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2016/10/attani-mindlink-next-big-thing.html?m=1

We have recorded one of the practice matches with Parattanni. It was test-video so no sound included:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RcHBo0EoN3Q

With the arrival of Hot Cop I'm not sure Fangs have legs. RAC + Hot Cop + Gunner + Vader will burn both the Fang's focus tokens, assuming it doesn't kill the Fang outright.