A question on reddit made me re-read the rules on touching and now I'm confused.

Specifically I'm confused about whether or not 2 ships are touching if the maneuver can be executed without an overlap happening, but the bases or nubs appearing to be in contact after the move. The reason I'm confused is in the wording of the rules. From the manual:

TOUCHING Two ships are touching if one ship overlapped the other ship while executing a maneuver and their bases are touching as a result.

And since it refers to overlapping, that's defined as:

OVERLAPPING SHIPS A ship overlaps another ship when executing a maneuver if its base overlaps the other ship’s base. If this happens, move the moving ship backward along the template until it is no longer overlapping another ship.

So from the rules it sounds like the only way 2 ships can be touching is if an overlap happened, meaning that it was impossible to place the maneuvering ship down without it resting partially on top of the other ship.

Are two ships touching if the maneuvering ship can be placed without an overlap, but appears to be making contact?

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: "Touching" is a game state that can only be arrived at as the result of overlapping ship bases during a maneuver, and only ended as the result of one of the ships successfully moving away, i.e. changing position through a maneuver or action such that the bases are no longer in contact. Yes, this means if a Lambda and a YV-666 overlap and then both do their stop maneuvers, they're still touching. But if the YV-666 was Bossk with Expert Handling and instead of overlapping on a maneuver he barrel rolls into contact with the shuttle they're not "touching", even though the bases are in contact, and they could both execute a stop maneuver (Bossk might need a Wingman or Inertial Dampeners for this) and still not be touching.

"Touching" is a game state, not to be confused with the normal meaning of the word (aka: physically adjacent).

When you execute a maneuver where a ship lands really close to another ship, you are in 1 of 2 possible situations:

A) The ship you just moved did overlap the other ship. Therefore, the ship is placed to be physically adjacent, and the 2 ships are considered to be touching (the actual game state).

B) The ship you just moved did not overlap the other ship. Therefore, even if the ships are very, very close, they are not touching (the game state).

You and your opponent need to agree in which of these 2 states the game is. If you cannot come to an agreement because it is too close to call, have a TO come over and make a ruling and roll a die / flip a coin for it.

To answer your actual question:

> Are two ships touching if the maneuvering ship can be placed without an overlap, but appears to be making contact?

If there was no overlap, as your question mentions, then they are not touching (game state), even if they are physically adjacent.

Touching can only happen as a result of an overlap.

However, Touching can be maintained if neither ship moves.

Touching is a game state that should not be confused with physically adjacent. You could use a barrel roll to get physically adjacent to another ship but you could NOT use it cause an overlap and set up a touching situation where the two ships would be unable to attack each other.

Not in my house it doesnt!

Oops, I've said too much.

But if you were to bump directly behind a ship i.e. 2 small bases or 2 large bases, and both ships executed a 1 forwards, you would not be touching the next turn, because you were moved back so that you don't overlap in the inital bump, even though both ships are 'touching' similar to the barrel roll which can be moved to physically touch but not be in base contact.

But if you were to bump directly behind a ship i.e. 2 small bases or 2 large bases, and both ships executed a 1 forwards, you would not be touching the next turn, because you were moved back so that you don't overlap in the inital bump, even though both ships are 'touching' similar to the barrel roll which can be moved to physically touch but not be in base contact.

This last bit sounds confusing. Yes, you can barrel roll a ship and end up in base contact, but you can't normally barrel roll and overlap another ship, so the "touching" game state would not occur. If a ship is touching another ship, it is in base contact. But if a ship is in base contact, it's not considered touching as a game state if it didn't overlap to get there.

Being "in base contact" and "touching" are two very different game states and the terms don't mingle well.

But if you were to bump directly behind a ship i.e. 2 small bases or 2 large bases, and both ships executed a 1 forwards, you would not be touching the next turn, because you were moved back so that you don't overlap in the inital bump, even though both ships are 'touching' similar to the barrel roll which can be moved to physically touch but not be in base contact.

This last bit sounds confusing. Yes, you can barrel roll a ship and end up in base contact, but you can't normally barrel roll and overlap another ship, so the "touching" game state would not occur. If a ship is touching another ship, it is in base contact. But if a ship is in base contact, it's not considered touching as a game state if it didn't overlap to get there.

Being "in base contact" and "touching" are two very different game states and the terms don't mingle well.

I got it the wrong way round then. You can barrel roll to be in base contact, but not touching.

I know what I meant...

Yeah, that's better.