Sorry if I've missed this somewhere, but are the top 16 lists written anywhere?

Thanks

Dan

Sorry if I've missed this somewhere, but are the top 16 lists written anywhere?

Thanks

Dan

They are in the first post in this thread .

So we are saying that there are too many ways to 'break' core mechanics of the game i.e. stress?

Zuckuss and the Emperor are messing with dice, but other cards are too, and the Emperor is pretty expensive on top of that.

I'm not sure that a broad statement like "large ships are overpowered" has legs considering that the #2 list in this worlds was a pair of small ships. How many large ship lists did he have to defeat to get there?

Frankly, I'm not sure why that list wins anything. Although, I will hazard that Miranda is really strong and I griped about how she didn't even have a doughnut hole after Dash and TLT. But... still, I cant imagine that he didnt have bad luck with Corran at all ever until inexplicably the last match.

Seriously, I don't understand the Corran Miranda list.

Bombs WRECK aces. Also, it's amazingly hard to avoid a bomb from a k-wing.

Not necessarily true. Its easy as long as you don't approach head-on (and you avoid tailing too close). Asteroids can also help by limiting possible SLAM options.

But its not only the damage from the bombs and missiled that is important. The sheer threat of taking a 5 dice homing missile to the face or to eat a Conner net forces the opponent to fly a lot more carefully. Which is exactly what Corran Horn wants. If he takes a hit he wants to come around, regen a few shields and Miranda buys him this time. Or vice-versa.

This list is very dangerous to low and mid HP ships and totally able to delete such ships if they only get one good occasion. A homing missile plus a Corran double tap is dangerous to most ships. The Corran/Miranda player just needs a lot of patience to set these things up and not die a horrible death.

Both Corran and Miranda are good endgame duelists too if it comes to 1v1s.

The list suffers against high hitpoint lists however, as you can't joust most of these in any way, and against PWT as these can shoot miranda when she can shoot them and prevent her from regenerating.

So this list basically has a huge skill requirement and needs tons of practice against every possible enemy and most of us could just not make it work at all!

The Corran/Miranda list draws considerable power out of bombs and Homing missiles. Kevin flew it so well that he managed to get crucial bombs off and the bonus damage from Sabine seriously threatens lower HP enemies.

But its not only the damage from the bombs and missiled that is important. The sheer threat of taking a 5 dice homing missile to the face or to eat a Conner net forces the opponent to fly a lot more carefully. Which is exactly what Corran Horn wants. If he takes a hit he wants to come around, regen a few shields and Miranda buys him this time. Or vice-versa.

This list is very dangerous to low and mid HP ships and totally able to delete such ships if they only get one good occasion. A homing missile plus a Corran double tap is dangerous to most ships. The Corran/Miranda player just needs a lot of patience to set these things up and not die a horrible death.

Both Corran and Miranda are good endgame duelists too if it comes to 1v1s.

The list suffers against high hitpoint lists however, as you can't joust most of these in any way, and against PWT as these can shoot miranda when she can shoot them and prevent her from regenerating.

So this list basically has a huge skill requirement and needs tons of practice against every possible enemy and most of us could just not make it work at all!

I get it----I've played against it before

The Corran/Miranda list draws considerable power out of bombs and Homing missiles. Kevin flew it so well that he managed to get crucial bombs off and the bonus damage from Sabine seriously threatens lower HP enemies.

But its not only the damage from the bombs and missiled that is important. The sheer threat of taking a 5 dice homing missile to the face or to eat a Conner net forces the opponent to fly a lot more carefully. Which is exactly what Corran Horn wants. If he takes a hit he wants to come around, regen a few shields and Miranda buys him this time. Or vice-versa.

This list is very dangerous to low and mid HP ships and totally able to delete such ships if they only get one good occasion. A homing missile plus a Corran double tap is dangerous to most ships. The Corran/Miranda player just needs a lot of patience to set these things up and not die a horrible death.

Both Corran and Miranda are good endgame duelists too if it comes to 1v1s.

The list suffers against high hitpoint lists however, as you can't joust most of these in any way, and against PWT as these can shoot miranda when she can shoot them and prevent her from regenerating.

So this list basically has a huge skill requirement and needs tons of practice against every possible enemy and most of us could just not make it work at all!

I get it----I've played against it before

OP: For Charles Jan ter Horst. Top 8 Yavin systems open, 2016 Regionals Winner, 2015 & 2016 Belgium Nationals Runnerup.

For Jelte de Boer. Top 8 Yavin systems open, 2016 Regionals Winner.

Bombs WRECK aces. Also, it's amazingly hard to avoid a bomb from a k-wing.

Not necessarily true. Its easy as long as you don't approach head-on (and you avoid tailing too close). Asteroids can also help by limiting possible SLAM options.

Once in dogfighting range, if the Miranda moves first it can set dial to bomb with zero guesswork . A conner net on an Imperial Ace is very potent. Sabine Crew makes things even worse.

Here is the K-Wing's maneuver options for Advanced Slam.

More stats! These are all on post #2.

Meta Comparisons for Worlds 2013 - 2016


Unless otherwise noted, baselines are:

• Worlds 2013 Top Cut (16)
• Worlds 2014 Top Cut (32)
• Worlds 2015 6-2 or better (32)
• Worlds 2016 6-2 or better (41)

Faction breakdown
2013 2014 2015 2016
Rebels 56.25% 62.5% 40.6% 24.4%
Imperials 43.75% 37.5% 25.0% 29.3%
Scum 34.4% 46.3%

Named vs Generic usage by points

|--------- 2016 --------- |
2013 2014 2015 41 16 8 4
Named Pilots 33.3% 53.2% 53.8% 76.0% 76.2% 88.6% 91.7%
Generic Pilots 66.7% 46.8% 46.2% 24.0% 23.8% 11.4% 8.3%
Vanilla generics 66.7% 46.8% 12 .7% 10.0% 2.1% 0.0% 0.0%

"vanilla generics" are intended to represent the wave 1-3 jousting archetype, and exclude the following cards. For more background see here .

• Emperor Palpatine
• Twin Laser Turret
• Zuckuss crew
• TIE Fighter + Crackshot
• Contracted Scouts + Torpedoes

Archetype Breakdown

Year 2013 2014 2015 |----------- 2016 ---------- |

players 16 32 32 41 16 8 4

TIE Swarm 31.25% 18.75% 6.25% (0) 0% 0% 0% 0%

4 Ship Rebels (no TLT) 18.75% 9.38% 0% (0) 0% 0% 0% 0%

YT1300 + support 18.75% 12.50% 0% (1) 2.44% 0% 0% 0%

Dual YT1300 6.25% 3.13% 0% (0) 0.00% 0% 0% 0%

Rebel Swarm (no TLT) 6.25% 6.25% 3.13% (1) 2.44% 0% 0% 0%

Imp. Bombers 6.25% 0.00% 0.00% (0) 0.00% 0% 0% 0%

Rebel Control 6.25% 6.25% 6.25% (0) 0.00% 0% 0% 0%

Misc Imperial 6.25% 6.25% 0% (0) 0.00% 0% 0% 0%

Palp Aces 0.00% 0.00% 9.38% (8) 19.5% 25% 37.5% 25%

Fat Han 0% 25% 0% (1) 2.44% 6.25% 12.5% 25%

Triple Aces / Defenders 0% 3.13% 4.88% ( 2) 4.88% 6.25% 0% 0%

Whisper + Miniswarm 9.38% 3.13% (0) 0% 0% 0% 0%

6 Sigma 3.13% 0% (0) 0% 0% 0% 0%

TLT Spam 15.63% ( 2) 4.88% 6.25% 0% 0%

Misc Scum 3.13% (2) 4.88% 0% 0% 0%

Rebel Swarm with TLTs 3.13% (0) 0% 0% 0% 0%

Rebel Ace + TLTs 9.38% (0) 0% 0% 0% 0%

Scum Anchor + TLTs 3.13% (1) 2.44% 6.25% 0% 0%

BroBots 15.63% (1) 2.44% 0% 0% 0%

Dash / Ace 9.38% (2) 4.88% 0% 0% 0%

Rebel Aces (small) 6.25% (3) 7.32% 6.25% 12.5% 25%

VT-49 + Ace 3.13% (2) 4.88% 6.25% 0% 0%

Rebel Bombers 0% ( 1) 2.44% 0% 0% 0%

Dengaroo (6) 14.6% 18.8% 25% 25%

Mindlink Manaroo / Fenn / + (1) 2.44% 6.25% 12.5% 0%

Dual Shadow Caster (1) 2.44% 6.25% 0% 0%

Triple Scouts (1) 2.44% 6.25% 0% 0%

Dual Ghost (1) 2.44% 0% 0% 0%

Bossk + (4) 9.76% 0% 0% 0%

Ship Breakdown by Points

Year 2013 2014 2015 |---------- 2016 -------- |

players 16 32 32 41 16 8 4

TIE Fighter 34.25% 24.65% 8.06% 0.34% 0% 0% 0%

TIE Advanced 0% 0% 4.30% 0% 0% 0% 0%

TIE Interceptor 0% 1.96% 5.21% 2.58% 2.23% 0% 0%

Imperial Firespray 4.75% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%

TIE Bomber 4.75% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%

Lambda Shuttle 1.48% 2.99% 5.78% 7.56% 11.42% 8.33%

TIE Phantom 9.41% 2.56% 1.00% 2.56% 0% 0%

TIE Defender 0% 0% 13.61% 19.57% 22.3% 9.09%

VT-49 1.88% 3.00% 3.69% 0% 0%

TIE Punisher 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%

TIE/FO 1.37% 1.89% 3.79% 7.58%

TIE / Adv. Proto 1.59% 0% 0% 0%

TIE / SF 0% 0% 0% 0%

T-65 X-wing 23.25% 5.14% 0% 2% 0% 0% 0%

Y-wing 5.13% 1.56% 12.64% 1.66% 0% 0% 0%

A-wing 0% 0% 0.47% 0.83% 2.13% 4.25% 8.5%

YT-1300 19.88% 25.01% 0% 2.88% 4.12% 8.25% 16.5%

B-wing 8.00% 11.32% 4.93% 2.59% 0% 0% 0%

HWK-290 0% 3.45% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%

E-wing 2.88% 8.70% 2.37% 3.00% 6.00% 12%

Z-95 13.14% 1.51% 0.29% 0% 0% 0%

YT-2400 5.36% 2.72% 0% 0% 0%

K-wing 4.67% 6.10% 3.25% 6.50% 13%

T-70 X-wing 2.34% 1.01% 0% 0% 0%

Ghost 0% 1.95% 0% 0% 0%

Attack Shuttle 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%

ARC-170 0% 0% 0% 0%

Scum Z-95 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%

Scum Y-wing 15.61% 6.68% 9.38% 0% 0%

Scum HWK-290 0.84% 0% 0% 0% 0%

Scum Firespray 0% 1.02% 0% 0% 0%

Starviper 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%

M3-A 0% 0.59% 0% 0% 0%

Kihraxz 0.69% 0% 0% 0% 0%

IG-88 17.23% 2.44% 0% 0% 0%

YV-666 6.36% 0% 0% 0%

G1-A 0% 0% 0% 0%

JumpMaster 19.5% 27.2% 29.4% 25%

Protectorate 3.57% 4.04% 8.07% 0%

Shadowcaster 6.16% 9.38% 0% 0%

Alternative Firing Arc Usage by Points

Year 2013 2014 2015 |------------ 2016 ---------- |

players 16 32 32 41 16 8 4

Overall Turret 22.8% 30% 34.6% 41.4% 47.7% 44.2% 54.5%

Rebel Turret 40.4% 48% 40.0% 50.1% 59.0% 59.0% 59.0%

Imperial Turret 7.5% 10.2% 9.8% 0% 0%

Scum Turret 47.9% 56.6% 73.2% 78.5% 100%

Scum Mobile Arc 13.3% 18.8% 0% 0%

How the mighty have fallen:

Their master didn't show up

Quick thoughts in response the MJ's last batch of stats.

* Turrets. Oh my. Easy mode? At least list picking anyway.

* Jumpmasters. Can't imagine what this play % would have looked like without the nerf.

* Wave 1-4 stuff. Gone. TIE Swarm? TIE Advanced? T-65? Hawk? Bomber?

* New stuff: TIE s/f? Arcs? G1A? All the T-70s?

Wow.

A specific narrow reading of those stats: Small base Scum ships are a design fail so far. That is not a recrimination (its uncommon to get things right the first time), just a reference point for future work.

A specific narrow reading of those stats: Small base Scum ships are a design fail so far. That is not a recrimination (its uncommon to get things right the first time), just a reference point for future work.

Definitely this.

The G1A probably would have been pretty decent before u-boats. TLT could have hurt, but being ps3 for the generic G1A means you can PS kill a y-wing potentially, which gives them a leg up over PS2 b-wings.

The M3A was overcosted and too squishy with the title.

The Kihraxz was overcosted, though not quite as badly as the x-wing since you can at least get 5. But if you look at the PS8 Duchess in the TIE Striker at 23 points vs the PS9 talonbane being 28 with 1 extra shield (though we don't know dials, and the kihraxz at least gets a couple upgrade slots), or the 25 point PS6 graz the hunter, the kihraxz should clearly be cheaper.

Starviper is about 4 points overcosted compared to the fang. They have identical action bars, identical upgrade slots, and an identical statline ecept for the 1 shield on the starviper. The fang has an arguably better dial with having green hard turns. And the starviper PS1 is 5 points more than the Ps1 fang, which is ALSO at least 1 point overcosted. And the fang has the option of the title, which is at least as good as the starviper's 1 shield if it triggers and saves a damage at least once in a game.

The fang is arguably the best generic, but even that one is overcosted by a minimum of 1 point by pretty much any comparison you can make.

A specific narrow reading of those stats: Small base Scum ships are a design fail so far. That is not a recrimination (its uncommon to get things right the first time), just a reference point for future work.

Well, how many of the small base ships that are there are in because they were designed well from the start (Y-Wing needed TLT, Defenders X7, etc.)? The fact that the protectorate made it is, in fact, better than most ships.

Edit: The basic use of small ships that make it is because they have a very narrow use or have access to a very useful mechanic (like regen) or upgrade. At this point in the game, no small ship in a Tier 1 as a whole without the use of access to those.

How the mighty have fallen:

players 16 32 32 41 16 8 4

TIE Fighter 34.25% 24.65% 8.06% 0.34% 0% 0% 0%

Is there any word as to what lists did well in the Team Epic side event?

Is there any word as to what lists did well in the Team Epic side event?

Oof... Considering the massive effort it took to even get this info for the main event, it's probably gonna be really difficult to pull any of that data.

Is there any word as to what lists did well in the Team Epic side event?

Oof... Considering the massive effort it took to even get this info for the main event, it's probably gonna be really difficult to pull any of that data.

Plus it's just a one off so matchup strengths and weaknesses matter much more.

Are there links to watch the matches on youtube? thanks

If I had to say something firm- I believe FFG has been extremely cautious about how most generic ships have been costed, particularly small based generic ships. The 20 point K-fighter, the 23 point G1A, the 14 point M3A. In my opinion, these are the kind of ships that need to be pushd toward the bleeding edge. They need to be well-costed and competitive.

The M3A did exceptional well actually. Most people didn't think much of it... That changed aftrr it squeezed a crit, hit, hit into dengar...

The new title change to the M3A is actually very nice. They make wonderful ion or mangler carriers.

2 shield upgrades in top 16 is my favorite fact.

Is there similar info about the Epic games during Worlds (lists, wins, ...)?