I know that, I was exagerating a bit on her abilities but she's one hard cookie to kill with AS

Man, I love it when Squadrons scatter 1 die hits....

Man, I love it when Squadrons scatter 1 die hits....

Sometimes you need to man, sometime you need to

I'm not quite sure who has come out better with the squadrons. If we just look at named aces (as there's 3 of each),the one that stands out a little bit more is Valen "Smiles" Rudor, because of his cost, 3 black AS (while still only max 3 damage) means his average damage is higher and his ability of basically throwing friendly squadrons to be killed first then you still have to deal with a scatter/brace makes him a very good choice in any list

Ten Numb I like, but am getting that Nym feeling about him. At least its two blue AS to get the crit

Well, for a dead game (apparently), I think getting better and as long as there isn't too much power creep, more Campaigns adding cards will keep it fresh. Can't wait to play CC

I'm dumb.

I just realized that if a squad is treated as obstructed while defending, other squads can't attack it. I was wondering why everyone was slavering over Cienna Ree. Now I belatedly realize why.

Only "while defending". Other squads can shoot at it, minus one die. It's just like Jamming Fields. It's not obstructed for determining engagement.

Plus squads can in fact attack other obstructed squads at distance 1. It's at -1 dice, mind you, and you're not engaged (meaning you're not stuck there by that squadron, Escort doesn't trigger, Swarm doesn't trigger, etc.), but you can still attack one another.

You absolutely still are engaged. It says "while defending", the exact same wording as Jamming Fields. For all other purposes (and for all other times outside of "while defending"), you aren't obstructed.

Just gonna circle back to this to point out that Snips was talking about obstruction in general, not Ciena specifically, when he said you're not engaged. In that context, he is correct: if you are obstructed, you are not engaged, but can still attack.

You are also correct that for both Ciena and JF, you are only obstructed during the attack, meaning things like escort and engagement are still functionally identical. Ciena's big strength is that she is also obstructed against SHIPS' attacks, which is amazing.

which is amazing.

It certainly is...

But I guarantee, the first time you yell "I am Invincible!", the trope'll get you...

It really seems like the designers are trying to stymie the token A-Wing Rhymerball resistance with the inclusion of Grit on the two new bombers. It'll be harder to corral them with the combination of Intel and Grit.

That's diverting more points away from ship heavy fleets to counter Imperial bombers.

Also, throwing it out there now, Nunb is freaking terrible and you'll never see him apart from somebody trying to be cute. 45% chance to proc on his own, 58% with Toryn, speed 2 (look at the YV-666 and YT-1200 to see how good speed 2 anti-squadron is). Compare to Mauler, who gets the same ability guaranteed, just for showing up, for much cheaper.

"But Ard," you say, "I can Yavaris and Adar and Toryn!"

Yes, you've spent 5+10+7+19 = 41 points, not to mention having activated a B-wing, for (if the stars align and you get all of these effects every shot), a 92% chance for it to go off once, an 82% chance to go off twice, and a 58% chance to go off three times. edit: I'm full of ****, see this for accurate numbers.

Okay, yeah, I changed my own mind there... He's got pretty good potential in that combo. Especially since that effect will bypass scatters and braces, even on his target.

Still going to be super hard to get into position and take a lot of investment to make him work, though.

Also, throwing it out there now, Nunb is freaking terrible and you'll never see him apart from somebody trying to be cute. 45% chance to proc on his own, 58% with Toryn, speed 2 (look at the YV-666 and YT-1200 to see how good speed 2 anti-squadron is). Compare to Mauler, who gets the same ability guaranteed, just for showing up, for much cheaper.

"But Ard," you say, "I can Yavaris and Adar and Toryn!"

Yes, you've spent 5+10+7+19 = 41 points, not to mention having activated a B-wing, for (if the stars align and you get all of these effects every shot), a 92% chance for it to go off once, an 82% chance to go off twice, and a 58% chance to go off three times.

Okay, yeah, I changed my own mind there... He's got pretty good potential in that combo. Especially since that effect will bypass scatters and braces, even on his target.

Still going to be super hard to get into position and take a lot of investment to make him work, though.

Look at it from a different angle - if you're already taking BWings in your list, is it worth 5 points to upgrade one of them to Ten Numb to boost AS?

Also, throwing it out there now, Nunb is freaking terrible and you'll never see him apart from somebody trying to be cute. 45% chance to proc on his own, 58% with Toryn, speed 2 (look at the YV-666 and YT-1200 to see how good speed 2 anti-squadron is). Compare to Mauler, who gets the same ability guaranteed, just for showing up, for much cheaper.

"But Ard," you say, "I can Yavaris and Adar and Toryn!"

Yes, you've spent 5+10+7+19 = 41 points, not to mention having activated a B-wing, for (if the stars align and you get all of these effects every shot), a 92% chance for it to go off once, an 82% chance to go off twice, and a 58% chance to go off three times.

Okay, yeah, I changed my own mind there... He's got pretty good potential in that combo. Especially since that effect will bypass scatters and braces, even on his target.

Still going to be super hard to get into position and take a lot of investment to make him work, though.

Look at it from a different angle - if you're already taking BWings in your list, is it worth 5 points to upgrade one of them to Ten Numb to boost AS?

With how tight those points usually are in those lists, that's a pretty tough sell.

The problem is, if I'm spending all those resources (Adar, Yavaris, committing Toryn's boat to the fray) on turbo-mode anti-squadron, I'm not spending them attacking ships. You don't get a whole lot of Yavaris double taps with B-wings, and blowing one to double tap AS that may or may not have a sweet effect is pretty gambly.

Also, throwing it out there now, Nunb is freaking terrible and you'll never see him apart from somebody trying to be cute. 45% chance to proc on his own, 58% with Toryn, speed 2 (look at the YV-666 and YT-1200 to see how good speed 2 anti-squadron is). Compare to Mauler, who gets the same ability guaranteed, just for showing up, for much cheaper.

"But Ard," you say, "I can Yavaris and Adar and Toryn!"

Yes, you've spent 5+10+7+19 = 41 points, not to mention having activated a B-wing, for (if the stars align and you get all of these effects every shot), a 92% chance for it to go off once, an 82% chance to go off twice, and a 58% chance to go off three times.

Okay, yeah, I changed my own mind there... He's got pretty good potential in that combo. Especially since that effect will bypass scatters and braces, even on his target.

Still going to be super hard to get into position and take a lot of investment to make him work, though.

Look at it from a different angle - if you're already taking BWings in your list, is it worth 5 points to upgrade one of them to Ten Numb to boost AS?

With how tight those points usually are in those lists, that's a pretty tough sell.

The problem is, if I'm spending all those resources (Adar, Yavaris, committing Toryn's boat to the fray) on turbo-mode anti-squadron, I'm not spending them attacking ships. You don't get a whole lot of Yavaris double taps with B-wings, and blowing one to double tap AS that may or may not have a sweet effect is pretty gambly.

But nothing prevents you to use Ten Numb to attack ships. He's as good as a regular BWing and can survive longer due to braces. So its about opportunity cost. The mere presence of Ten Numb may force opponent to fly differently.

EDIT: Essentially you're paying for braces and a better AS armament that you'll use if you're prevented from attacking a ship. The nice additional effect is an extra bonus.

Also, throwing it out there now, Nunb is freaking terrible and you'll never see him apart from somebody trying to be cute. 45% chance to proc on his own, 58% with Toryn, speed 2 (look at the YV-666 and YT-1200 to see how good speed 2 anti-squadron is). Compare to Mauler, who gets the same ability guaranteed, just for showing up, for much cheaper.

"But Ard," you say, "I can Yavaris and Adar and Toryn!"

Yes, you've spent 5+10+7+19 = 41 points, not to mention having activated a B-wing, for (if the stars align and you get all of these effects every shot), a 92% chance for it to go off once, an 82% chance to go off twice, and a 58% chance to go off three times.

Okay, yeah, I changed my own mind there... He's got pretty good potential in that combo. Especially since that effect will bypass scatters and braces, even on his target.

Still going to be super hard to get into position and take a lot of investment to make him work, though.

Look at it from a different angle - if you're already taking BWings in your list, is it worth 5 points to upgrade one of them to Ten Numb to boost AS?

With how tight those points usually are in those lists, that's a pretty tough sell.

The problem is, if I'm spending all those resources (Adar, Yavaris, committing Toryn's boat to the fray) on turbo-mode anti-squadron, I'm not spending them attacking ships. You don't get a whole lot of Yavaris double taps with B-wings, and blowing one to double tap AS that may or may not have a sweet effect is pretty gambly.

But nothing prevents you to use Ten Numb to attack ships. He's as good as a regular BWing and can survive longer due to braces. So its about opportunity cost. The mere presence of Ten Numb may force opponent to fly differently.

EDIT: Essentially you're paying for braces and a better AS armament that you'll use if you're prevented from attacking a ship. The nice additional effect is an extra bonus.

Opportunity cost is exactly what it's about. Am I going to spend those extra 5 points to upgrade an X-wing to Wedge, who with the same setup might well pop Howlrunner and Mauler outright and mitigate incoming damage significantly by doing so? To upgrade a Y-wing to Dutch to mitigate damage by perpetual lockdown? Or to Nunb, too spread around the damage and just tank the fighters till they all pop, sacrificing B-wing antiship damage in the meantime?

Hard choice.

But what I'm not going to do is just plop Nunb down as my only squadron screen and expect him to roll the Rhymerball singlehandedly, or take him in any other situation without the aforementioned amplifiers.

The difference for me, is this...

Mauler is Distance 1 of himself

Ten Numb is Distance 1 of his Target.

Which could incorporate a lot more people, formation dependant....

The thing with Numb is for 5 points, those are some cheap defense tokens. As a unique, he'll also be right at home in a Rieekan fleet. You're right in that it will be like Nym; the proc will be somewhat hard. However, if you can get a double proc with Yavaris, it will be amazing. All you need is for him to contribute for that one turn in the squad fight. That's the norm for my B-Wings anyway. After that he can go be a bomber with defense tokens.

The thing with Numb is for 5 points, those are some cheap defense tokens.

This, so much this. A quick glance across all of the aces shows that they tend to be about 50% more expensive and can easily pick up 50% more staying power than a regular squadron (this varies a bit depending upon enemy dice, match-up and squadron layout). You don't need his ability to trigger often.

The concept we need here to understand him is variance. There's a lower percentage of his ability triggering, but when it does, it stands to do more damage. The thing about spending 5 points in any fleet is sometimes those 5 points are exactly what you need, and sometimes you go three or more games with them not making a difference in the outcome. I think he's a fair unit depending upon what else you want to do.

So comparing Numb to Wedge and Dutch is kind of a moot point because they are also bombers with an antisquad ability. Both do it very well, even more so combined together. But Numb does it even better.

If you run against a carrier fleet, you can use him to attack squads and deal AOE. If you run against ships, you bring the pain. Wedge is good against activated squads, making him conditional. Dutch can shut down squads or deal 1 extra point. But their combined antiship dice can yield only 1 more point of damage, and no Acc.

I am going to run him simply for his threat factor. You bunch up your squads, I'm going to blast em all down. Or you avoid him and my little bomber intel ball and I get to fly into your ships.

Getting his ability off shouldn't be too hard. If you are bringing Numb, chances are you have other bombers and BCC and hopefully Toryn, possibly even Yavaris. So you can double tap with Yavaris and get a reroll from Toryn. I often find when I am trying to kill squads, I just need 1 more damage to finish it off. Numb fills this perfectly for me, and Yavaris AA is great with Toryn as well. There is a lot of synergy going on here - the potential to deal 4 damage to all squads in a single arc within range 1 of your target is not something to brush off. And you save yourself 16 points by not taking Dutch (because honestly, you who doesn't run Dutch, Wedge, Yavaris and Toryn together).

What I explained is clearly the dream scenario where your opponent flies into your face which is unlikely. But if they aren't close to your ships, where are they? Likely sitting out of range or scattered all over the board, both of which benefit you.

I'm actually considering leaving Dutch out to dry in my next list. Love the Wedge/Dutch combo, but I'm really warming to the idea of the trench buddies (Biggs/Wedge/Luke). It's a rather crazy amount of staying power in a Rieekan list.

*Edit*

Here's the full squad list I had in mind:

Biggs

Luke

Wedge

Jan

Kenyan

Numb

Dagger (unique B-Wing with swarm if you don't know, we just don't know it's exact points yet)

Comes in around 131 or 132 depending on Dagger. One less B-Wing than I usual bring, but every single one is a Rieekan zombie.

I think rebs are going to have to rely even more on AA. The imps have way too many ways of saying either you can't attack me out no damage. While virtually everything we've seen up to this point for the rebs have hard imp counters.

Not crying broken I think it's fine rebs just have to rely more on aa. Although man yavaris AA followed by double trap tein numb..... Ouch

And the new ships have black aa dice, so rhymer can shoot them and not be fited on

I think rebs are going to have to rely even more on AA. The imps have way too many ways of saying either you can't attack me out no damage. While virtually everything we've seen up to this point for the rebs have hard imp counters.

Not crying broken I think it's fine rebs just have to rely more on aa. Although man yavaris AA followed by double trap tein numb..... Ouch

And the new ships have black aa dice, so rhymer can shoot them and not be fited on

Or we wait for E-Wings.

Jonos + Raider = Flotilla hunter.

Has Dagger been spoiled at all? I tried to find it and I can't.

Not completely.

It was somewhat visible on Box Art.

We could see that it has the Swarm keyword, but the Armaments were either obscured in the case of Anti-Ship, and too difficult to make out for Anti Squadron.

Points costs were similarily obscured.

But why swarm. It makes no sense to have swarm as only the z95 will have swarm. Seems it be a waste

Has Dagger been spoiled at all? I tried to find it and I can't.

Not completely.

It was somewhat visible on Box Art.

We could see that it has the Swarm keyword, but the Armaments were either obscured in the case of Anti-Ship, and too difficult to make out for Anti Squadron.

Points costs were similarily obscured.

But why swarm. It makes no sense to have swarm as only the z95 will have swarm. Seems it be a waste

Why?

Swarm doesn't need Swarm.

Swarm only needs someone else.

Hehe VSD dance time...it might not be amazing but Jonus gives Warlord another out that doesn't require H9. And since we are indulging ourselves lets add TRC and Needa for two doubles On a more reasonable note given that Defenders might be able to play into a different style of bombing aka: range 1, Jonus looks good. Because only the ISD doles out supporting Red Dice fire from long reliably due to the sheer number of them.

I like Jonus a lot especially with what's coming. Arquitens/VSD/ISD Red Dice at Long Range are a lot better with him in the list. It will also let you focus down and punish CR90 evade tokens, Floatillas that try to be aggressive or set him up off a Squadron via Demo so no more Sensor Team jank required. A squadron token on Demo/Arqu will really help them punch damage if Jonus gets involved.

Has Dagger been spoiled at all? I tried to find it and I can't.

Not completely.

It was somewhat visible on Box Art.

We could see that it has the Swarm keyword, but the Armaments were either obscured in the case of Anti-Ship, and too difficult to make out for Anti Squadron.

Points costs were similarily obscured.

But why swarm. It makes no sense to have swarm as only the z95 will have swarm. Seems it be a waste

Why?

Swarm doesn't need Swarm.

Swarm only needs someone else.

My bad thought it need swarm to work

I'm actually considering leaving Dutch out to dry in my next list. Love the Wedge/Dutch combo, but I'm really warming to the idea of the trench buddies (Biggs/Wedge/Luke). It's a rather crazy amount of staying power in a Rieekan list.

*Edit*

Here's the full squad list I had in mind:

Biggs

Luke

Wedge

Jan

Kenyan

Numb

Dagger (unique B-Wing with swarm if you don't know, we just don't know it's exact points yet)

Comes in around 131 or 132 depending on Dagger. One less B-Wing than I usual bring, but every single one is a Rieekan zombie.

Instead of Dagger, bring a YT-1300 with its 7 hull and escort to soak up the Biggs damage transfer.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned about the "snipe" keyword is at distance 2 you can very possibly fire directly on the intel squadrons, while still not being engaged with escorts. While Saber squadron won't kill Jan on their own, paired with IG-88 they might have a chance in one activation. That doesn't even begin to mention what will happen when E-wings arrive. I see imperial players either needed to change their tactics and spread out their squadrons a bit more, or bring multiple intel squadrons (which means less bombers for the Rhymer ball). Also, Ten Numb is not to be underestimated....