The issue is "t65" doesn't really exist on the actual game cards. Have to find a way to make t65s unique from t70. It also would discourage Biggs squads as positioning opens up for dogfighting. Please offer your opinion.

T65 Refit

Title card. X-Wing only.

Your Action bar gains the Barrel Roll action. Replaces the Boost Action on your toolbar if equipped on a T70 ship.

0 points

Rebel alliance only

Done

(Use subfaction distinction)

Not bad. I like how you kept it from being an auto include card for the T-70.

I do think this helps Biggs as he can barrel roll to keep someone in range one, but i don't think it's that big a deal.

Honestly, a barrel roll isn't going to help the X-Wing much at this point. Wedge might see some more play, I suppose; but really, it needs something pretty significant to stack up against Palp Defenders, TLTs, and other meta super-jousters.

Hopefully, FFG will realize this, but will NOT just make the X-Wing ANOTHER super jouster. If they test it against aces or Defenders and say "alright, now THIS can hold its own against THAT," then we're really just getting power creep.

The X-Wing needs a fix that will:

• Let the low-PS ships have a way to catch arc-dodgers;
• Let the low-PS ships not get skill-killed by things like Dengaroo;
• Give them all some amount of passive damage mitigation to help against things like TLTs, stress, tractor beams, and the like;
• Give the high-PS ships the maneuverability to arc-dodge; and/or
• Increase their overall damage output to make it possible to damage the tanky builds in the meta.

When you consider all that, and the desire to avoid power creep, a fix gets . . . complicated.

That was slightly off-topic. I'll also say that the T-70 X-Wing could actually benefit from an X-Wing fix -- at least, the generics could. The problem there is that the T-70 is already a bit ahead of the T-65, so any fix that benefits them both equally would really just make the T-70 generics playable and the T-65s slightly less competitive than their big brothers. Thus, the idea of something that interacts with their unique action bars isn't a bad one, although Fickle's suggestion also works pretty well.

Honestly, a barrel roll isn't going to help the X-Wing much at this point. Wedge might see some more play, I suppose; but really, it needs something pretty significant to stack up against Palp Defenders, TLTs, and other meta super-jousters.

Hopefully, FFG will realize this, but will NOT just make the X-Wing ANOTHER super jouster. If they test it against aces or Defenders and say "alright, now THIS can hold its own against THAT," then we're really just getting power creep.

The X-Wing needs a fix that will:

• Let the low-PS ships have a way to catch arc-dodgers;
• Let the low-PS ships not get skill-killed by things like Dengaroo;
• Give them all some amount of passive damage mitigation to help against things like TLTs, stress, tractor beams, and the like;
• Give the high-PS ships the maneuverability to arc-dodge; and/or
• Increase their overall damage output to make it possible to damage the tanky builds in the meta.

When you consider all that, and the desire to avoid power creep, a fix gets . . . complicated.

That was slightly off-topic. I'll also say that the T-70 X-Wing could actually benefit from an X-Wing fix -- at least, the generics could. The problem there is that the T-70 is already a bit ahead of the T-65, so any fix that benefits them both equally would really just make the T-70 generics playable and the T-65s slightly less competitive than their big brothers. Thus, the idea of something that interacts with their unique action bars isn't a bad one, although Fickle's suggestion also works pretty well.

Though the idea of an "s-foils" card has been thoroughly beaten to death, it might just be time for a mechanic that lets you boost at the beginning of the combat phase/end of the activation phase. That idea of that sort of move already exists in the very small example of Jake with Kyle, but it's effective and it might just be a way to bring some of those ships back in.

if it were me, I'd let you take a specific "Rogue Leader" title for Wedge, Luke, or many other Rebellion X-Wings that lets other fielded X-Wings benefit from their special ability and package that with some new pilots for the X-Wing, but that seems more controversial.

That was slightly off-topic. I'll also say that the T-70 X-Wing could actually benefit from an X-Wing fix -- at least, the generics could. The problem there is that the T-70 is already a bit ahead of the T-65, so any fix that benefits them both equally would really just make the T-70 generics playable and the T-65s slightly less competitive than their big brothers. Thus, the idea of something that interacts with their unique action bars isn't a bad one, although Fickle's suggestion also works pretty well.

I disaagree that the T70 is ahead of the T65. There are 3 Xwings that are used competitively- Biggs Darklighter, Wes Janson, and Poe Dameron. Two of them are 65s.

I actually think the x-wing (both versions) are fine right now.

When building rebels lately an x-wing always seems to find a way in.

If you don't find ello Etsy maneuverable enough then none of this "fixes" will be enough for you.

How about this one:

T-65 dogfighter (2 pts): title, X-Wing only

Your action bar gains the 'powerslide' (for lack of a better word) action.

Powerslide action:

If you performed a white maneuver this turn, you may receive a stress token to rotate your ship by 90 degrees. You may adjust your position along the width of the maneuver template as if you were barrel-rolling. A ship can not flee the map or overlap obstacles by performing a powerslide.

Something like this would make the X-Wing unique again. It would make the ship very unpredictable, yet the ability couldn't be abused every turn. I'd love it.

How about this one:

T-65 dogfighter (2 pts): title, X-Wing only

Your action bar gains the 'powerslide' (for lack of a better word) action.

Powerslide action:

If you performed a white maneuver this turn, you may receive a stress token to rotate your ship by 90 degrees. You may adjust your position along the width of the maneuver template as if you were barrel-rolling. A ship can not flee the map or overlap obstacles by performing a powerslide.

Something like this would make the X-Wing unique again. It would make the ship very unpredictable, yet the ability couldn't be abused every turn. I'd love it.

I've posted something somewhat similar in another thread a while back, but had it worded a bit differently:

T-65 X-Wing - 0 points

X-Wing Only, Rebel Only title

After performing a [left bank] or [right bank] maneuver, you may rotate your ship 90 degrees. If you do, treat that maneuver as a red maneuver.

My thought was pretty similar to yours. This gives the ship a unique way of flying, without actually making it more "powerful." Simply more interesting to play. Lower PS X-Wings could use it to be nearly impossible to predict movements turn to turn, and it would be really difficult to arc dodge them when you don't know what direction their arc will be facing while you're planning maneuvers. High PS X-Wings would be able to use it to adjust their arcs on the fly, allowing them to actively try to put things in their arc without turning them into arc dodgers themselves by giving them boost or barrel roll.

I also threw in the red maneuver wording to draw parallels to Stay on Target, allowing Targeting Astromech to trigger off of one of these drift maneuvers, as I prefer to call them. This allows the X-Wing to actually make excellent use out of what is otherwise a stupidly overpriced Astromech for what it does on the T-65 (Normally only triggering off of a K-Turn on the X-Wing). This was one of three parts of an X-Wing fix idea I had, which you can read the rest of in the "List Your X-Wing Fixes" thread.

Honestly, for me the best solution would be this:

Errata all the current T65 pilots to have their ship called 'T65 X-Wing'. You write a list of the ones that are changing, and you change future printings of them.

Then you issue upgrades that say 'T65 only' to your heart's content.

The alternative is issuing whatever upgrade with 'may not have Tech slot' which would also work fine but is more awkward and hacky.

Honestly, for me the best solution would be this:

Errata all the current T65 pilots to have their ship called 'T65 X-Wing'. You write a list of the ones that are changing, and you change future printings of them.

Then you issue upgrades that say 'T65 only' to your heart's content.

The alternative is issuing whatever upgrade with 'may not have Tech slot' which would also work fine but is more awkward and hacky.

This so much, they can errata huge gameplay effects, like more hull points and restrictions, why can't they errata the ship name on a bunch of pilot cards?

Honestly, for me the best solution would be this:

Errata all the current T65 pilots to have their ship called 'T65 X-Wing'. You write a list of the ones that are changing, and you change future printings of them.

Then you issue upgrades that say 'T65 only' to your heart's content.

The alternative is issuing whatever upgrade with 'may not have Tech slot' which would also work fine but is more awkward and hacky.

Honestly, for me the best solution would be this:

Errata all the current T65 pilots to have their ship called 'T65 X-Wing'. You write a list of the ones that are changing, and you change future printings of them.

Then you issue upgrades that say 'T65 only' to your heart's content.

The alternative is issuing whatever upgrade with 'may not have Tech slot' which would also work fine but is more awkward and hacky.

This so much, they can errata huge gameplay effects, like more hull points and restrictions, why can't they errata the ship name on a bunch of pilot cards?

Just read post #2 .

Honestly, for me the best solution would be this:

Errata all the current T65 pilots to have their ship called 'T65 X-Wing'. You write a list of the ones that are changing, and you change future printings of them.

Then you issue upgrades that say 'T65 only' to your heart's content.

The alternative is issuing whatever upgrade with 'may not have Tech slot' which would also work fine but is more awkward and hacky.

Honestly, for me the best solution would be this:

Errata all the current T65 pilots to have their ship called 'T65 X-Wing'. You write a list of the ones that are changing, and you change future printings of them.

Then you issue upgrades that say 'T65 only' to your heart's content.

The alternative is issuing whatever upgrade with 'may not have Tech slot' which would also work fine but is more awkward and hacky.

This so much, they can errata huge gameplay effects, like more hull points and restrictions, why can't they errata the ship name on a bunch of pilot cards?

Just read post #2 .

I honestly disagree with that. I think it's more confusing to use the subfactions that aren't used *anywhere else in the game* than to reference things in ways which are used elsewhere (limiting upgrades to having particular slots or not) or just to errata things to the way they would have been written in the first place if the game had initially been written knowing that there would be another type of x-wing in 5 years...

Could just add a card that says New Republic Retrofit, that gives the "T-65" a boost action and Evade.

Maybe it could give a -5 to your point value instead, allowing you to always equip torpedo's to the ship, also would make the torpedo x-wing more viable again like they are in the lore.

I'm a fan of "give the ship a new reposition" idea so it doesn't step on either the TIE barrel roll or boost.

For example, the side-slip: Perform a [1 left turn] or [1 right turn] maneuver. At the end, rotate the ship 90 degrees opposite the direction of turn to remain facing in the original direction. If you would overlap another ship, obstacle, or leave the play area you cannot perform this maneuver.

The X-Wing needs a fix that will:

Let the low-PS ships have a way to catch arc-dodgers; block, with X-wings or use a cheapo Z-95 or A-wing

Let the low-PS ships not get skill-killed by things like Dengaroo; unfortunately that's how the game is set up

Give them all some amount of passive damage mitigation to help against things like TLTs, stress, tractor beams, and the like; get into range one, get an R2 Astro, use IA

Give the high-PS ships the maneuverability to arc-dodge; BB-8 and EU on Bat-wedge! and/or

Increase their overall damage output to make it possible to damage the tanky builds in the meta. torps with chimps and a little support from Blount tracers

Just some suggestions

I honestly disagree with that. I think it's more confusing to use the subfactions that aren't used *anywhere else in the game* than to reference things in ways which are used elsewhere (limiting upgrades to having particular slots or not) or just to errata things to the way they would have been written in the first place if the game had initially been written knowing that there would be another type of x-wing in 5 years...

Something isn't used anywhere until it is used.

They could as well use the ships' icons that are unique to every ship. Something like

only

Everything is better than writing something on an independent document that many newcomers to the game don't even know it exists.

I honestly disagree with that. I think it's more confusing to use the subfactions that aren't used *anywhere else in the game* than to reference things in ways which are used elsewhere (limiting upgrades to having particular slots or not) or just to errata things to the way they would have been written in the first place if the game had initially been written knowing that there would be another type of x-wing in 5 years...

Something isn't used anywhere until it is used.

They could as well use the ships' icons that are unique to every ship. Something like

only

Everything is better than writing something on an independent document that many newcomers to the game don't even know it exists.

Ship icons would be better than factions for my money - my point with factions is at least partly that the words 'Resistance, Rebel Alliance, Galactic Empire and First Order' don't show up on the cards, just the symbols - using the names stands to confuse matters.

The ship icons at least appear on the cards.

But I still think fixing the problem by *actually fixing the problem (the lack of the word 'T65' in the original x-wing ship name) is better than fixing it by writing around it in the long term.

Make the X-wing a (plasma) torpedo carrier to be reckoned with!!


"Red 5" 0pt

Unique title, T-65 X-wing only.

"When attacking with a torpedo you may change all dice results to crits".

BAM!! Thats how to fix the X-wing..

What's odd, is that the ship totally barrel rolls in the films... Am I right?

What's odd, is that the ship totally barrel rolls in the films... Am I right?

Or so I've heard.

How about this one:

T-65 dogfighter (2 pts): title, X-Wing only

Your action bar gains the 'powerslide' (for lack of a better word) action.

Powerslide action:

If you performed a white maneuver this turn, you may receive a stress token to rotate your ship by 90 degrees. You may adjust your position along the width of the maneuver template as if you were barrel-rolling. A ship can not flee the map or overlap obstacles by performing a powerslide.

Something like this would make the X-Wing unique again. It would make the ship very unpredictable, yet the ability couldn't be abused every turn. I'd love it.

I've posted something somewhat similar in another thread a while back, but had it worded a bit differently:

T-65 X-Wing - 0 points

X-Wing Only, Rebel Only title

After performing a [left bank] or [right bank] maneuver, you may rotate your ship 90 degrees. If you do, treat that maneuver as a red maneuver.

My thought was pretty similar to yours. This gives the ship a unique way of flying, without actually making it more "powerful." Simply more interesting to play. Lower PS X-Wings could use it to be nearly impossible to predict movements turn to turn, and it would be really difficult to arc dodge them when you don't know what direction their arc will be facing while you're planning maneuvers. High PS X-Wings would be able to use it to adjust their arcs on the fly, allowing them to actively try to put things in their arc without turning them into arc dodgers themselves by giving them boost or barrel roll.

I also threw in the red maneuver wording to draw parallels to Stay on Target, allowing Targeting Astromech to trigger off of one of these drift maneuvers, as I prefer to call them. This allows the X-Wing to actually make excellent use out of what is otherwise a stupidly overpriced Astromech for what it does on the T-65 (Normally only triggering off of a K-Turn on the X-Wing). This was one of three parts of an X-Wing fix idea I had, which you can read the rest of in the "List Your X-Wing Fixes" thread.

Great minds think alike ...

I had a very similar idea after playing some generic E-wings as part of a league challenge.

My idea was based on the idea of "drifting" or basically kicking your rudder to skid and gain a shot off to one side.

The mechanic I envisioned was this: After executing a [insert limitation here, banks, hard turns, speed-2 or speed-3 only, etc.] maneuver, you may rotate your ship 90 degrees in the same direction as the originally chosen maneuver. Then, assign a [drift] token to the far side of the ship base. Your next round's maneuver is overridden by an ion-like "drift" effect that causes you to continue drifting a 1-straight to that side. That's the only penalty to the maneuver adjustment, and you get to keep your actions.

The issue is "t65" doesn't really exist on the actual game cards. Have to find a way to make t65s unique from t70. It also would discourage Biggs squads as positioning opens up for dogfighting. Please offer your opinion.

T65 Refit

Title card. X-Wing only.

Your Action bar gains the Barrel Roll action. Replaces the Boost Action on your toolbar if equipped on a T70 ship.

0 points

I think this is an elegant proposal.

I have been getting a lot of mileage out of Vectored Thrusters on PTL Porkins. I would much rather have that capability for free, and still have the Mod slot open for IA.

I wrote about some x-wing fix in another topic.

I think that every x-wing is equipped with some sort of torpedoes, so...

Torpedoes carrier

Rebel only - x-wing t65 only

Torpedoes slot. 0.

You may equip another torpedoes upgrade card.

Reduce that card points cost of 4 points to a minimum of 1 point.

After you perform an attack with a secondary weapon that hits, gain a target lock on the defender.

But not everyone wants to use torpedoes, so...

Agility refit

Rebel only - Small ship only

Torpedoes slot. -2

This card has a negative point cost.

2 and 3 hard turns maneuvers become green.

Everytime you perform a green maneuver, assign an evade token to your ship.

Are they viable?

The first idea is similar to the tie-advanced fix.

The second is a mix between the a-wing chardaan refit and one of the tie-defender fix.

thought of this a while ago but never posted it

Rogue Squadron
Title, T-65 X-Wing Only 0pts.

To be honest i played a few test games to see if it worked and it did make dog fighting more interesting

but i think a 'fix' for the T-65 is to change the dial

maybe the mythical SWX58 is the Partisan T-65 and might address this but who knows

happy for any criticism as i'm sure i'll get some 8)

cheers

FBJ