Well, I'm not holding out too much hope.

Compare the Omicron Group Pilot to the Starkiller Base Pilot.

You've increased in cost by 9. You gain:

• 1 Attack Die (normally ~ 4 points, essentially replacing the empty cannon slot - Expose, Opportunist )
• 1 Hull (nominally 3 points - Hull upgrade)
• 1 Shield (nominally 4 points - Shield Upgrade)
• 2 tech slots (empty slots aren't generally that great, but two slots usually costs about 1 point - Sabine's Masterpiece, Virago)
• Co-ordinate

That's a pretty good bundle deal - given that you can still fit 3 starkiller base pilots in with ten points of upgrades to spare.

I'm not anticipating a great dial!

Still, the speed 2 banks being green gives hope. Unless it's going to have its green banks at speed 2 and white at speed 1, which will give it issues manouvring slowly!

I've stated this in other threads, but this ship has to pull its weight in the actual combat to be worth its points. Even the base SBP with FCS and PA (which is my starting point for basically every pilot) takes up 34 points. That's just over a third of a squad. If this is meant to be a primarily support ship, like the Lambda, it fails miserably due to its high point cost.

Edit: If this could function as a large gunboat, it would be a great hole filled in the Imperial arsenal as well. Imps don't have a Large-based arced battleship, ala YV-666 or Ghost.

Hopefully FFG learned from their mistakes of only red turns and give the Upsilon AT LEAST a white 2 turn.

How was that a mistake? The Lambda Shuttle to this day is one of the best designs in the game. It is really hard to make it work, but since it is so overstatted the payoff is amazing. Then you can also add the single best crew card in the game to that hyperefficient frame...

best designed ship my ass. Its literally only seen as a palpmobile because its such an abysmal dial only palp can make it worth the effort.

Yes, its stupid cheap for 10hp. Yes, it has a 3die gun and a cannon. Yes it has 2 crew and a sensor. Who the hell cares when once you get behind it (REALLY EASY TO DO) it will never, ever bring its guns to bare again.

It cant move worth a ****. That nullifies its use in literally any application except palpmobile.

Hopefully FFG learned from their mistakes of only red turns and give the Upsilon AT LEAST a white 2 turn.

How was that a mistake? The Lambda Shuttle to this day is one of the best designs in the game. It is really hard to make it work, but since it is so overstatted the payoff is amazing. Then you can also add the single best crew card in the game to that hyperefficient frame...

best designed ship my ass. Its literally only seen as a palpmobile because its such an abysmal dial only palp can make it worth the effort.

Yes, its stupid cheap for 10hp. Yes, it has a 3die gun and a cannon. Yes it has 2 crew and a sensor. Who the hell cares when once you get behind it (REALLY EASY TO DO) it will never, ever bring its guns to bare again.

It cant move worth a ****. That nullifies its use in literally any application except palpmobile.

1. "Best designed" does not suggest over-powered, or even "most effective."

2. There have been numerous articles that suggest strategies detailing exactly how to build a Shuttle that can get to enemies behind it.

3. That it has become 100% a Palp carrier speaks to the effectiveness of Palp, nothing more.

4. I recommend you check your attitude when offering a clearly uneducated, or at least mis-informed, opinion. That being said, this is the internet, so I respect that this point is largely ineffective.

show me a list that uses a lambda without palp that doesnt fold to pretty much any list even a joke one.

That dial kills it. Without baffles it cant turn for jack, and with baffles youre making it even easier to remove before it turns around.

I have never seen nor heard of a lambda being used except as either a palpmobile or a new player who hasnt learned how bad that dial is yet. I never said best design meant overpowered or most effective, best design means it has some form of relevancy so people use it. What is so "best design" about it when its only a palpmobile?

Also, like you said, this is the internet, As a result, any opinion you dont agree with is automatically misinformed.

Hopefully FFG learned from their mistakes of only red turns and give the Upsilon AT LEAST a white 2 turn.

How was that a mistake? The Lambda Shuttle to this day is one of the best designs in the game. It is really hard to make it work, but since it is so overstatted the payoff is amazing. Then you can also add the single best crew card in the game to that hyperefficient frame...

best designed ship my ass. Its literally only seen as a palpmobile because its such an abysmal dial only palp can make it worth the effort.

Yes, its stupid cheap for 10hp. Yes, it has a 3die gun and a cannon. Yes it has 2 crew and a sensor. Who the hell cares when once you get behind it (REALLY EASY TO DO) it will never, ever bring its guns to bare again.

It cant move worth a ****. That nullifies its use in literally any application except palpmobile.

But haven't you been playing for a while? Doomshuttle was and still is pretty great. Sure, a Decimator does it better relatively speaking, but it also will cost twice as much. Then you have the Buzzsaw (which is where that combo comes from), which really manages to harvest all of that sick efficiency. While there are some crazy guys that do, Lambdas still don't work spammed. A single one however can make an excellent addition to a list. Before Palp that was between Doom (Vader), Buzzsaw (FCS + Gunner) and Hacksaw (Buzzsaw + Tactician), the latter sometimes with EU. When Palp was released he ended that variety since he is better than those options. That doesn't mean that the others were bad, though, they just have been powercrept.

It also had great success before Palp in wave 6 with the Whisper, Soontir, Doomshuttle list that took some bigger events and had a good showing at many. The idea that the Lambda is useless is flat out wrong.

The Jumpmaster dial will be just fine; just a slight mod on the tiny interior type and an imperial dial cover, done.

Yeah i know of the buzzsaw list and its one of those lists that if you dont know exactly how it works it will own you. They still have a silly wide turn rate and we have a lot more very quick ships than before that can get behind it and stay behind it.

I never said it was NEVER a good ship. Its old. So is the firespray and falcon, which you never see anymore either.

Even before palp, i hated that shuttle. Yes its probably playstyle conflict, but when youre in an area with 30 or so active players and you never, ever see it outside the obvious palpmobile (or at any tournies in a 2hr radius) then you tend to believe everyone has the same consensus you do: it sucks.

Like i said earlier the statline and upgrade bar for the cost is nuts. I TRIED to use the dang thing for so long because im an underdog player, i dont usually run meta lists. That dial is crippling though since it makes it super predictable, and with the influx of super maneuverable ships it just makes it even less favorable.

Yeah i know of the buzzsaw list and its one of those lists that if you dont know exactly how it works it will own you. They still have a silly wide turn rate and we have a lot more very quick ships than before that can get behind it and stay behind it.

I never said it was NEVER a good ship. Its old. So is the firespray and falcon, which you never see anymore either.

Even before palp, i hated that shuttle. Yes its probably playstyle conflict, but when youre in an area with 30 or so active players and you never, ever see it outside the obvious palpmobile (or at any tournies in a 2hr radius) then you tend to believe everyone has the same consensus you do: it sucks.

Like i said earlier the statline and upgrade bar for the cost is nuts. I TRIED to use the dang thing for so long because im an underdog player, i dont usually run meta lists. That dial is crippling though since it makes it super predictable, and with the influx of super maneuverable ships it just makes it even less favorable.

Other people tried it and made it work, its just that now all other versions are inferior to Palpatine. That however is not a problem with the design of the ship which I maintain is excellent. High barrier to use it with high payoff. It took the X-Wing community a long time to figure this ship out and even then it was still nieche, but good. Kind of sad that Palp removed that, he is the very opposite as an easy to use card with gigantic payoff.

Want a list right now that uses a non Palp Shuttle?

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Emperor Palpatine (8)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Darth Vader (3)

"Wampa" (14)

The Inquisitor (25)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

TIE/v1 (1)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Is it good? Kinda, not ideal, though. Will it beat traditional Palpaces? Heck yes, Vader will see to that!

Now, I get that you might not enjoy using it. Probably most people won't. But the design at its core remains fantastic.

Yeah i know of the buzzsaw list and its one of those lists that if you dont know exactly how it works it will own you. They still have a silly wide turn rate and we have a lot more very quick ships than before that can get behind it and stay behind it.

I never said it was NEVER a good ship. Its old. So is the firespray and falcon, which you never see anymore either.

Even before palp, i hated that shuttle. Yes its probably playstyle conflict, but when youre in an area with 30 or so active players and you never, ever see it outside the obvious palpmobile (or at any tournies in a 2hr radius) then you tend to believe everyone has the same consensus you do: it sucks.

Like i said earlier the statline and upgrade bar for the cost is nuts. I TRIED to use the dang thing for so long because im an underdog player, i dont usually run meta lists. That dial is crippling though since it makes it super predictable, and with the influx of super maneuverable ships it just makes it even less favorable.

30 local players is not anywhere near a viable sample for producing any kind of actual data. It is just an example of group think, as embodied by the "local" meta. Local metas are very distinct -- there are reports of JumpMasters/U-Boats NEVER being popular in different areas of the world.

Your personal inability to use the shuttle is also not a viable sample, it's your own personal experience, and solely reflective of that (again, without more supportive data).

Being a niche ship doesn't stop it from being of excellent design. Being as close to "balanced" as anything else in the entire roster of ships does, though. Fantastic stat line and upgrade options, extremely difficult dial. Can be used extremely well, but is high risk, high reward.

Palpatine is easy mode, and makes other ships far more viable. It's not better than the other versions, it's just the easiest use of the ship. And there have been PLENTY of overpowered ships that have come out since. But being overpowered is an example of poor design, overall. Balance is what should be the target.

You don't see other Lambdas for the same reason we don't see plenty of other fantastic-at-the-time ships -- the game has outgrown them. Doesn't, in any way, detract from the Lambda, and it's design, however.

What I mean is that the Lambda isn't actually fun to fly, to me. Because I'm using it only for palp or Vader, the 3 attack dice that MAYBE will shoot twice or thrice in the game is a very small cherry on the icing, if I wanted buzzsaw I'd just go with Whisper, who can get the same job done and stay alive longer.

The UPS, provided it has a white turn, actually looks fun to fly, I'm already envisioning a list involving 3 of them.

What I mean is that the Lambda isn't actually fun to fly, to me. Because I'm using it only for palp or Vader

just like in the movies

For what it is worth, I love flying the Lambda. Generally with gunner, fire control and anti-pursuit lasers. Mightn't be optimal, but I enjoy flying it. Normally paired with a couple of aces or a mini tie swarm.

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So, now that we are having the Zuckuss meta, I was thinking about some durable gunship Imperial squads.

Double Upsilon shuttle + ace sounds like it could be a very interesting tanky build. With FCS the shuttles would hit like a truck, and the ace could be cleaning up on the flank.

Palpatine even might not be needed.

What would be your ideas for such builds?

You could even do triple upsilon and have 10 points to play with for upgrades

So, now that we are having the Zuckuss meta, I was thinking about some durable gunship Imperial squads.

Double Upsilon shuttle + ace sounds like it could be a very interesting tanky build. With FCS the shuttles would hit like a truck, and the ace could be cleaning up on the flank.

Palpatine even might not be needed.

What would be your ideas for such builds?

You could even do triple upsilon and have 10 points to play with for upgrades

Dial info sorely needed

.

Big problem we're going to run into with these big guys, as with all low defense ships regardless of dial, is getting ps killed

Gonna have to heavily consider kylo in there somewhere for damaged cockpits

Even if hes not on the ups itself, the ups can coordinate him out. Not sure how that list would look, though. Youre more likely putting kylo on the ups regardless of action inefficiency mostly due to points

Unless kylo IS the ups ofc

Also, need to see that dial, like right now!

I so hope we get a dial that is like, "wow, that's a really good dial for a large ship" rather than the, well, they couldn't engineer anything to fly in space better than the Lambda even though they have plenty of resources and experience. If it doesn't have a good dial, it'll make the lack of a turret option or rear arc become a huge negative for the points this bugger costs. I hope the same designer who cued up the way-better-than-the-ship-deserved Jumpmaster gets to set this one too....if he hasn't been fired; ooooh, I hope not.

So, now that we are having the Zuckuss meta, I was thinking about some durable gunship Imperial squads.

Double Upsilon shuttle + ace sounds like it could be a very interesting tanky build. With FCS the shuttles would hit like a truck, and the ace could be cleaning up on the flank.

Palpatine even might not be needed.

What would be your ideas for such builds?

You could even do triple upsilon and have 10 points to play with for upgrades

I'd use two with Omega Leader or a similar costed ship with Weapons Guidance and Rec Spec.

My worst case guess for the dial is the lambda dial but no red aside from the stop, Red stop, green 1 straight and bank, Hard 2 white, bank 2 green, Straight 2 green, white or green straight 3, white bank 3

Best case guess is red hard 1, green 1 bank/straight, green 2 bank/straight, white 2 hard, green 3 straight, white 3 bank, red 3 hard, red 5 k-turn but insanely doubt that will happen

Maybe we of the Empire will get the mythical (IE: rebel's and scum have them) large base with k-turn(s), s-loop(s), and white hard turns at all speeds, however I doubt it. I mean if a freighter can tokyo drift then why not a yacht. Lol I'm just being facetious of course (and maybe a little bitter about freighters and scout ships ).

Firespray has a 3k/4k *cough*

Firespray has a 3k/4k *cough*

I did mention scum ships having them right? Lol

Firespray has a 3k/4k *cough*

not even in my wildest dreams would I imagine this yv-costing mother lover to have a k-turn

(not that I would mind, FFG)