I'm excited for General Hux as an uber-fleet officer. I was always one to run fleet officer before, and now it just gets sweeter and more far-reaching. A small TIE swarm will be deadly with this ship backing it up.

Also, I picture this running more like a support battleship than a pure support ship. It wants to be in the action and blasting away while handing out focus to its friends. As long as the dial has one white turn...

So the article says the Show You the Dark Side crit is pushed thru under shields. But the card doesn't say that or even imply that. It just says when you suffer critical damage take the chosen crit. Am I missing somthing?

I gotta bring back my thread about crit damage

Basicallt, crit damage = uncanceled crit result

This can either take a shield OR if dealing a damage card deals it face up

INSTEAD

IWSYTDS deals a faceup damage card (the one you chose)

Which doesnt care about shields

So it is specified on the condition card itself

So the article says the Show You the Dark Side crit is pushed thru under shields. But the card doesn't say that or even imply that. It just says when you suffer critical damage take the chosen crit. Am I missing somthing?

So, effectively you receive damage that bypasses shields.

So the article says the Show You the Dark Side crit is pushed thru under shields. But the card doesn't say that or even imply that. It just says when you suffer critical damage take the chosen crit. Am I missing somthing?

Whenever there is an uncancelled [crit] result on the attack roll you suffer critical damage. If you had shields, normally you would simply remove a shield token, but being under the condition, instead of removing a shield token, you recieve the chosen card face-up.

So, effectively you receive damage that bypasses shields.

And these are the type of interactions that I believe caused the flair up on the Nova Squadron facebook page today. Even if RAW this is clear, I would be willing to bet over 50% of players who are reading that card would not get that out of it even after their 2nd or 3rd read through. The complexity of the game is on the rise, and fringe players seem to be backing off due to it.

But, that seemed inevitable anyways.

I downloaded what seemed to be the latest huge ship rules from ffg and it said huge ships follow normal setup.

I'm by no means an epic expert so I'm assuming I missed something but based just on that it looked like the combo should work.

Nope. Huge ships deploy first before all other ships. No way to put Dormitz out before the Raider.

Only under tournament rules. In non-tournament play, nigeltastic is correct - all ships deploy in ascending PS order, including the big guys.

So the article says the Show You the Dark Side crit is pushed thru under shields. But the card doesn't say that or even imply that. It just says when you suffer critical damage take the chosen crit. Am I missing somthing?

Whenever there is an uncancelled [crit] result on the attack roll you suffer critical damage. If you had shields, normally you would simply remove a shield token, but being under the condition, instead of removing a shield token, you recieve the chosen card face-up.

So, effectively you receive damage that bypasses shields.

And these are the type of interactions that I believe caused the flair up on the Nova Squadron facebook page today. Even if RAW this is clear, I would be willing to bet over 50% of players who are reading that card would not get that out of it even after their 2nd or 3rd read through. The complexity of the game is on the rise, and fringe players seem to be backing off due to it.

But, that seemed inevitable anyways.

sounds more like reading comprehension is on the decline

RAW is quite clear, our misconceptions about what "Critical damage" entails is what prompted me to start the Kylo Ren thread ages ago

Is it just me or is each wave just oozing with more and more unnecessary complexities? Are they out of ideas for simple upgrades. For ezample VI and FCS. I have most of the ships and just play casually with friends. I worry as each new wave comes out my friends will lose interest in playing due to all these complexities of the new waves. Thoughts?

Anybody not interested in the complexities could just not introduce them when playing with friends, and all the people that love the new upgrades and don't feel they are too complex could just enjoy them.

Regardless of what was or wasn't meant on the Dark Side condition or in the rules..this is so easy to reword and make clear perfectly clear. Does FFG employ no one with a English, Communications, Legal, or Journalist degree? Someone with editing and proof reading skills, someone who knows words mean things? I find it very frustrating.

Because I do understand that words mean things the function of the card was perfectly clear when it was first revealed.

So the article says the Show You the Dark Side crit is pushed thru under shields. But the card doesn't say that or even imply that. It just says when you suffer critical damage take the chosen crit. Am I missing somthing?

Whenever there is an uncancelled [crit] result on the attack roll you suffer critical damage. If you had shields, normally you would simply remove a shield token, but being under the condition, instead of removing a shield token, you recieve the chosen card face-up.

So, effectively you receive damage that bypasses shields.

And these are the type of interactions that I believe caused the flair up on the Nova Squadron facebook page today. Even if RAW this is clear, I would be willing to bet over 50% of players who are reading that card would not get that out of it even after their 2nd or 3rd read through. The complexity of the game is on the rise, and fringe players seem to be backing off due to it.

But, that seemed inevitable anyways.

Honestly it seems like most of the times there is a rules debate about the way these things work it is people that don't seem to be very knowledgeable of the rules and also don't read the cards carefully. Fickle said way back when the condition was introduced that this was how it was going to work and he came to that conclusion based solely off of reading the card within the scope of the games current language and rules. It can't be that convoluted when he knew exactly how it was going to work prior to FFG clarifying it. I really think the "complexity" of the game is being overblown a bit. The condition cards all seem extremely simple to understand, it won't be long before most people know what they do without even referencing the cards, just like most of the other reference cards. People are just resistant to change, good change as well as bad change.

Regardless of what was or wasn't meant on the Dark Side condition or in the rules..this is so easy to reword and make clear perfectly clear. Does FFG employ no one with a English, Communications, Legal, or Journalist degree? Someone with editing and proof reading skills, someone who knows words mean things? I find it very frustrating.

But it is perfectly clear, provided you know the underlying rules. A lot of people simply had a preconceived assumption that taking a critical hit to the shields wasn't taking critical damage, which has actually never been the case. It just also hasn't mattered before (I'm pretty sure...).

Side note, deploying the raider at range 2 of this ship sounds spicy in epic.

Except that the Raider deploys first, so he won't get the benefit of Lt. Dormitz, and Huge ships don't get free actions, so Coordinate from the shuttle is useless.

...and ninja'd

I downloaded what seemed to be the latest huge ship rules from ffg and it said huge ships follow normal setup.

I'm by no means an epic expert so I'm assuming I missed something but based just on that it looked like the combo should work.

Well I'll be...you're right! Now, to be fair, most games of Epic are either scenario style or tournament style, so either the setup area is clearly outlined in the scenario, or you set up within Range 2 of the long edge of the 6'x3' play area as per the tournament rules. Admittedly it can be a bit ambiguous, and the first couple of times I played Epic, I didn't know about the tournament version of setting Huge ships first.

So the article says the Show You the Dark Side crit is pushed thru under shields. But the card doesn't say that or even imply that. It just says when you suffer critical damage take the chosen crit. Am I missing somthing?

Whenever there is an uncancelled [crit] result on the attack roll you suffer critical damage. If you had shields, normally you would simply remove a shield token, but being under the condition, instead of removing a shield token, you recieve the chosen card face-up.

So, effectively you receive damage that bypasses shields.

Woah...just to clarify. So you bypass shields because you are "suffering a critical damage" and not just "suffering damage" or does this have to do with the fact this is a condifion?

Otherwise Feedback-array would also bypass shields both on your self and on the opponent? (or have I been playing feedback-array wrong?)

It bypasses shields because instead of suffering the critical damage (ie an uncancelled KABOOM) the target is dealt the face-up pilot crit. It's the same reason that Wampa's pilot ability can bypass shields.

Woah...just to clarify. So you bypass shields because you are "suffering a critical damage" and not just "suffering damage" or does this have to do with the fact this is a condifion?

Otherwise Feedback-array would also bypass shields both on your self and on the opponent? (or have I been playing feedback-array wrong?)

No.

An uncancelled Hit result means that you suffer 1 damage . The results of suffering one damage are that you are dealt a facedown damage card unless you have shields, in which case you remove a shield token instead.

An uncancelled Crit result means that you suffer 1 critical damage . The results of suffering one critical damage are that you are dealt a face-UP damage card unless you have shields, in which case you remove a shield token instead.

What "I'll Show You The Dark Side Does" is take the effects of suffering that critical damage (taking a face-up card or losing a shield) and replace it with being dealt the chosen face-up damage card regardless of whether you have shields or not.

Feedback Array, on the other hand, does not replace the effects of suffering 1 damage it just creates a way of ensuring the opponent suffers 1 damage without rolling dice.

Hmmm... the nice Major just found a new girlfriend, methinks... Mara Jade. Stress for everyone range 1-3?

Stress for everyone *who doesn't already have it*.

Mara isn't that amazing. Extending her range out to 3 is very nice, but she's still not having a massive impact on their decision making unless they REALLY needed a white or red move RIGHT NOW.

Hmmm... the nice Major just found a new girlfriend, methinks... Mara Jade. Stress for everyone range 1-3?

For the purpose of your actions and Upgrade cards, you may treat friendly ships at Range 2-3 as being at Range 1.

At the end of the Combat phase, each enemy ship at Range 1 that does not have a stress token receives 1 stress token.

Oh derp yeah, that too.

Otherwise heck with Mara, Tactician would be the thing to throw on the Major.

Hmmm... the nice Major just found a new girlfriend, methinks... Mara Jade. Stress for everyone range 1-3?

For the purpose of your actions and Upgrade cards, you may treat friendly ships at Range 2-3 as being at Range 1.

At the end of the Combat phase, each enemy ship at Range 1 that does not have a stress token receives 1 stress token.

Oh, get lost

Is it too early to nickname this shuttle "Batman"?

I've been calling it the "Bat Wing" since it was revealed! I encourage others to follow.

Side note, deploying the raider at range 2 of this ship sounds spicy in epic.

OK....this got me excited! I started to think about putting a Raider way out there. Or...a Gozanti with Tie Bombers or Tie Interceptors. Man, you can cover a lot of ground if you get put out at R2, full speed Gozanti, and then release full speed! Raider getting in someone's grill right away is nasty, too!

Then....people said you can't. I got sad. Then, someone said it's just for tournament rules? Yes! You can do it crazy then! I love it! Man, that will just be nuts.

I have to say that the First Order is really starting to flesh out a bit. This ship really brings out Imperial synergy between Imperial ships. There wasn't a lot of that before. There were some cool cards...that had too short a range on them. So, first there are some great support crew that don't have crummy range, then there is the guy who lets you use all the other short range crew to good effect! I'm loving all the things you can do now! I really see Imperial synergy happening. It's not just a Rebel thing anymore.

I have to say that using Gen. Huxley on a Lambda and throw in some Tie Fighters and Tie FO's sound like a great idea. I used a list with Fleet Officer and 5 Tie Fighters and found the combo of a Focus and Evade to be great. Now, you get to give a Focus to 3 ships...and one of them gets one hit automatically through! That will be great for all those arc dodgers. I keep thinking that you need to have high PS to really use it vs PTL guys, though. I also like that you can change who it is each turn. I'm thinking a list that's something like this:

People need to remember one thing about the hard turning of the Lambda. If you used Advanced Sensors and had Engine Upgrade on the ship, you could Boost before you did a green 1 Bank. Yes, the turning radius is huge, but you actually got back in the action a lot sooner than you would otherwise. So, people should expect to use that on this thing if they are concerned about turning around with it. Yes, it is more points and you have to take Adv Sensors instead of FCS, but if you are worried about not being able to turn, then this is a way around it.

Maybe some people don't want to buy an Imperial Raider.

Shame on them!

Can't wait until we start seeing primary attack values of 5 or 6...

OK....just...stop it. Please. I can't think about that when we have Tie Fighters with 2 red dice Pew Pew. They can't even Pew Pew Pew.

Think there's some really interesting pilots and upgrade cards in the pack. I'll definitely be picking one up and want to try out Hux crew, which seems kind of insane...

Oh derp yeah, that too.

Otherwise heck with Mara, Tactician would be the thing to throw on the Major.

For the purpose of your actions and Upgrade cards, you may treat friendly ships at Range 2-3 as being at Range 1.

OK....this got me excited! I started to think about putting a Raider way out there. Or...a Gozanti with Tie Bombers or Tie Interceptors. Man, you can cover a lot of ground if you get put out at R2, full speed Gozanti, and then release full speed! Raider getting in someone's grill right away is nasty, too!

Then....people said you can't. I got sad. Then, someone said it's just for tournament rules? Yes! You can do it crazy then! I love it! Man, that will just be nuts.

Yeah...but you really need the right crowd to let you pull those shenanigans. By that I mean, if you are not playing tournament epic match, just 300+ points of whatever, then there is no standard for which/how many obstacles to use or where they're placed. From the Huge ship rules, all you have to go on is that everything sets up within range 1, and you setup in pilot skill order. According to tournament rules, all ships set up within range 1-2, so you don't even need Lieutenant Dormitz to set up so far out. It helps Epic tournament games get to the action faster. He'll still be helpful in Epic, just not for getting the huge ship way out there, in my opinion.

I have to say that the First Order is really starting to flesh out a bit. This ship really brings out Imperial synergy between Imperial ships. There wasn't a lot of that before. There were some cool cards...that had too short a range on them. So, first there are some great support crew that don't have crummy range, then there is the guy who lets you use all the other short range crew to good effect! I'm loving all the things you can do now! I really see Imperial synergy happening. It's not just a Rebel thing anymore.

I have to say that using Gen. Huxley on a Lambda and throw in some Tie Fighters and Tie FO's sound like a great idea. I used a list with Fleet Officer and 5 Tie Fighters and found the combo of a Focus and Evade to be great. Now, you get to give a Focus to 3 ships...and one of them gets one hit automatically through! That will be great for all those arc dodgers. I keep thinking that you need to have high PS to really use it vs PTL guys, though. I also like that you can change who it is each turn. I'm thinking a list that's something like this:

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

General Hux (5)

"Mauler Mithel" (17)

Veteran Instincts (1)

"Scourge" (17)

Veteran Instincts (1)

"Epsilon Ace" (17)

"Omega Leader" (21)

Adaptability (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Yep, I totally agree with you! First Order is really coming into its own. I can't get enough of my /fo's and /sf's, and I really wish the Upsilon were coming out this week instead of Heroes of the Resistance.