Hi All! First a quick intro – my name is Des, I’m a “new” table top RPG player having taken part in my first DnD 5e session earlier this year with a semi-regular group. I happened on Fantasy Flight Games Star Wars RPG by accident only last week and have been kicking myself that I didn’t find it sooner. Being a Star Wars fanatic and a voracious consumer of computer-based RPGs this seems like the perfect fit.

Having distributed knowledge of this game to the group we are in the process of assembling a regular team with a GM who has prior experience in this role and is also a nerd of all things Sci-Fi. Having chatted to the GM we have both come to realise the sheer scope of this RPG of which we are working to put together a story arc that encompasses all three books.

In our mind this would allow for significant character progression but has a downside in that once the character is selected it would not be possible to re-roll until death. This creates a potential story issue which I will outline.

Being a Star Wars fan I can see the temptation in selecting a Force Sensitive Exile (FSE) as a character specialisation to be able to take advantage of the upgrades in the Force and Destiny expansion. However, from a story point of view multiple players selecting a FSE devalues the special nature of this mechanic. By their very name FSEs are secretive people only demonstrating their powers as an action of last resort. This creates a subtext where, for all intents and purposes, the FSE exists as a regular member of the group until a significant event causes them to tip their hand, maybe to save another group member. Ultimately this creates a situation where the group are forced to re-evaluate their relationship with the user – do they give them up to the Empire? Fear them for what they represent? Accept them? So many possibilities render wonderful story hooks.

However, multiple FSEs may have a different effect potentially creating an “I’m Sparticus!” effect whereby one FSE is revealed which triggers others in the group to come forward. Personally I feel this devalues the role of the FSE which is a rarity in a galaxy purged of all but a few force users but I’ll admit that it does open up new avenues for story-telling.

I’m interested in hearing your views on the subject. As a GM receives a copy of each character sheet before the campaign begins do you therefore limit the number of FSEs in a campaign? If so, is there a ratio you favour of force users to non-force users? How do you go about selecting a force user?

I used to do that, limiting the number of Force sensitive PCs I would allow in my campaigns. I told my players that we would play for a while, and then I would approach one or two and say that they could buy into a Force sensitive spec if they wanted. My hope was to get a rotation going, so that for every campaign each player got the chance to be the special snowflake. But I started revising that policy down, first saying that people just had to sell me on their Force sensitivity -- what would make their character stand out as a Force sensitive? -- and then saying that all they had to do was "talk to me" before choosing to become Force sensitive, which was functionally identical to selling me on the concept.

I stopped doing that, though, because it's not fun for anyone.

Without realizing the message I was sending, I basically demanded my players prove themselves worthy of having fun based on criteria that existed in my own mind. If someone had a character concept they really wanted to play that involved being Force sensitive, yet I was the gatekeeper telling them half their idea was unusable, I was essentially neutering their enjoyment of the game. Worse, they didn't know what conditions they had to meet in order to get that character they wanted because I had the idea that all of these story decisions had to happen behind the curtain. Even when I realized my first approach was flawed, I corrected the wrong thing: I tried to keep my decision-making process hidden from the players, rather than laying out my reasons for wanting to limit Force sensitivity in my game.

I tell you this story so you can understand the danger in leaving it up to your own judgment on who can or cannot be a Force user. Instead, if you want to walk that path, you should make clear to your players your reasons for doing so: "I want each character to explore a different aspect of what Star Wars means," or "this campaign isn't meant to address the Force directly, so any development along Force using lines will happen off-screen," or what have you. When it comes to selecting who will be the Force user, ask if anyone has a character concept in mind that relies on Force abilities. Ask them to share the concept, because it may turn out their ideas are complimentary or can add to the story in different yet meaningful ways. If there really is only room for one Force user, see if they can decide amongst themselves who should play it; maybe someone has a backup idea they want to try instead. Finally, if they can't agree, you can step in and make the decision, but you need to make it clear it's not a personal slight and that non-Force users will get just as much of a chance to develop.

However, if you have a majority of players wanting to be Force sensitive, you may want to rethink the part of your campaign that's limiting their options. Remember, the Force works in mysterious ways, and it will likely try to bring Force users closer together.

Also, on the subject of story hooks, those are all good examples. Just don't lose sight of the golden rule: all PCs must be able to work together. It's the same idea that allows a character playing a bounty hunter to overlook the fact that a fellow party member has the Bounty Obligation. If you think it might be a problem, this should be discussed openly, too. If the PCs are likely to turn in any Force sensitives they find, the player of the Force user should know that so they can make sure they're hiding their abilities.

Honestly, if the GM and the group are cool with the players all being some degree of Force-sensitive, then I say roll with it.

Though truthfully, if you're going to potentially have that many Force users in the party, then you might as well open up the careers and specs from Force and Destiny as being available from the get-go instead of force the players to use EotE careers and then grab FSExile. And in spite of what many tend to think, Force and Destiny is not exclusively about the Jedi, and instead covers a broad range of Force users. Yes, the lightsaber is an iconic weapon and shows up in a fair bit of the artwork, but the variety of character options available is so much broader.

I leave character creation choices up to the player. If they aren't happy with what they are playing and they are not allowed to do the thing they want to do, they will lose interest. I've made suggestions to players in some of my larger groups, about what skills are the most lacking and what skills are the most covered by the group already.

While force sensitives may be a rarity in the galaxy post-jedi purge, they are still around and they are like magnets for other force sensitives. So it's quite possible, as shown by the movies and the Rebels series, for force sensitive characters to find one another in the galaxy and stick together if there's reason for it. It opens up story aspects for the GM, as now they can freely send Inquisitors after the FS characters, considering the way sensing others seems to work in the canon.

I have to agree with Donovan. If, as you've said yourself, you're using all three books anyway, The players in question should be able to start out as Force users from the getgo instead of relying on the Universal Spec. Remember, that spec (and the Emergent) were created to fill a void in the system until was released. They're not really necessary now, IMO.

I have to agree with Donovan. If, as you've said yourself, you're using all three books anyway, The players in question should be able to start out as Force users from the getgo instead of relying on the Universal Spec. Remember, that spec (and the Emergent) were created to fill a void in the system until was released. They're not really necessary now, IMO.

I think a lot depends on your setting. If you are in a setting where the Jedi basically don’t exist anymore, then I can see starting with EotE or AoR careers and allowing FSE to then later open up F&D specializations, but only on the basis of how the story plays out. In that setting, F&D careers don’t make sense to start with.

I have to agree with Donovan. If, as you've said yourself, you're using all three books anyway, The players in question should be able to start out as Force users from the getgo instead of relying on the Universal Spec. Remember, that spec (and the Emergent) were created to fill a void in the system until was released. They're not really necessary now, IMO.

I think a lot depends on your setting. If you are in a setting where the Jedi basically don’t exist anymore, then I can see starting with EotE or AoR careers and allowing FSE to then later open up F&D specializations, but only on the basis of how the story plays out. In that setting, F&D careers don’t make sense to start with.

I disagree. As Donovan said, the F&D careers are not necessarily Jedi careers. They include all types of Force users from Jedi and Sith to Baran Do Sages, Witches of Dathomir, Jensaaari, Fallanasee, Gand Findsmen, Shamans, etc. They also cover characters thatmay not even know that they're Force Sensitive, such as a mechanic with "uncanny" ability, a Detective who's "hunches" are a little "too" on point, a pilot with unbelievable reflexes, etc. These and more are all covered under the various Force User careers and Specializations. The book (and source books) even specifically state as much, giving examples and everything.

Go with whatever suits the themes of your game best. Force users are pretty awesome but they are balanced by needing LOTS of XP to get really awesome. The space wizards will lag behind other characters who can spend their XP on skills, talents and Signature abilities.

Also, you might want to think about what you want the Force to represent in your game. Is everyone a Force user? Is the theme of the Force in your game that the characters are hiding from inquisitors or whatever, keeping a low profile in the dark times? Or are they openly Jedi, kicking ass and taking names, fighting in wars and being lightsaber-wielding superheroes?

Career is important too. A Force-sensitive career means your character is Force to the very core, that it's central to their very being. The Exile and Emergent better represent a self-trained or barely-trained Adept of sorts, someone who has the Force as an add-on, they are still a Smuggler or an Ace or whatever but they have some ability with the Force. A Force-using career suggests they've been doing it most of their lives, they grew up as Sith or Jedi or some other tradition and the Force is central to what they are.

For us, I think FS Exile best represents a self-taught Adept trying to keep a low profile. It's perfect for canon games or for EoE style games where everyone is drifting around the Fringe in a tramp freighter. (Off topic, our Emergents represent a Force-adept trained for the military... kind of a Mass Effect thing - a Soldier career Emergent makes for an ME Vanguard class, and a Engineer Emergent makes for an ME Sentinel. They don't have the full training or abilities of a true Jedi, but they can break a LOT of enemy ships in a short time!)

Basically, an F&D game has the Force at its core - these games are about morality, ancient mysteries, old artefacts, etc. In an EoE or AoR game, Exile and Emergent allow you to play Force-Sensitive PCs without overwhelming the game. The game is still about scum and villainy, or the Galactic Civil War, but it allows you to introduce the Force in small doses without making it the core of your narrative.

Or you could mix all three - we've actually had characters from an F&D game join other groups and fight the Galactic War with the Alliance. But it's worthwhile to think a bit about these questions, to decide what kind of impact you want the Force to have on your games. Even if the characters are balanced, having a whole party of Force sensitives makes for a different game than a bunch of smugglers, hired guns and bounty hunters chumming around the galaxy in a YT1300.

Don't forget that if they pick a career from Force and Destiny, they may start with FR1, but they don't have to start with powers. They can progress through most of the trees without their characters even being consciously aware that they are Force Sensitive. Many of the "Force" talents are unconscious uses of the force. The character wouldn't know until a mentor (or holocron, etc) finds them, and reveals how to actively manipulate the Force. Even some powers could be unconscious uses of the Force. An earlier game a I ran had a player with FR1 and the Move power with fine control. He had no idea initially that he was force sensitive, and just used the move power when he was playing dice, which helped him win. Until he lost big to a Hutt (as the source of his obligation).

However, multiple FSEs may have a different effect potentially creating an “I’m Sparticus!” effect whereby one FSE is revealed which triggers others in the group to come forward. Personally I feel this devalues the role of the FSE which is a rarity in a galaxy purged of all but a few force users but I’ll admit that it does open up new avenues for story-telling.

I'll disagree with that, there's no inherent reason to preserve some kind of special access to the Force or limit the numbers in a group. If you need a rationalization, maybe the Force itself is trying to achieve a new balance after the purge, by connecting with more individuals than usual...

In my campaign I specifically asked the players to take the FSEx spec (and gave it for free at chargen) because it fits the overall theme of my campaign. But it is hardly in the foreground (at least so far). One PC has Enhance fully filled out, another is working on Sense and just took basic Move...hardly showstoppers, and this after 500XP+ earned.

I disagree. As Donovan said, the F&D careers are not necessarily Jedi careers. They include all types of Force users from Jedi and Sith to Baran Do Sages, Witches of Dathomir, Jensaaari, Fallanasee, Gand Findsmen, Shamans, etc. They also cover characters thatmay not even know that they're Force Sensitive, such as a mechanic with "uncanny" ability, a Detective who's "hunches" are a little "too" on point, a pilot with unbelievable reflexes, etc. These and more are all covered under the various Force User careers and Specializations. The book (and source books) even specifically state as much, giving examples and everything.

I still think that is dependent on the setting. Jedi were not the only force-sensitive types that were heavily hunted by the Sith and the Inquisitors.

But if the setting is such that some careers and specializations from F&D can make sense for the PCs, then if it were my game I would be inclined to allow that.

But it all depends on the setting.

depends on the game. But start characters with Force sensitivity are not very powerful, and even at 500 XP they might only get one specialization completed with a dabbling in some others

Really, I don't think it's a good idea to limit force sensitivity within itself. If someone wants to go for it, then go for it. However, I personally do not make the road to becoming a Jedi or whatever an easy road to bear. I actually even came up with a system to essentially "unlock" Jedi, and I don't really find it plausible that a charaster would start off on a sort of Jedi Knight style class. I limit the Jedi aspect, not the Force Sensitivity aspect.

As the Empire gathers agents of darkness to capture or destroy force wielding folk, I explain to those who seek interest in Force Sensitivity that while it's completely doabke, and available to everyone, it is definitely dangerous. The more force you show, the more likely people take notice. After some time, someone is bound to find you, and do their duty.

I also make it a bit of an xp dump to reach a state of Jedi-ish nature, though I do not limit the characters in their abilities. They can buy FSE and then head straight into whatever Force Powers they want (restrictions of Force Rating still applicable) and let them do it their own way for the most part. I never start them out with a lightsaber nor do I start them out with anything to guide their training. Using the stories laid out before them and the ever expanding politics, and so forth, the characters who truly wish to reach a sort of Jedi-hood, must find their way naturally!

I wouldn't limit the possibility of the characters beeing FS, if you think it is too powerfull for your game you can just limit the availibility of the Force Spec Trees by not allowing cross spec with other Force Specs (so a guardian could only spec within his 6 trees but not in the consular trees)

I used to do that, but than again, I've got a player who thinks his character concept is needed to have 2500 XP before it "works right" so I had to limit it that he won't start to dump everything into activate all available trees without making any progress... while other characters run him out by just stick to their career...

Remember: Your PC's are the EXCEPTION to the rule. Your PC's ARE the big awesome amazing heroes. Example: Chiss are a race we can pick. So far Thrawn is about the only Chiss around. But why should Chiss be allowed? Because the PC's ARE those exceptions scattered across the galaxy. You don't have to worry about 'other' Force Sensitives. You only have to worry about the few at your table.

In your campaign, your PC is the last Jedi, the princess warrior, and the sharpshooting smuggler.

Go with whatever suits the themes of your game best. Force users are pretty awesome but they are balanced by needing LOTS of XP to get really awesome. The space wizards will lag behind other characters who can spend their XP on skills, talents and Signature abilities.

Amen! Right now we're playing a 3 Jedi, one Mundane game and my Engineer is rocking the house. Am I being overshadowed? Not with my 3 or 4 Four Yellow skills and my freshly acquired Sig ability. Oh sure, they can MurderDeathKill stormtroopers far better than I, but that's a pretty limited skill set.

This is actually something I have been wrestling with. At first I was reluctant to let Force stuff in, not because I didn't want it in but because I wasn't sure whether it would unbalance the system (and also because I was still learning the rules and had not yet got round to learning the Force Power rules). I have since relaxed that rule and actually opened it up for everyone fully, if they want to learn the Force well as others have pointed out they are the Heroes, or in my game the Dodgy Thieving Bastards, though it did give them Plot stuff to do to unlock it initially. The powers are not gamebreaking, the most dangerous person in the party is the non-FS Klatooinian Heavy with his Auto-Fire still, which I know Auto-Fire is considered OP by some I have no problem with since he has spent and focused his character on that and so it only seems fair that is what he is good at while the others have specialities elsewhere.

I have however, been unsure whether to open up all Force Powers to the players or whether to restrict them to those in Edge and maybe Age. Part of it is being unsure whether the F&D stuff is more powerful, but also because I have been reluctant to include Morality in the game. Along with Obligation, it seems to be yet another thing to keep track of, and I like to keep my Edge game and players gray rather than being out and out evil as I fear some will end up with it (and I just never really liked the whole forced morality thing anyway), but some of the powers seem tied to it.

So, while hoping not to commandeer this thread at all, I want to ask if people find including Morality in their game good or bad, and whether lightsabers are truly overpowered (I dread the Wookiee finding one, or a lightsaber axe as he seems intent on...)

So, while hoping not to commandeer this thread at all, I want to ask if people find including Morality in their game good or bad, and whether lightsabers are truly overpowered (I dread the Wookiee finding one, or a lightsaber axe as he seems intent on...)

Personally, I've found Morality to work fairly well, as lets the Force use PC know that their actions can have personal consequences, but said consequences aren't nearly as strict as the dark side point systems from prior Star Wars RPGs; as long as the PC doesn't go overboard on Conflict-worthy acts (i.e. doesn't act like your typical D&D murder-hobo), then Morality shouldn't be too much of a drag. I will add that I do make use of a house-rule, and that Morality is only rolled at the end of the adventure as opposed to the end of the session. This adds a bit more weight to earning Conflict, and also prevents any of the PCs (even the ones acting like paladins) from skyrocketing up to LS Paragon.

As for lightsabers, what helps is that versions in FaD are not quite as powerful as the EotE/AoR versions, with the later being high-end relics. And while they do have the Breach quality, the damage isn't affected by Brawn or talents that affect Brawl or Melee attacks, since lightsabers use the Lightsaber skill, and thus far there's only been one talent that increases lightsaber damage (Falling Avalanche, which lets you suffer 2 strain to add your Brawn to damage), but it's been buried in the two specialization trees it's thus far shown up in. That and openly using a lightsaber during the Rebellion Era is going to eventually get you noticed by the Empire, with word reaching the Inquisitors not long after. For example, Kanan in the season 1 opener for Rebels openly outed himself as a Jedi to an ISB Agent, and a few episodes later he found himself squaring off (and losing more often than not) to the Grand Inquisitor, who remained a serious threat until the end of the season. Generally speaking, if a PC starts openly brandishing a lightsaber, they're going to get noticed and odds are the bad guys are going to direct more of their attacks at this obvious threat; the Jedi might be reduced to the status of myths and legends by the Rebellion Era thanks to Imperial propaganda, but the stories are still out there...

Plus, it's not like obtaining a lightsaber crystal has to be easy, or even be a given thing. I'm playing in a TFA-era game, and we're pretty much at Knight Level, and there's no indication my Shien Expert is going to have anything more than just a training emitter for his lightsaber anytime in the future, immediate or otherwise. It's a Skype game and the GM is rarely online, so I can't ask if he's got something planned, or if he's too worried that allowing a proper lightsaber will wind up breaking his game since it'd push my PC into being the top damage-dealer by a huge margin; most of the group has blaster pistols, apart from a Gungan infiltrator that insists on using a vibroknife.

So, while hoping not to commandeer this thread at all, I want to ask if people find including Morality in their game good or bad, and whether lightsabers are truly overpowered (I dread the Wookiee finding one, or a lightsaber axe as he seems intent on...)

Personally, I've found Morality to work fairly well, as lets the Force use PC know that their actions can have personal consequences, but said consequences aren't nearly as strict as the dark side point systems from prior Star Wars RPGs; as long as the PC doesn't go overboard on Conflict-worthy acts (i.e. doesn't act like your typical D&D murder-hobo), then Morality shouldn't be too much of a drag. I will add that I do make use of a house-rule, and that Morality is only rolled at the end of the adventure as opposed to the end of the session. This adds a bit more weight to earning Conflict, and also prevents any of the PCs (even the ones acting like paladins) from skyrocketing up to LS Paragon.

As for lightsabers, what helps is that versions in FaD are not quite as powerful as the EotE/AoR versions, with the later being high-end relics. And while they do have the Breach quality, the damage isn't affected by Brawn or talents that affect Brawl or Melee attacks, since lightsabers use the Lightsaber skill, and thus far there's only been one talent that increases lightsaber damage (Falling Avalanche, which lets you suffer 2 strain to add your Brawn to damage), but it's been buried in the two specialization trees it's thus far shown up in. That and openly using a lightsaber during the Rebellion Era is going to eventually get you noticed by the Empire, with word reaching the Inquisitors not long after. For example, Kanan in the season 1 opener for Rebels openly outed himself as a Jedi to an ISB Agent, and a few episodes later he found himself squaring off (and losing more often than not) to the Grand Inquisitor, who remained a serious threat until the end of the season. Generally speaking, if a PC starts openly brandishing a lightsaber, they're going to get noticed and odds are the bad guys are going to direct more of their attacks at this obvious threat; the Jedi might be reduced to the status of myths and legends by the Rebellion Era thanks to Imperial propaganda, but the stories are still out there...

Plus, it's not like obtaining a lightsaber crystal has to be easy, or even be a given thing. I'm playing in a TFA-era game, and we're pretty much at Knight Level, and there's no indication my Shien Expert is going to have anything more than just a training emitter for his lightsaber anytime in the future, immediate or otherwise. It's a Skype game and the GM is rarely online, so I can't ask if he's got something planned, or if he's too worried that allowing a proper lightsaber will wind up breaking his game since it'd push my PC into being the top damage-dealer by a huge margin; most of the group has blaster pistols, apart from a Gungan infiltrator that insists on using a vibroknife.

Cheers, that helps a lot! Will also start bringing in Morality for my FSes then if that's the case. The wookiee in my group was insisting on using blaster knuckles himself, until he acquired a vibro-axe (through the chest) and now wants a lightsaber version, the lack of melee talents working with them might change his mind. Then again, it might not, he is playing a wookiee after all...

The weaker lightsaber version is definitely the way I plan to go, and making a long questline out of it is probably something my players would want anyway. And I do want to start trying out the Inquisitor build rules...

I want to ask if people find including Morality in their game good or bad

One Penguin's opinion? The Morality game mechanic sucks.

I want to ask if people find including Morality in their game good or bad

One Penguin's opinion? The Morality game mechanic sucks.

Hmm, the points raised there are actually the concerns I had about bringing it in, so my intentions to bring it into my game has come to a screeching halt. Eldath's comment that you can run F&D itself without the Morality mechanic fine actually reassures me that sticking with Obligation should be fine in this case.

I've spent three years ignoring the numbers for Obligation, Duty and Morality (in that order) and simply using them as role-playing hooks.

The game actually runs better when I'm not micromanaging alignment issues or stat levels like some JRPG.

I've spent three years ignoring the numbers for Obligation, Duty and Morality (in that order) and simply using them as role-playing hooks.

The game actually runs better when I'm not micromanaging alignment issues or stat levels like some JRPG.

The Duty seems to be the only one that everyone at the table actively chases. We played HERO for years and years, where your disads are static and unchanging, and this view seems to have carried over to Obligation. Instead of being something fluid and malleable, once you get it, you're stuck with it - and taking on new obligation is something to be avoided at all costs. And of course I just stated my opinion on Morality.

So yeah, of the three mechanics, we only really use Duty RAW.

Oh, I use them all... I just don't put numbers on them. It's helpful to know that a PC owes money to a criminal cartel, or works for Internal Affairs spying on his friends or something... but that's just part of the story, not something that needs a number attached to it. It feels very much a videogame, JRPG thing to assign numbers to character history or moods or relationships, not something I am used to at all.

And Morality is very much a part of our F&D game, but I deliberately don't use numbers as we are aiming to fully explore a characters positive and negative traits. Also, one of my players pointed out that a slow descent or ascent doesn't feel very Star Wars-y, when in the games and movies it's an instant 'fall to the Darkside' and forgiveness is equally instantaneous and all the bad stuff is forgotten. So that's how we do it, only it's not so much measuring good and evil, but positive and 'negative' traits.

I'd allow a FSE onto our ship... then I'd inform the nearest BH Guild and ask to take a 20% cut coz the BH's would be doing all the shooting