Assume I'm using "Mortar" from Armored Onslaught in the Hoth expansion:

"choose a space within 3 spaces and roll 1 red die. Each figure and object on or adjacent to that space suffers [damage] equal to the [damage] results".

Let's say I have this setup, where each number is a square on the board:

[ 1 ] | [ 2 ]

[ 3 ] | [ 4 ]

The door door runs vertically between 1&2 and 3&4.

Assume a mortar is thrown onto space #3 and there is a characters on space #4.

If the mortar does *not* blow up the door, it seems pretty clear that the mortar will not affect anything on space #4 because the door blocks adjacency. However, if the mortar does destroy the door, does that mortar now deal damage to everything on spaces #2 and #4? Or is to 'too late' since those spaces wouldn't be targeting initially?

I see a ruling for 'blast':

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/201851-blast-targeting-doors/

That indicates that the blast *does* affect things other side of the door if the door is destroyed, but I was curious if that same reasoning works for the mortar. I ask because the timing on 'blast' indicates it always happens after damage is dealt, whereas mortar seems to happen to all tiles simultaneously.

Thanks in advance!

Blast is performed after the attack resolves. The target is defeated/destroyed during step 7 of the attack, so it is no longer there when Blast is performed. In the case of a door, the door is no longer there to block adjacency, and all spaces adjacent to the targeted space of the attack receive damage from Blast in the order of your choosing.

For Mortar you check for each object and figure if it is adjacent to the target space to suffer damage, so if you choose to check the door first and it is destroyed due to receiving damage, the door is no longer there to block adjacency when you check the adjacency of the other objects and figures.

In effect, there is (almost) nothing simultaneous in Imperial Assault (except when rolling attack and defense dice). Each ability is performed in order, and parts of abilities can trigger other abilities, for example Parting Shot or Close Quarters. Also, generally there is no memory needed in Imperial Assault. (And when there is, it is explicitly written or uses tokens to remember things.)

There is no ruling for Mortar that I know of, just my understanding of the rules and how things work. However, it is also thematic.

I just got the following response from Paul Winchester from FFG:

Hi Tom,

Mortar would not affect figures behind the door, even if it is destroyed. The Blast ruling deals with if the door is the target of an attack that then triggers Blast, since the damage from an attack is dealt before blast resolves. Mortar resolves all at once.

Thanks!

Paul Winchester

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

[email protected]

Interesting that "mortar resolves all at once". I suppose that means that it applies all of the damage simultaneously, and then perhaps the Imperial Player then picks the order in which order the damage gets resolved in (choosing who dies first, second, etc)?

Yeah, I disagree about resolving all at once (or apply damage simultaneously) with the justification I used. Applying damage from Mortar and Blast are exactly analogous. Each damage must be applied in some order.

I think Paul is referring to a rule where the door is destroyed in the attack, so Blast can get through to the other side and ignoring that each damage from Blast/Mortar must be resolved sequentially to avoid timing issues with Parting Shot etc. abilities.

(And in a way answering a slightly different question than was asked.

Or alternatively saying that what is adjacent is 'fixed' at the start of the ability. Mortar is still analogous to Blast, and a combination of a figure being defeated and Forward Vengeance or Executor could get a figure out of the Blast zone -- although only if the attacker applies the damage in an unfavorable order. If adjacency is fixed at the start, a figure no longer adjacent would suffer damage by having been adjacent before, but you would introduce memory effects to the game, which is bad, very bad.)

I guess one way to argue is that blast is resolved after the door (target) is dead, so it still applies

Precise wording of mortar:

Special: Choose a space within 3 spaces and roll 1 red die. Each figure and object on or adjacent to that space suffers damage equal to the damage results

I guess the difference here is between "Blast is resolved last" vs. "Mortar checks damage all at once". So Mortar would destroy doors but that's it. Also you're not really targeting a figure in Mortar (you're targeting a space)

I can see where Paul's coming from

Blast and mortar basically do the same thing. The argument with blast is if the door is destroyed during the attack, then blast will hit the other side. The door being destroyee during blast isn't an issue because either it was the target and can't be damaged by blast, or it was adjacent to the target and if destroyed during blast, the other side would be too far away.

For mortar, even if the door is destroyed, the squares on the other side weren't adjacent when it was used, so they're not affected.

But I can see the problem. In blast or mortar, do you apply damage immediately simultaneously, or is there an order that can be decided. Does parting shot interrupt blast, or only occur when all the blast damage has been applied? If Verena is triggered by a defeated adjacent enemy, does she interrupt to move or attack, or wait until all the damage has been dealt. What if she moves into or out of the blast radius DURING blast (rather than during the attack leading to blast)?

Attacks target figures or objects, but Mortar and Blast both have a target space. And the rest of their wordings are identical. (When you take into account that objects and figures on the same space are adjacent for the purposes of Blast and Cleave.)

You can't apply all damage at once, because once you start applying damage to one target, abilities start to trigger for various reasons (has suffered damage equal to Health). It becomes a mess of timing if you first apply all damage and only then start to check things. No other ability in the game works like that. And if you apply all and check separately, then you in effect are applying the damage in some order.

(Thematically, why would a door which is destroyed by Blast or Mortar protect figures or objects that are now adjacent to the target space? This is such a corner case that I can live with the ruling, but it may make other interactions suspect while they were clear before.)

Thematically it would, I think. Blast from an explosion is always in direction of least resistance. Even if the door is destroyed, the damage would be contained on one side. So I guess in the case of mortar, you calculate the squares affected and apply to figures in those squares only?

Question... The ability says "figures on or adjacent", does that mean multiple figures in the same spaces get affected? For example a figure is defeated by mortar, and Verena moves into that space, will she take damage too?

You can indeed apply all the damage all at once. If there is a conflict between different abilities that trigger because of that damage, then you go to the conflict rules to determine the order that you resolve those ancillary effects/abilities. But ultimately both blast and the mortar are going to apply their AOE damage to all eligible targets at the same time.

This does mean that Mortar would not affect any figure on the opposite side of the door, even if the door is destroyed by the mortar's damage. The only reason Blast has any difference is solely because blast is applied after the attack is resolved - thus if the attack destroys the door, the door is no longer there for it to block the effects of blast. Essentially in that case blast is still applying to all eligible targets at once.

That's about the take on how to interpret and consolidate the ruling. It's not really contradicting how things are done, but fixates a few things. (More in the last point.)

The ability (Mortar or Blast) triggers for all eligible targets at once, but exactly due to the timing resolution rules you're going to apply its effects one figure and object at a time, triggering possible other abilities while doing so and performing the triggered abilities as interrupts.

The targets of Mortar and Blast have been decided, so even if a figure moves away or into or a door gets destroyed, the affected figures and objects are not re-evaluated. So, for example an elite Royal Guard moving away by the help of Forward Vengeance will still suffer damage, and Verena moving into range will not. (Of course the first example only happens if the damage is applied in a favorable order.)

I think you are missing the point tho. The damage is applied simultaneously to all the affected figures. If that damage triggers the death of multiple figures, and those deaths have different abilities to trigger, that is when you resolve those effects in the order determined by the conflict rules. The conflict rules do not apply for applying the damage, rather they apply to the abilities that trigger off of that damage. Its only a single timing window for that damage (albeit it can convert to multiple nested windows if the triggered abilities trigger other effects themselves).

So all the figures recieve the damage. If players have abilities to trigger based on receipt of that damage or death of those figures, then they declare the triggered ability. If multiple of those abilities trigger at the same time, you go to the conflict rules to figure out which ability to trigger first. Its not resolved one figure at a time. All the affected figures have the damage on them at the same time in the same window, its the triggered responses that get resolved sequentially.

Hmm, you have a point there.

It will be physically demanding to perform these "at the same time" requirements.