Does the Last Man Standing Win?

By tylorlilley, in Talisman Rules Questions

We always played with the rule that the last man standing wins, but since we started adding in Alternate Endings to our games, we began to question whether this was ALWAYS the case or only the case with the base ending... to my surprised I was unable to find anywhere in the base game rule book that described this simple rule of what to do if only one player is left in the game!

The thing is, while it was not very common to have the player at the Crown of Command be killed while another player was not at the Crown of Command using only the base game ending, it was still possible, so I was surprised to not see that case covered in the rule book (unless I missed it!) But with these Alternate endings like Demon Lord and Eagle King we have had players die at the Crown of Command several times. My question is, if there is only one other player left remaining after that (due to the perma-death being activated once any player has reached the Crown), does that player win? Or does that player still need to travel all the way to the Crown of Command, and possibly even lose to the Eagle King or Demon Lord, creating an ending where no player wins and everybody loses? It seemed awkward to have to have multiple people sit and watch as one player goes about playing the game on his own for what could be quite some time just to try to defeat the Ending, but like I said, I saw nowhere in the rule book that outright states the last player standing wins.

So have we been playing this wrong? Please point us in the right direction!

Thanks!

Edited by tylorlilley

Technically, I think if an Alternate Ending says specifically that the last player alive wins, then that is the case. Otherwise, a last player standing will still have to travel to the CoC and complete the ending as written to claim victory.

But, I don't think many people play it like this. It's probably best for most gaming groups to just call it if only 1 person is alive.

I believe in 2nd edition Talisman you could win by killing people off. But I think in 4th edition, people can get a new character when they die. At least that's how we play. So maybe you are going by the 2nd edition rules.

I know people can get a new character when they die, we play this way as well. But usually once a player has reached the Crown of Command any player who dies does not come back until there is only one left, which is the issue we are discussing here.

I got curious as to how the digital edition handles this and played a rigged game against myself to find out. Turns out, it does it yet another way that hasn't been discussed yet. It doesn't seem to turn on the permanent death once a player has reached the crown if the ending is something like the Eagle King. I made it to the Eagle King, lost, and then ran around until one of us died, and it still re-spawned that player with a new character next turn. So it seems to think that the correct ruling here is that the alternate ending ALSO overrides the permanent death activation that happens with the original ending, unless otherwise stated. This is very strange to me because the alternate ending card for the original Crown of Command ending makes no mention of the "whenever a character dies he no longer respawns with a new character next turn" rule, and this rule is definitely not listed as part of the ending in the main game rulebook, it is listed under the "Losing All Lives" section like a hard and fast rule:

Any character who loses all of his lives is immediately killed. All the character’s Objects, Magic Objects, Followers, and gold are placed on the space where the character was killed. All the character’s Strength and Craft counters and fate tokens are returned to their stockpiles. The character’s Spell Cards are placed on the Spell Card discard pile. Other cards (including the character’s trophies) and counters are placed in the appropriate stock or discard piles. The character card and character figure are removed from the game. The dead character’s player may start again, on his next turn, with a new character drawn at random from the unused character cards, following steps 5–10 from the “Game Setup” section (see page 4). Players may start new characters if, and only if, no character has yet reached the Crown of Command during the game. If any character has reached the Crown of Command, a player whose character is killed is out of the game.

The Frostmarch rulebook also mentions this as one of the rules that still applies even when playing with alternate endings, which also seems to imply that the Digital Edition is just wrong:

Alternative Ending Cards replace the base game’s victory conditions, offering players new ways to win the game. When using the Alternative Ending Cards, characters on the Crown of Command must encounter the Alternative Ending Card and follow the rules printed on the card – they cannot cast the Command Spell or encounter other characters on the Crown of Command unless the Alternative Ending Card specifically states otherwise. All other rules regarding the Inner Region still apply when playing with Alternative Ending Cards:

• None of the creatures in the Inner Region (nor any of the Alternative Ending Cards) can be affected by any Spell. They also cannot be evaded.

• Characters on the Crown of Command cannot move and must remain on that space unless the Alternative Ending Card specifically states otherwise.

• Once any character has reached the Crown of Command, any character who is killed automatically loses the game.

The rules seem very clear about this to me, so i wonder why the Digital Edition was implemented the way it was. Maybe because they too thought it would be silly to have one single player left running around while everyone else watched? Who knows.

Some, but not all Alternate Endings, including the Original Ending (Crown of Command) do not allow healing, and as seen by your own example new characters after death. I myself, played a game a couple months back, not realizing this and didn't allow healing once someone arrived at the Alternate Ending, but failed to remember that is not true with all Endings, just some.

I'm sorry, but I don't think this is correct. I have never heard that the original or any other ending doesn't allow healing after a player reaches the crown. Only that if they die, they don't come back with a new character. Can you please point out where it says that in the rules, because I've just checked again and I don't see it. Thanks!

Edited by tylorlilley

One example:

http://www.talismanwiki.com/Crown_and_Sceptre

Once a character reaches the Crown of Command, characters cannot heal or gain life for the rest of the game. If all other characters are killed, the character on the Crown wins the game!

One example:

http://www.talismanwiki.com/Crown_and_Sceptre

Once a character reaches the Crown of Command, characters cannot heal or gain life for the rest of the game. If all other characters are killed, the character on the Crown wins the game!

So this alt ending says you can't heal when someone is on CoC. That pretty much dictates that normally you can heal.

One example:

http://www.talismanwiki.com/Crown_and_Sceptre

Once a character reaches the Crown of Command, characters cannot heal or gain life for the rest of the game. If all other characters are killed, the character on the Crown wins the game!

So this alt ending says you can't heal when someone is on CoC. That pretty much dictates that normally you can heal.

I would agree with this interpretation, that this rule is only in effect for this particular ending. Nothing on the original ending card or the original rule book mentions not being able to heal once the Crown of Command has been reached, to my knowledge.

I would agree with this interpretation, that this rule is only in effect for this particular ending. Nothing on the original ending card or the original rule book mentions not being able to heal once the Crown of Command has been reached, to my knowledge.

There's no such thing as "original ending card" unless you mean a page from rulebook or default ending card from Cataclysm.

That is correct, just some endings.

I would agree with this interpretation, that this rule is only in effect for this particular ending. Nothing on the original ending card or the original rule book mentions not being able to heal once the Crown of Command has been reached, to my knowledge.

There's no such thing as "original ending card" unless you mean a page from rulebook or default ending card from Cataclysm.

Yes there is. I referenced it earlier in the thread, and you can find it on the Talisman FFG Website under Player Resources ( here ). It is also what the Digital Edition uses when the original ending is chosen.

Edited by tylorlilley

I would agree with this interpretation, that this rule is only in effect for this particular ending. Nothing on the original ending card or the original rule book mentions not being able to heal once the Crown of Command has been reached, to my knowledge.

There's no such thing as "original ending card" unless you mean a page from rulebook or default ending card from Cataclysm.

Actually there IS an "original ending card" it is found here:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/67054/talisman-revised-4th-edition-crown-command

ok, sure why not.