Serissu (20)
Juke (2)
Tractor Beam (1)
Hull Upgrade (3)
"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Laetin A'shera (18)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Hull Upgrade (3)
"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Cartel Spacer (14)
"Mangler" Cannon (4)
"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Cartel Spacer (14)
"Mangler" Cannon (4)
"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Who to shoot? Tie Advance health Seresu with an evade token? HLC Laetn? or the mangler scyks?

But people who actually know what they're doing, on the other hand...

Your childish 90's netlisting is evil and WAAC boo hoo rant aside, people who 'actually know what they're doing' have long ago realized that there are some ships/upgrades in this game that just aren't worth it from a purely mechanical standpoint, either because other ships do what they do better, or because what those ships do well is just not viable in game at a given point.

I don't understand the blind hatred towards net list, in any game with a luck based variable people are inevitably going to crunch the numbers to reduce that variable. Yes, they do occasionally miss something that would otherwise work due to herd mentality. I believe that's the exception, not the rule. Some things are just rendered inferior by something that full fills the same exact role, but better.

I don't really have a problem with "netlisting" people. What I dislike is the herd mentality that many people take. The idea that the "experts" out there have already tried out all the ships and it's "a clear fact" that no one uses certain ships at the high tables and they are therefore bad. My perfect example is the Tie Defender. Everyone ruled it out. Biophysical practiced at home on his own with them against all the meta lists. He "got gud". Biophysical took them to major events and did very well. He didn't outright win, but he was at the top tables. Oh, but that's just some freak of nature and just one guy. It took a while, but a few other people started to take Tie Defenders to major events and did well with them, too. I see it that maybe it wasn't as bad a ship as people said. That it took some time to learn it and practice with it against the meta. Once you figured it out, you could do well with it.

Part of being good is knowing your own list and how to fly it. I think learning how to fly ships in your list goes a long way to being good with a ship. Here's another example:

The Starviper was ruled out as well. I did practice with it and talked to some other guys who played with it. At the time, most of us die hards used Xizor and 5 Z-95's. There were a few guys in the UK that ended up placing in the Top 4 at major events with the Xizor. It wasn't the US and didn't get much attention, but it happened. I took it to Regionals and if my dice hadn't just gone so dang cold in the last game, I would've placed in Top 16. Even my opponent said he almost felt bad for me.

I believe that not enough people really try ships out enough before they decry it Dead On Arrival. I think there are enough examples of players out there that have done incredibly well with crazy ships. Aren't the guys at Spanish Nationals always doing odd stuff at the high tables? Sometimes a specific ship speaks to a player in a way that they can fly it better than others. They just get it. With practice against the big lists and good list building, they can make a ship shine well in their specific list. What I dislike is the idea that some ships are listed as bad and should never be taken. I think that sometimes it's just a matter of the right person using it in the right list (with a lot of practice).

Just as a side point, there are places for cheap, generic ships that fill a role in a list. Take a blocking Z-95. Look at a TLT Y-wing. These guys are no glamour or considered "amazing", but they fill a role in a list for other ships to flesh out. The Ion Heavy Scyk can easily fit into this role. It's 19 pts for a ship that isn't as horrible at the mathwing as it used to be. It fires late in the turn at R 1-3 with 3 red dice to Ionize someone. He's not the high priority target most of the time. He can really help out a list. It's a generic support ship. This type of a ship can be in a list that makes it to the top tables. I think people should consider this aspect when they say they will never see it at the top tables.

=============

OK...enough about debating that stuff.

As I said above, I think the 19 pt PS 2 Ion Cannon Heavy Scyk is a great ship to throw into many lists.

As for Serrisu, I do agree that she works the opposite of Howlrunner. Howlrunner works best with more allies near her shooting. Serrisu works when more enemy are shooting those around her. I want to consider her a support ship, to be honest. You don't really want to load her up with too much as she doesn't work on herself. She just becomes the target. Put her in a list with some high value targets that she wants to support. The free re-roll on green dice is pretty good as we know green dice suck. Also, if you have someone that abuses the action sequences and often has a Focus token to spend for defense, then it's a good deal. We all know the green die sucks. There aren't that many successes. There are too many blanks. Being able to re-roll a blank and hope you get a Evade or a Focus is good enough, though, as it's 5/8's of a die. THAT is worth it.

Personally, I would go with only enough stuff to make her cheap. I see:

Serissu (20)

Tractor Beam (1)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Total: 23

That's 23 pts for a ship that doesn't have too hard a time staying in R1 of a specific ship.

She has room for an EPT. Personally, I would either go with Attani Mindlink, VI, or Juke. Mindlink we all know about and it requires someone else with Mindlink, as well. Let me think about Juke, though. I think it works in this particular role very well.

Evade action is good on Serrisu all the time as she wants to be defensive, just in case someone is shooting at her instead of the high value target she is protecting. PS 8 is pretty good and there are only a few ships that are higher than her in the whole game. She fires before many ships. She can strip their tokens with 3 red dice and the thread of a Tractor Beam. Yes, Stealth Soontir will be able to avoid that, but what about other ships? They might have to spend that Focus token that they have. Even just forcing them to spend that token is worth it for her. If she does hit, she gives other ships a -1 green die for the target. Possibly even gets to move someone into a better position. She gets to keep her Evade token for defense.

Oh, but there are lot's of PS 9 aces or PS 8 that have initiative in the game! What about them? Well...maybe they already spent their Focus token already! It's quite possible that they just spent their juice to really put the hurt on someone.

Veteran Instincts is also a good option for Serrisu. She moves after everyone else. She won't bump or give away the position of the other ship she's trying to protect. She can try to maneuver around someone that is trying to arc dodge the person you are protecting. She fires before everyone. She can strip tokens or get that Tractor Beam token on someone before anyone fires.

It is a crying shame that Laetin doesn't have an EPT. He would be freakin' amazing and we would've seen him on the tables. He probably would be in that "broken" category of the top tables.

That's a fair point, some people do just write a ship off completely because of common opinion. I think some of this is is because in any wargame no one wants to waste money on a dust collector. This ain't as bad in X-wing seeing as it's rather cheap compared to alternate games, plus there's vassal, but it's still a factor. In the case of top tier competitive list I've noticed a trend of list with high predictability. Like your listed example of a Xizor list, it's not that it can't compete with against net list with just average rolls, it's that one string of badluck can doom it. Most competitive list are a bit less prone to this due to token stacking, ridiculous mobility, high health, or the ever present Palpatine. TLT has outstanding damage because it's consistent. You're not gonna get any crazy 3-4 damage turns, but you'll rarely do less then 1 or 2 damage.

In my own case I just look at what I want the ship to do and what competition it has in the same price range. On a flip of the coin as you don't care for when someone blindly writes off a ship I think there is also a case for not blindly falling in love with it either. As I broke down in a previous post the base Scyk compared to other options at the same price range is still rather lacking. For a Scyk to be useful in a list over other options you need it to really be able to capitalize on the special effects of the cannons. This is not improbable, we have ships and upgrades that capitalize on this such as Ketsu and Dace. But if you're not using these options then how useful is the effect on its own merit? How often would you rather have the tractor effect then a hit or crit? I'm sure it has its moments but how often does it come up?

Obviously this would also boil down to what your regular opposition looks like, but to me this just makes it a little too niche. We don't have side boards in X-wing so IMO you need something that will reliably be useful for every match. By this logic the unique pilots would need to have powerful enough effects to make up for the deficiency of the platform. Laetin would be a great little ship if we could put a EPT on it to gain some action efficiency, but without that option the ship is still prone to fickle green dice and thus you may end up paying a tax for something that never gets used. My argument against Serissu remains the same, what are you giving up to use her? She's a 3 point tax over a generic model, that means you should be comparing her effect to what else you could be getting for that 3 points. Will you use her ability more then something like Dengar or Predator?

That's the crutch of it. If i put her with 2 wing mates how often will she activate in an average game? She can't keep up with a Ace like Fenn, so no promises she'll ever proc on him. You could roll her with a YV-666 or G1-A, but she lacks the health to survive a joust so you're likely to lose her in the initial engagement thus not gaining any value on the tax you payed for her ability. Saying she is comparable to Biggs is being disingenuous. Biggs will survive multiple shots even with the worse of luck, Serissu is reliant on luck. Biggs also dosen't allow your opponent a choice, that's a rather key difference. At the end of the day what you're paying for is the possibility of rerolling a single green die, the root of the argument is if that's worth 3 points and a inefficient ship.

As I said before it might be worth it if you're planning to run cheap independent ships and making the center of the map a furball. Under such a situation the opponent may have a difficult time focusing any one ship down at a time maximizing your chances to use the ability. Obviously you wouldn't run it in formation, but swarms don't all need to be ran the same way as a Howlrunner block. Even then I'm not sure if the ship would be worth bothering with over another ship with better stats and/or dial.

If FFG is still feeling FAQ happy can we at least agree that Serissu should be effected by her own ability and Laetin should get a EPT?

Jousting with Serissu? That's the point when your all thought is falling. Knowing a ship is necessary to bring her into a competitive way.

If you joust with Serissu, you are doing it just because the joust will be end with a victory, or you are doing something wrong.

Scyks cannon carriers are snipers. Mobile snipers, as the Inquisitor is. They don't joust, they stay far from the engagement, shooting at R3 a bring the +1ag all the time. 1 bank+barrel roll helps a lot, and a 4 red dice ship for 23 points it's amazing.

"how much time you will trigger their's value in the game?" Many times! There's a lot of ships with 1-2 agility in the game, and 3-4 attack dice will hit those targets nearly all the time (that's why TLT is great). So Serissu will trigger her Tractor beam all the time, Scyk will hit nearly all the time etc.

About Serissu, I don't care about use her ability much of the time, that's doesn't mean that a ship is useless. A lot of players doesn't understand the 3D of this game. They play it as playing Magic the gathering: they see the abilites, the rules, finding the combo, and then they forgot how importat are things like maneuvering, keep range 3, bump, engage in different angles, priorities, baits etc.

If you are shooting down Serissu, that's how she works. It's fine to me. If you are not,you are shooting to anyone with 1 agi reroll: still fine to me.

Even by herself, ignoring her bility, Serissu is an amazing sniper ace (and this era of BMST, PTL on few hulls ships is no more mandatory). Have you ever tried Serissu HLC Juke? Just 31 points for a solid Ace IF you know hot to fly her. Otherwise she will sucks.

28 with Mangler, 24 with tractor beam (!).

She is so cheap for her value. Don't care about her ability, is just something added like Bossk ability. You don't play over it but if it happens, is nice to see it. Serissu can accommpany a FennRau, OldTeroch etc just for the first engagement (she can bring agi reroll to OR 'get focused instead of' those ace's, even at range 2...and we know how much Fenn is suffering at R2).

Manarro-Fen-Serissu is a pretty competitve list that can works. If you run her with Tractor beam in this scenario, you can bring her VI-adaptability. Otherwise, just bring her a lot of punch with long range HLC.

There's a lot of ways to play new Scyks, but Knowing how to move those little mates is needed to bring out their's value.

@ Inquisitor - You honestly think Serr would be op if her ability effected her but not Laetin with a EPT? For 31 points you would have a 4 Red(HLC), 4-5 Green(SD, Range bonus), 4 Health, constantly focused(ML), small based ship with a decent dial and BR. It would be kinda like having a Mini-Phantom that didn't need to decloak to shoot and is harder to hit with concentrated fire. Laetin would be top tier over night with a EPT. That hardly seems as bad as one rerolled green every time I shoot Serr. Lol. I suppose you could kinda do this now with Manaroo, but you wouldn't have much left over for anything else if you take her and if they only focus Laetin his defenses will eventually fail.

@ Cerve - You're falling into the same logical fallacy I've already addressed. Yes maneuvering, range, bumping, ect, ect, is all important. But that comes down to player skill, a good player could trounce a bad with just about any combination of ships. When facing a opponent with a similar skill level it comes down to the efficiency of the list and luck of the die, and you can only control one of those. Comparing a cannon Syck to the Inquisitor is ridiculous. Tell me, what tools does the Inquisitor have that helps him stay out of harms way? First, he has both boost and barrel roll native to his dial allowing him to arc dodge with PTL. Second he has a speed 4 green. Third he can take AT giving him a free evade at R3. Fourth he has a title that gives him yet another free evade for target locking. Fifth he has a stronger dial. Sixth he's PS 9 allowing him to shoot and move with the big boys.

Your Serr build came in at the same price as your average Inquisitor build. What does she have to compensate for all the advantages Inquisitor has over her? The 1 extra attack? He can get a focus, TL, and evade in one round, you're forced to pick one. It should be obvious but 3 red die with a focus and TL have better averages then 4 naked red die. Her ability? If you're hanging back and sniping what are the chances you'll use it? Let's assume it gets changed to affect her. What's more useful. A reroll on a single green die, or regularly getting free evade tokens from R3 shots? This is my point, she cost the same as an actually good ace, but is purely (statistically speaking) worse. I understand that we're talking about ships from different factions but you're the one that made the comparison. If you have a ship that is trying to full fill the same exact role at the same exact cost that is just worse by a significant margin then I hope the rest of your list is amazeballs to make up for it. Playing this way is needlessly handicapping your self, can you win? Sure. But against foes with equal skill you're gonna lose more then you win.

Once again to objectively find the value of any given ship you can simply compare it to what other options you have in the same range. Your kitted out Serr would run me the same as a upgraded Talonbane, 4-Lom, Zuckuss, or Pablo to name a few. All these ships have a more consistent performance, a more powerful ability, and cost the same or just under what a kitted out Serr would cost me. How do you justify her use over any of those options?

Your tractor build is a bit harder to make a comparison, the closest I can think of is a generic Misthunter with either Zuckuss or 4-Lom at the same 25 points. My build would be more likely to hit due to the awesome sauce that is 4-Lom or Zuckuss. My build would also be less manoeuvrable for the same reason, would have the added 2 health and not care about obstacles as much thanks to collision detector though. Another point is that the Lancer can simply take a 3 point title and actually do damage and tractor someone.

A better argument is how do you justify a 4th of your list on a ship that will rarely if ever actually deal damage in your game. A tractor beam is situationally useful, damage is always good, and with 2 unmodified red die you're not likely to hurt any of the hyper defensive ships we commonly see populating list.

Do you boys and girls feel this is now viable build for its points?

M3-A Interceptor: Cartel Spacer (14)

Hull Upgrade (3)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (2)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Problem I find is that it has very limited way to modify its attack dice.

@ Inquisitor - You honestly think Serr would be op if her ability effected her but not Laetin with a EPT? For 31 points you would have a 4 Red(HLC), 4-5 Green(SD, Range bonus), 4 Health, constantly focused(ML), small based ship with a decent dial and BR. It would be kinda like having a Mini-Phantom that didn't need to decloak to shoot and is harder to hit with concentrated fire. Laetin would be top tier over night with a EPT. That hardly seems as bad as one rerolled green every time I shoot Serr. Lol. I suppose you could kinda do this now with Manaroo, but you wouldn't have much left over for anything else if you take her and if they only focus Laetin his defenses will eventually fail.

@ Cerve - You're falling into the same logical fallacy I've already addressed. Yes maneuvering, range, bumping, ect, ect, is all important. But that comes down to player skill, a good player could trounce a bad with just about any combination of ships. When facing a opponent with a similar skill level it comes down to the efficiency of the list and luck of the die, and you can only control one of those. Comparing a cannon Syck to the Inquisitor is ridiculous. Tell me, what tools does the Inquisitor have that helps him stay out of harms way? First, he has both boost and barrel roll native to his dial allowing him to arc dodge with PTL. Second he has a speed 4 green. Third he can take AT giving him a free evade at R3. Fourth he has a title that gives him yet another free evade for target locking. Fifth he has a stronger dial. Sixth he's PS 9 allowing him to shoot and move with the big boys.

Your Serr build came in at the same price as your average Inquisitor build. What does she have to compensate for all the advantages Inquisitor has over her? The 1 extra attack? He can get a focus, TL, and evade in one round, you're forced to pick one. It should be obvious but 3 red die with a focus and TL have better averages then 4 naked red die. Her ability? If you're hanging back and sniping what are the chances you'll use it? Let's assume it gets changed to affect her. What's more useful. A reroll on a single green die, or regularly getting free evade tokens from R3 shots? This is my point, she cost the same as an actually good ace, but is purely (statistically speaking) worse. I understand that we're talking about ships from different factions but you're the one that made the comparison. If you have a ship that is trying to full fill the same exact role at the same exact cost that is just worse by a significant margin then I hope the rest of your list is amazeballs to make up for it. Playing this way is needlessly handicapping your self, can you win? Sure. But against foes with equal skill you're gonna lose more then you win.

Once again to objectively find the value of any given ship you can simply compare it to what other options you have in the same range. Your kitted out Serr would run me the same as a upgraded Talonbane, 4-Lom, Zuckuss, or Pablo to name a few. All these ships have a more consistent performance, a more powerful ability, and cost the same or just under what a kitted out Serr would cost me. How do you justify her use over any of those options?

Your tractor build is a bit harder to make a comparison, the closest I can think of is a generic Misthunter with either Zuckuss or 4-Lom at the same 25 points. My build would be more likely to hit due to the awesome sauce that is 4-Lom or Zuckuss. My build would also be less manoeuvrable for the same reason, would have the added 2 health and not care about obstacles as much thanks to collision detector though. Another point is that the Lancer can simply take a 3 point title and actually do damage and tractor someone.

A better argument is how do you justify a 4th of your list on a ship that will rarely if ever actually deal damage in your game. A tractor beam is situationally useful, damage is always good, and with 2 unmodified red die you're not likely to hurt any of the hyper defensive ships we commonly see populating list.

Comparise two ships of two different factions is just silly and useless

That's all, you don't get my point. Is fine.

"When another friendly ship at Range 1 is defending, he may reroll 1 defense dice." she needs to be in the middle of a mini swarm to use her ability (so every one can re roll those greens)

Not really. What matters is the amount of incoming fire, not the amount of ships in the bubble.

A better use is for her to fly wing for a high value asset - something like an aggressor, firespray or jumpmaster that has decent enough green dice that they can get decent mileage out of a reroll; because the idea is (as noted) to make her effectively biggs - if you're not shooting at the 24-point evading TIE advanced prototype (more or less) then you're accepting the 40-50 point large base ace being nigh untouchable.

Comparise two ships of two different factions is just silly and useless

In the case of top tier competitive list I've noticed a trend of list with high predictability. Like your listed example of a Xizor list, it's not that it can't compete with against net list with just average rolls, it's that one string of badluck can doom it. Most competitive list are a bit less prone to this due to token stacking, ridiculous mobility, high health, or the ever present Palpatine. TLT has outstanding damage because it's consistent. You're not gonna get any crazy 3-4 damage turns, but you'll rarely do less then 1 or 2 damage.

First off...you guys need to prune the posts you quote! It gets too crazy long when I ramble on too long and then someone else rambles on too long and then someone quotes both of us!

OK...I have to say with the Xizor list that it wasn't one bad roll. I had 5 Z-95's and Xizor with FCS firing at a Decimator for 4-5 turns and I couldn't get it below half hull. I....just...couldn't....hit! It was utterly astounding. It was a real fluke.

I get that you need redundancy. I feel like that list at the time had it and also the tools to beat all the other meta at the time, but it was considered DOA. I made mistakes or had a single bad round of dice and still was able to come back.

In my own case I just look at what I want the ship to do and what competition it has in the same price range.

My argument against Serissu remains the same, what are you giving up to use her? She's a 3 point tax over a generic model, that means you should be comparing her effect to what else you could be getting for that 3 points. Will you use her ability more then something like Dengar or Predator?

That's the crutch of it. If i put her with 2 wing mates how often will she activate in an average game? She can't keep up with a Ace like Fenn, so no promises she'll ever proc on him.

I get this and I think it is a valuable point to bring up. Personally, one of the best things about Serissu is that she is PS 8, which for the longest time in S&V, was a rare thing. It's still uncommon, and she is a pretty cheap ship that you can throw in somewhere. So....sometimes it might not even be her ability that you are using her for. You just want to go with VI and go after all the PS 9 people. That alone might be worth the extra points.

If you are using her for her ability, I think she's not too bad. Her ability is great on ships that do have Focus and tend to use them defensively each round. That's because she lets someone re-roll 1 die, and that's a difference of 3/8 or 5/8 success rate. This becomes important as it's been brought up a lot that there are not a lot of modifiers for Green Dice, but there are a ton for Red Dice. So, if you have someone...like Fenn Rau...that you really want to modify those green dice, then you actually can.

Next, I do question the lack of ability to catch up with Fenn Rau. Her dial isn't bad and she gets to Barrel Roll. If her main point is to just get in R1 of someone and maybe fire off a Tractor Beam then it's not so bad. This is especially true if you go with VI for her. Without the 3 hard turn, she might be hard to get to some places, but either the 2 hard turn or the 3 Bank can most likely get you in the same spot with a Barrel Roll. Not always, but hey, it's not crazy.

I do get that Serrisu's ability isn't super broken crazy when you compare her to other aces. I get that she isn't a super powerful choice. She might not be a bad choice in a certain list though. It might be just enough different that it tips the scale against the meta. I don't think she will become meta herself, but she could be used in a list that does well at a major tournament.

Still...the generics aren't bad, though, and I do argue that you could see them at the higher tables. It might not be all about the aces with the Scyk. The generic with EPT and even the low PS generic aren't bad these days. I wouldn't discount them from top tables. Sometimes it's not about the aces. Look at the Y-wing or Z-95.

If FFG is still feeling FAQ happy can we at least agree that Serissu should be effected by her own ability and Laetin should get a EPT?

Heck yeah! It would be MUCH better if Serissu worked on herself and Laetin had an EPT! Man, I'd love Laetin with EPT. It wouldn't even have to be PTL! I could see Juke being good.

Do you boys and girls feel this is now viable build for its points?

M3-A Interceptor: Cartel Spacer (14)

Hull Upgrade (3)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (2)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Problem I find is that it has very limited way to modify its attack dice.

Well....I've always found that HLC Sycks tend to draw too much attention...and they cost too much at that point. I still kind of think that. I would still recommend either a Mangler Cannon or an Ion Cannon over the HLC. It could work in a list, but I think that it's still too easy to kill if someone wants to...and they will want to more often with an HLC on it!

Comparise two ships of two different factions is just silly and useless

That's flat out wrong. You are playing vs. lists of all factions. If your ship A is strictly worse than the opponent's similarly costed ship Z, then the rest of your list will have to 'work harder' than the rest of your opponent's list in order to compensate. If that's not possible then your whole list is weaker than your opponent's list.

It's just example. I don't think that Serissu fits perfectly into current Meta or into Scum faction but I am just saying there is always bigger picture than direct comparison of 2 ships.

Comparise two ships of two different factions is just silly and useless

That's flat out wrong. You are playing vs. lists of all factions. If your ship A is strictly worse than the opponent's similarly costed ship Z, then the rest of your list will have to 'work harder' than the rest of your opponent's list in order to compensate. If that's not possible then your whole list is weaker than your opponent's list.

Well, the rest of the squadron needs to be taken into consideration. While Serissu can be weaker than Soontir on it's own, but it can work alongside with ships and tools Soontir doesn't have access to. Like VI Serrisu with Autoblaster backed with Manaroo can easily one-shot Soontir.

It's just example. I don't think that Serissu fits perfectly into current Meta or into Scum faction but I am just saying there is always bigger picture than direct comparison of 2 ships.

I agree. I'm arguing that direct comparison of ships is part of the picture, not 'silly and useless'. If you know Serissu is weaker than the Inquisitor you understand that the rest of your Serissu squad needs to complement her better than Palp Shuttle and an ace complement the Inquisitor.

Comparise two ships of two different factions is just silly and useless

That's flat out wrong. You are playing vs. lists of all factions. If your ship A is strictly worse than the opponent's similarly costed ship Z, then the rest of your list will have to 'work harder' than the rest of your opponent's list in order to compensate. If that's not possible then your whole list is weaker than your opponent's list.

No I don't agree at all. You can't paragone ship vs ship between factions just because you have to consider list w list (almost)...because you habe to consider all the tools that faction can use. That's why have a 2 segnors loop on Jumpmaster (unhiged astromech) and a 3 tallon roll into T-70 (R2). Can you immagine Unhiged Astromech at 1 point into rebels? Or Attanni Mindilink into Empire?

The cost of ships and upgrades are maded keeping in mind all the tools about one faction can use. So, comparise is tricky and unwise.

And that's a thing that a lot of people already don't understand.

I never comparised Serissu with Inquisitor...I said that they are both snipers. All the things up doesn't consider Inquisitor, but just any Advaced Prototype. The inquisitor itself doesn't need to arc dodge or looking for R1. Just because is always throwing 3 dice at R1-2-3, annull any R3 bonus on the enemy.

Serissu lost some mobility capacity, for a 4 red dice at R2-3 with no range bonus. And she no needs PTL because of Juke or (again, faction tools) Attanni Mindlink.

And with no stress (BMST anyone?).

Or at just 24-25 points she can bring a Tractor beam.

Inquisitor can't do any of these things...

So, is it useful comparise these two ships? NO. It's totally worthless, they works in different ways. Yes they are both 2 snipers, but doesn't mean they are equal. Ghost and Kihraxzes are both jouster: can you comparise them? Obviously not.

For 33 points you have the cheaper Ps8-10 HLC carrier in the game, into a flanker chassis with 1 bank maneuver, barrel roll, 4 total hp and action economy/modifaction.

Just to say, did anyone realize the synergies with Manaroo? Into a ManaAces you can actually use Manaroo as a blocker, keeping 1 focus tokent thanks to mindlink, and grants her 1 ag reroll thanks to Serissu.

Are you looking for Manaroo? She will be pretty hard to bring her down.

Are you looking for Serissu? Double focus+evade+StealthDevice..good luck.

Are you lookong for Fenn? I hope you will block it, otherwise...

But that's the oldest topic in the world: a single ship can pass from 'meh' to 'awesome', depends in which list you will run her.

So yes, I still consider Serissu and new Scyks as a pretty good ships. Just open your mind, and look for new synergies.

I do agree that you can't really look at cross faction comparisons too much. I feel like people do it too often. If you can't really take the equivalent in your faction, why bother comparing it to your own side? It's like when people say that Xizor was too expensive as you can get Soontir Fel cheaper. Well...he isn't Soontir Fel and you aren't playing Imperial. He's a totally different ship and even flies much differently.

I will say that it's OK to compare some ships, though. Look at the Scyk when compared to the Tie Fighter or the Z-95. I think it's worth looking at the base generics in that sense. Yes, you can't take a Tie Fighter in Scum, but the Scyk is very close, but has just a little bit enough to be different that the low PS generic is worth about 1 pt more than the Academy Tie Fighter. Not 2 pts, though. So, on that base level, I do think it's worth looking.

Do you boys and girls feel this is now viable build for its points?

M3-A Interceptor: Cartel Spacer (14)

Hull Upgrade (3)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (2)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Problem I find is that it has very limited way to modify its attack dice.

As someone said above, it's an awful fire magnet, but I believe it makes a wonderful build for Laeton, who loves to be focused.

I do agree that you can't really look at cross faction comparisons too much. I feel like people do it too often. If you can't really take the equivalent in your faction, why bother comparing it to your own side? It's like when people say that Xizor was too expensive as you can get Soontir Fel cheaper. Well...he isn't Soontir Fel and you aren't playing Imperial. He's a totally different ship and even flies much differently.

I will say that it's OK to compare some ships, though. Look at the Scyk when compared to the Tie Fighter or the Z-95. I think it's worth looking at the base generics in that sense. Yes, you can't take a Tie Fighter in Scum, but the Scyk is very close, but has just a little bit enough to be different that the low PS generic is worth about 1 pt more than the Academy Tie Fighter. Not 2 pts, though. So, on that base level, I do think it's worth looking.

I agree. The thing is that sometimes we don't get the difference between some similar ships, se we just think about "is worse than... is useless etc". Sometimes is true, some other...well, I think we judge something too fast, without study the ship itself.

But is just my thought.

Well....I've always found that HLC Sycks tend to draw too much attention...and they cost too much at that point. I still kind of think that. I would still recommend either a Mangler Cannon or an Ion Cannon over the HLC. It could work in a list, but I think that it's still too easy to kill if someone wants to...and they will want to more often with an HLC on it!

Thank you for the insight! Got my first Scyk as a Hangar Bay prize recently and few days afterwards new fix came up. This must be force's way to tell me to play this little thing.

I've played couple of games with it now (with mangler) against Defender lists, liked it alot and never lost the ship.

I'm experimenting now how to make the ship work the most cost efficient way and earn its place in my fleet. I noticed many times I had to roll unmodified reds cause focus had to be spent in defending roll so damage input was rather low. Not sure if bigger gun and raw dice is the the answer though

Attanni Mindlink on a TPV is pretty good. You get the Focus and either Evade or TL, which is nice.

I also like a cheap, generic Ion Cannon Scyk, as well.

Well, we all can agree that overall:

Paplshuttle > Manaroo

Inquistor > Serrisu

Soontir Fell > Fenn Rau

don't we?

So let's play Manaroo Aces vs Palp Aces in ie. following configuration:

Serrisu + VI, Heavy Scyk, Autoblaster, Stealth Device

Fenn Rau + Attanni, Concord Dawn Protector, Autothrusters

Manaroo + Attanni, R5-p8, Anti Pursuit Lasers, BMST.

Don't you think Palp Aces are in big troubles fighting those 3 weaker ships?

Going to be trying this today... against a phantom, inquisitor, and Tur.

"Syck'ers and the Mist" (100)

Tansarii Point Veteran — M3-A Interceptor 17

Attanni Mindlink 1

"Mangler" Cannon 4

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) 2

Ship Total: 24

Tansarii Point Veteran — M3-A Interceptor 17

Attanni Mindlink 1

"Mangler" Cannon 4

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) 2

Ship Total: 24

Tansarii Point Veteran — M3-A Interceptor 17

Attanni Mindlink 1

"Mangler" Cannon 4

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) 2

Ship Total: 24

Gand Findsman — G-1A Starfighter 25

A Score to Settle 0

Zuckuss 1

Collision Detector 0

Inertial Dampeners 1

Tractor Beam 1

Mist Hunter 0

Ship Total: 28

I'll lose the initiative bid, but have a nice block of PS 5 ships to maneuver together. Should be really scary to joust with this thing, and it's still maneuverable with a free focus every turn.

How do you think this will do?

Drop Zuckuss crew and put Attanni Mindlink on G1A and it will be pretty solid list

Do you boys and girls feel this is now viable build for its points?

M3-A Interceptor: Cartel Spacer (14)

Hull Upgrade (3)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (2)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Problem I find is that it has very limited way to modify its attack dice.

Not on it's own. Maybe next to Serissu to make target priority challenging to your opponent.

Ion Cannon or Mangler are good on the Cartel Spacer.

If you put HLC on a Scyk, go with any of the higher PS pilots as it will be worth the extra investment.

Mostly I think to put tractor beam on Serissu, but the idea to put HLC on Serissu that I have seen in this thread is intriguing.

(to all of you writing/quoting walls of text, I'm not reading any of it)

Attani Mindlink makes for insane levels of action efficiency if flown carefully. PS5 Mangler Scyks are an obvious candidate for the card. I love flying them and have done reasonably well with them after the title fix. If adding 33% more hit points for free doesn't make a ship stupid levels of broken, that ship was objectively terrible before.

Here's a question though:

Scyks with Mindlink vs Protectorates with Mindlink?

There are a lot of moving pieces here. Autothrusters? Concord Dawn Title? Point totals can be all over the place but the hard green turns are really, really nice with mindlink.

Disclaimer: I recognize the Scyk has received its fix. The extra hull puts the ship in an acceptable position and I'm happy to have it.

The Scyk works now and I'm happy. But it does not fly like an interceptor. What would you be willing to pay for this for an upgrade.

Koensayer 305R Ion Engines

Modification

M3-A Interceptor Only

When you reveal a [bank] maneuver,

you may treat that maneuver as a [hard turn]

maneuver of the same speed and direction.

Gives the Scyk reactive access to green 1 and 2 hard turns and puts a white hard 3 on the dial. Maybe too much? Goes from a very mediocre dial to one of the best in the game. Certainly flies more like an Interceptor. Maybe make it a title instead so you can't do both?

Here's a question though:

Scyks with Mindlink vs Protectorates with Mindlink?

Black Sun Ace with Mindlink. And BMST.

But the real answer is a mixture of the above with Palob.

Disclaimer: I recognize the Scyk has received its fix. The extra hull puts the ship in an acceptable position and I'm happy to have it.

The Scyk works now and I'm happy. But it does not fly like an interceptor. What would you be willing to pay for this for an upgrade.

Koensayer 305R Ion Engines

Modification

M3-A Interceptor Only

When you reveal a [bank] maneuver,

you may treat that maneuver as a [hard turn]

maneuver of the same speed and direction.

Gives the Scyk reactive access to green 1 and 2 hard turns and puts a white hard 3 on the dial. Maybe too much? Goes from a very mediocre dial to one of the best in the game. Certainly flies more like an Interceptor. Maybe make it a title instead so you can't do both?

I'd get behind that as a title. Seems the sort of thing a lighter, more mobile version of the scyk could use.

Attani Mindlink makes for insane levels of action efficiency if flown carefully. PS5 Mangler Scyks are an obvious candidate for the card. I love flying them and have done reasonably well with them after the title fix. If adding 33% more hit points for free doesn't make a ship stupid levels of broken, that ship was objectively terrible before.

Here's a question though:

Scyks with Mindlink vs Protectorates with Mindlink?

There are a lot of moving pieces here. Autothrusters? Concord Dawn Title? Point totals can be all over the place but the hard green turns are really, really nice with mindlink.

Flavour, I guess.

Protectorates are for mobility. If you want to boost/barrel roll+focus. And..."jousting"...with the title.

Scyks play in long range with cannons, and can turtle up with focus+evade.

Is dinamic jousting vs long range turtle snipe.