It's funny that the fix for the scyk is EXACTLY what many people on here had suggested. And now some people still don't think that's enough.

Xwing players today: "it's not broken, that means it's unplayable"

There is no way for every ship in this game to be tier 1. It just can't happen. Doesn't mean everything else is unplayable.

I wish I could like this more than once. None of the ships are "unplayable". Some are stronger point for point but all of them are usable.

Depends how you define playable.

If you look at it from the perspective of high level competitive games, not everything is playable. As in there's no reason to bring let's say a Kihraxz or a Starviper if your primary goal is to win games.

It's funny that the fix for the scyk is EXACTLY what many people on here had suggested. And now some people still don't think that's enough.

It's 100% a fix for the crappy title. The title is now definitely worth taking.

The title still takes a cannon and glues a set of engines on it. The question is whether the M3A as a whole is worth it. Without the title you're still paying a couple points over a TIE fighter for something very similar (yes you get a target lock and a shield over a hull, but a less good dial, which is what matters in a cheap blocker).

The title fix certainly doesn't hurt. The title on a basic M3A without actually buying a weapon isn't terrible now. It's worth it over a Z-95 I'd say, just about. The Veterans I'm not sure about. By the time you've sunk points for title and a cannon in there they're so expensive that PS5 really hurts them and you need action economy. Mindlink and PTL can do it but in both cases you can get into trouble where these guys need to K-turn and you can't because you're stressed. Laetin would be awesome if he had an EPT, but as it is, same problem, no action economy.

Personally the only M3A I see as viable remains Serissu. The trick is to keep her alive and make the other ships tempting enough that her floating around with a focus and evade and stealth device just isn't worth firing at. An extra hull for 2 points is no bad thing. Cannon to taste.

It's funny that the fix for the scyk is EXACTLY what many people on here had suggested. And now some people still don't think that's enough.

I think it's also a matter of expectation.

When this was suggested, the benchmarks for how much a ship would be improved by a fix were the A-wing and TIE Advanced. The Scyk fix is about on par with those IMO.

Meanwhile though we got x7 Defenders. Defenders went from terrible to amazing. Scyks went only from terrible to decent, so people are understandably disappointed.

I fly Scyks a lot, and I'm not disappointed. In fact, I'm very happy about it and I applaud FFG for making this somewhat bold/progressive decision (fixing a ship through errata rather than releasing a new product with a fix included for an older product).

Having said that, I don't have any delusions about the 'improved' scyk. Its undeniably better, but as mentioned above, its not in the same league as an X-7 defender, for example. But you won't hear any complaints from me! Something is better than nothing, and I look forward to flying scyks even more now.

Serissu (20)Attanni Mindlink (1)Tractor Beam (1)Stealth Device (3)"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)Zuckuss (28)Attanni Mindlink (1)Gunner (5)Fire-Control System (2)Tractor Beam (1)Mist Hunter (0)Guri (30)Attanni Mindlink (1)Fire-Control System (2)Autothrusters (2)Virago (1)Total: 100View in Yet Another Squad Builder I like the look of Serissu + priority targets, although I find it difficult to find another high 30 point option next to Guri. This Zuckuss is fun, but certainly overequipped.

Teroch w/VI, Title, AT 30 points (:

Another way that still viable is 2 of them as a support for a big ship. PS2 w/HLC is just 23 points, 20 with Manglers. Now are a good fillers. Like Dengar+2 TPV mindkinked, Asajj+2scyks etc

Test (98)

Serissu (30) - M3-A "Scyk" Interceptor

Attanni Mindlink (1), "Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (2), Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Fenn Rau (32) - Protectorate Starfighter

Attanni Mindlink (1), Concord Dawn Protector (1), Autothrusters (2)

Manaroo (36) - JumpMaster 5000

Attanni Mindlink (1), K4 Security Droid (3), Unhinged Astromech (1), Feedback Array (2), Ion Projector (2)

This list is really good. I've played against it twice with Palp Defenders and lost both times. To put that in perspective I'm 8-0 in tournament play with palp defenders and won a huge local tournament with them. The list counters them very well with ion projector and feedback, Serissu acts like the inquisitor but hits harder and every ship has a focus if not two all the time so juke does nothing. Manaroo is almost impossible to kill first because of Serissu's ability but at the same time you need all three ships shooting at Serissu to punch through two focuses and an evade with three dice.

That's almost exactly the same as the list I've been running.

Scyks are now solid. Not tier 1 absurdity, no, but now completely solid filler - the Mangler Scyk is now actually worth the 20 points it costs, and other cannons are reasonably balanced against that benchmark too (I'm a fan of HLC Sycks in a list where there are other threats even bigger than them).

But they're solid filler, and that has two limitations:

1) You need to make sure you've got a primary ship that's actually worth its salt, and values having filler flying alongside. (See Outriders + 2 Blues; I suspect Dengar plus a pair of Scyks may yet do similar wonders).

2) You need to accept that they're now worth their points... but there are ships out there (hello, x7 Defenders) that are better than their points. So make sure the rest of your list works suitably well; I don't think we'll see miniswarms of 5 of these clearing house any time soon, because there are still competitors out there that can out-joust them, solid as they may be.

3) If you're buying up to Taansaari Vet, you're paying a 1pt tax over the equivalent Black Squadron or Green Squadron pilots. Yes, you get an extra point of PS for it... but given the odds of that extra point making a difference, don't count on it. So only upgrade if you're sure the list will get enough worth out of it.

That said, I've gone from "One, bought because I liked the model" to "I'll now own three, because I intend to fly them." That's not bad! We'll see how it goes.

If you look at it from the perspective of high level competitive games, not everything is playable. As in there's no reason to bring let's say a Kihraxz or a Starviper if your primary goal is to win games.

That opinion probably makes sense if you're a WAAC player who will only EVER play the most highly regarded netlists out there and are only interested in chasing the latest meta down the street like some kind of loud and annoying terrier.

It probably works wonders if you have little to no imagination for squad building and little to no patience for playing the game and getting some practice in.

If your goal is to rock up to Regionals or above, check your phone to see what's winning, buy your ships on the day and then throw a bunch of dice at people, then yeah, I can see the merit of your argument.

But people who actually know what they're doing, on the other hand...

But people who actually know what they're doing, on the other hand...

Your childish 90's netlisting is evil and WAAC boo hoo rant aside, people who 'actually know what they're doing' have long ago realized that there are some ships/upgrades in this game that just aren't worth it from a purely mechanical standpoint, either because other ships do what they do better, or because what those ships do well is just not viable in game at a given point.

Yep but you do get the situation you got in Malifaux. Where a Master was considered the worse Master and no-one touched in competitive at all. That was until one of the better players out there took him to tournament, and went an entire year without a loss. Using the tools he had there to make the Master horrifically broken. The Master wasn't bad, but due to the echo chamber nature of game forums that was what everyone believed.

Common Knowledge of a few vocal players can sour a model to the point where no-one is willing to experiment with it. Serissu is a bit like this, at first glance she looks like a Scum Howlrunner, so people run her with a swarm... OFC because that is not really what she is they do awful with her. They then say how rubbish the ship is, so people don't notice what she really is is a support ship for an elite build.

All it would take is for someone to take a Mindlink squad or Serissu backed Elite squad and get to the top tables for opinions to switch.

Serissu was in big trouble when she showed up because she was flying a frame with major problems.

Increasing durability by a full third is now possibly enough to actually make a difference. At 23pts for a Tractor Serissu (the pure-support version, and practically a Biggs-alike for 2 points less and 3 PS higher), you can take her for the price of an HLC Scyk. Which is more valuable... will depend on what your other ships are doing.

Then again, why not both?

54pts spare for an ace of your choice, and Serissu can wreak havoc with arc-dodgers trying to avoid what should be an automatic, kill-it-now target. Could be funny.

TBH it depends on the PS of the ships she is flying with, I think the real issue with Tractor Beams is you really need to be the first shot so the rest of your crew can make us of the -1 Agility.

I'm not sure the frame was really an issue with 3 hits, Just the fact that people wanted to use her with a swarm. Even with 3 hits, and a Stealth device she would be taking shots away from ships you wanted to keep alive if they shot at her.

Serissu was in big trouble when she showed up because she was flying a frame with major problems.

Increasing durability by a full third is now possibly enough to actually make a difference. At 23pts for a Tractor Serissu (the pure-support version, and practically a Biggs-alike for 2 points less and 3 PS higher), you can take her for the price of an HLC Scyk. Which is more valuable... will depend on what your other ships are doing.

Then again, why not both?

Serissu (20)

Tractor Beam (1)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Cartel Spacer (14)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Total: 46

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

54pts spare for an ace of your choice, and Serissu can wreak havoc with arc-dodgers trying to avoid what should be an automatic, kill-it-now target. Could be funny.

Anyway another idea:

YV-666: · Moralo Eval (34)

Tractor Beam (1)

· Dengar (3)

· Zuckuss (1)

· 4-LOM (1)

M3-A Interceptor: Cartel Spacer (14)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (2)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

M3-A Interceptor: Cartel Spacer (14)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (2)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

M3-A Interceptor: Cartel Spacer (14)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (2)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

Serissu was in big trouble when she showed up because she was flying a frame with major problems.

Increasing durability by a full third is now possibly enough to actually make a difference. At 23pts for a Tractor Serissu (the pure-support version, and practically a Biggs-alike for 2 points less and 3 PS higher), you can take her for the price of an HLC Scyk. Which is more valuable... will depend on what your other ships are doing.

Then again, why not both?Serissu (20)Tractor Beam (1)"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)Cartel Spacer (14)Heavy Laser Cannon (7)"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)Total: 46View in Yet Another Squad Builder

54pts spare for an ace of your choice, and Serissu can wreak havoc with arc-dodgers trying to avoid what should be an automatic, kill-it-now target. Could be funny.

At this point you can upgrade the TPV to Laetin.

Anyway another idea:

YV-666: · Moralo Eval (34)

Tractor Beam (1)

· Dengar (3)

· Zuckuss (1)

· 4-LOM (1)

M3-A Interceptor: Cartel Spacer (14)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (2)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

M3-A Interceptor: Cartel Spacer (14)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (2)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

M3-A Interceptor: Cartel Spacer (14)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (2)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

I don't understand the blind hatred towards net list, in any game with a luck based variable people are inevitably going to crunch the numbers to reduce that variable. Yes, they do occasionally miss something that would otherwise work due to herd mentality. I believe that's the exception, not the rule. Some things are just rendered inferior by something that full fills the same exact role, but better.

Take the Hwk for example, love the ship, want to use it, but it's hard to justify over the Y-wing in most cases. They are just so similar.

-Both are dirt cheap turret carriers.

-Both have clunky dials with little green.

-Both lack base movement actions and action variety in general.

The Y cost 2 more points for the cheapest model. For 2 points you get;

- Durability. +1H, +2S

- Maneuverability. More options on the dial, K-turn.

- Primary damage. +1

- Options for ordinance, or double tap via title.

That's a lot of benefit for a mere 2 points. The HWK has crew over astro, this may be a arguable advantage depending on faction, but if so I'd say it's rather minor/non-existent. Scum side also gets the illicit option. So to justify the use of HWKs over Y I need to find a crew, Illicit, or pilot ability that is worth all the advantages listed above that dosen't put its point cost well over the cost of a simple Thug with TLT & Unhinged. Good luck.

Same thing applies with the Scyk, the upgrade helps, but the thing is we have the cheapest Kihraxz and Protectorate fighter at the exact same price as a Mango Scyk that fill the same role as a cheap filler dog fighter. What does the Scyk offer over current options?

Compared to the Kihraxz it has basically the same dial, 1 more green, different K turns, I'd give a extremely slight edge in maneuverability to the Scyk. Besides that we also trade 1H for 1A and the mango effect, this gives the Scyk the edge. This makes the Scyk slightly better then a ship that's been played with for a fair amount of time now and is widely considered terrible. Not exactly a stunning endorsement.

Moving onto the Protectorate we have a ship that puts up more of a fight. It has a vastly superior dial, trades 1 S for 1 H, and most importantly trades boost for evade. Focus is statistically better if your facing multiple shots or have 4A or more. It's also more flexible as you can use it on defense or offense. This generally makes focus the better action to take if you can only choose focus or evade. So this is a really good trade off as it allows you to take the ubiquitous auto thrusters and have the flexibility of both BR and boost. I just don't think the mango effect carries the little Scyk through on this comparison.

Now as great as I made that all sound, the basic Protectorate is basically a better Interceptor with a 1 point discount on a hull upgrade and the added Talon rolls. They have the same problem as generic Interceptors, relying on green dice is trash. It can swing either way with complete dominance or utter annihilation. In a competitive match, even a friendly one, you generally don't want to have the match decided more by luck then skill.

The one role it might be good for is as filler in a mind link squad, but even there the Scyk dosen't really stand out. A Concord vet with ML and title comes out at 24 points, same as a Tansarri Vet with title, mango, and ML. Obviously you could drop the title on the Protectorate for AT for 1 more point, or take both if you have the spare points. As for Serissu, she cost 2 more points then Howlrunner for a arguably worse effect(Red vs Green die,) and lacks the right ship support to make the most use of her effect. For example, how often do you see Howlrunner outside of a swarm? To get the most value out of Serissu you'd need cheap agile fighters that would want to stick close(I.E. Ties.) The less ships you have in your list the less value you receive from the aura, this is further complicated by the short range of the effect and the fact that it does not benefit her own ship. Ask yourself is the 3 points you pay for Serissu over a vet worth occasionally rerolling a single green die? How often does it come into effect in your games? What upgrade did you drop to fit her in the list?

In short, it's a start, but this is hardly a fix for the poor little Scyk.

The thing you forget with the HWK / Y-'wing comparison is the extra Agility, that means it will take less damage per shot. over the course of a game that can easily add up to 3 hits. Combine that with the fact that you rarely use the primary on either, and K-Turns only being a slight advantage due to turrets (normally a turn is just as good as a K-Turn when you don't need to face your target) they are very similar in ability. So it really comes down to whether you prefer team support which the HWK does better, or acting autonomously which the Y-Wing does better.

As for Serissu, she cost 2 more points then Howlrunner for a arguably worse effect(Red vs Green die,) and lacks the right ship support to make the most use of her effect. For example, how often do you see Howlrunner outside of a swarm? To get the most value out of Serissu you'd need cheap agile fighters that would want to stick close(I.E. Ties.) The less ships you have in your list the less value you receive from the aura, this is further complicated by the short range of the effect and the fact that it does not benefit her own ship. Ask yourself is the 3 points you pay for Serissu over a vet worth occasionally rerolling a single green die? How often does it come into effect in your games? What upgrade did you drop to fit her in the list?

You are completely wrong here, Serissu is not best with cheap spamable ships... There is actually no advantage to having more ships in her aura, because what matters is what enemy ships are firing not which of your ships are firing. Putting her near 1 ship the enemy wants to target like Fenn Rau is enough for her ability to trigger multiple times. She is more like Biggs than Howlrunner.

The thing you forget with the HWK / Y-'wing comparison is the extra Agility, that means it will take less damage per shot. over the course of a game that can easily add up to 3 hits. Combine that with the fact that you rarely use the primary on either, and K-Turns only being a slight advantage due to turrets (normally a turn is just as good as a K-Turn when you don't need to face your target) they are very similar in ability. So it really comes down to whether you prefer team support which the HWK does better, or acting autonomously which the Y-Wing does better.

The thing you forget with the HWK / Y-'wing comparison is the extra Agility, that means it will take less damage per shot. over the course of a game that can easily add up to 3 hits. Combine that with the fact that you rarely use the primary on either, and K-Turns only being a slight advantage due to turrets (normally a turn is just as good as a K-Turn when you don't need to face your target) they are very similar in ability. So it really comes down to whether you prefer team support which the HWK does better, or acting autonomously which the Y-Wing does better.

The Scum HWKs do very well by themselves. And even The Rebel HWK has been included in quad TLT lists, because a Rebel Operative with Chewbacca crew can definitly tank more than a simple gold squadron pilot.

As for Serissu, she cost 2 more points then Howlrunner for a arguably worse effect(Red vs Green die,) and lacks the right ship support to make the most use of her effect. For example, how often do you see Howlrunner outside of a swarm? To get the most value out of Serissu you'd need cheap agile fighters that would want to stick close(I.E. Ties.) The less ships you have in your list the less value you receive from the aura, this is further complicated by the short range of the effect and the fact that it does not benefit her own ship. Ask yourself is the 3 points you pay for Serissu over a vet worth occasionally rerolling a single green die? How often does it come into effect in your games? What upgrade did you drop to fit her in the list?

You are completely wrong here, Serissu is not best with cheap spamable ships... There is actually no advantage to having more ships in her aura, because what matters is what enemy ships are firing not which of your ships are firing. Putting her near 1 ship the enemy wants to target like Fenn Rau is enough for her ability to trigger multiple times. She is more like Biggs than Howlrunner.

So much that! She belongs in a list of other priority targets, probably two at most. With other goons she obviously becomes the priority target herself and won't do any work.

Well, in a swarm you're going to focus down Howlrunner in the same way, so I don't get it. But Serissu works in both ways, into a swarm and with high priorities just because def boosts are way better than attack boosts.

Think about it this way, you have a swarm of 5 M3-A, they will ofc shoot Serissu first, because she doesn't get the bonus, so her ability will not trigger once in the fight. With Howlrunner, she will normally stay at the back so be in long range and will evade. as long as she survives, you get 1 reroll for every model in your list, so having more models means more re-rolls. However you put Serissu with a Heavy hitter they will either shoot her, so won't be shooting at your damage dealer, or the damage dealer in which case you get a reroll every shot against them. So in a swarm Serissu does nothing at all, in a small elite force she is useful.