I can say from experience that one on one, Kavil with a TLT, predator and engine upgrade is a tough fight if the Defender doesn't have the PS advantage. He was supported by Fenn Rau and Old Terroch for MAD jousting.

What's in these hypothetical trifender squads anyway?

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Run Super Dash and Miranda and auto win vs defenders.

Not in any plane of existence does a decent defender list loose to that.

Run Super Dash and Miranda and auto win vs defenders.

Not in any plane of existence does a decent defender list loose to that.

Why not? You have 2 high PS ships with good offense, both of which have decent repositioning abilities (though, in Miranda's case, at the cost of attacking).

Run Super Dash and Miranda and auto win vs defenders.

Not in any plane of existence does a decent defender list loose to that.

Why not? You have 2 high PS ships with good offense, both of which have decent repositioning abilities (though, in Miranda's case, at the cost of attacking).

And both out PS the common defender builds

Miranda has one agility that's negated by crackshot juke and TB, in my case it'd face DD: the augmentation so that's vessery with TB Rexler with ion and my pattented tie shuttle.

So on one dice she can't dodge the TB with reroll and focus, then she has one dice vs the primary attack, then rex ions her and lays in with his primary turning hits into crits with the bomber attacking last she's dead or close to it.

If alive Miranda can not regen enough to survive and I take dash apart at my leisure.

The problem with Defenders is the fact that even if you expect the 4k, there is sometimes nothing you can do about it without exposing yourself to the other Defenders (remember, people usually run three, not one). I mean, it is not worth blocking one 4k if the other two Defenders tear you apart. In addition, in a joust scenario where you will have to stress yourself to k-turn, Defenders do it without stress and have a focus and an evade over you.

I have found that 3+ ships with 3 dice primaries plus Crackshot can deal with Defenders reliably. You will want to have the first engagement at R2 and with all of your ships targeting a single Defender. Also, always burn Crackshot to push damage through, even if it is a single point. If you manage to kill a Defender on the first pass, the game becomes much, much easier since they will be missing a third of their list most likely.

Also Old Teroch + Fenn Rau both with Fearlessness ruin a Defender's day.

However, I believe that Imperials have the best counter list to (3) Defenders. Try running Jax, OL, Wampa and Palpshuttle. I have been using that list with great success over the past month or so and have never lost a game to Defenders with it, as of yet. Jax disables all their tokens, OL locks them down and cannot be killed late game 1v1, Wampa is mostly filler to counter the odd ship you can't damage, but still is useful vs Defenders since he goes right though their tokens, dice and shields (with his ability obviously) and Palp is, well, Palp. Plus the list is very annoying to face, with the token and modification denial.

Miranda has one agility that's negated by crackshot juke and TB, in my case it'd face DD: the augmentation so that's vessery with TB Rexler with ion and my pattented tie shuttle.

So on one dice she can't dodge the TB with reroll and focus, then she has one dice vs the primary attack, then rex ions her and lays in with his primary turning hits into crits with the bomber attacking last she's dead or close to it.

If alive Miranda can not regen enough to survive and I take dash apart at my leisure.

Now, your build does have a strong advantage verses Miranda and once she's gone, Dash better be running worried, but not it's not quite on topic.

How to beat Trifenders. Focus fire is usually the best way. Tokens only help so far against multiple attacks. Also hard hitters like Fenn Rau help as well. 3 green dice with a focus and evade can only do so much against a fully modded 5 dice attack. Also robbing tokes help. People like Palob or Ol Terry can cause a huge pain to defenders. Omega leader laughs at them and can pinprick them to death. Rebel regen can outlast them.

But everything boils down to this. They are predictable. They normally fly at speed 3 or more and use the k turn all the time. So keep out of arc. If they cant shoot you you can't die and you can nibble them down to nothing.

As someone who have played a lot of trifenders, i can say that the things i don't like are:

Ships that can reposition themselves after i move.

Flying through asteroid fields in the middel of the board. Especially if it is hard for me to predict which way you're going to go through them.

Tractor beams.

Crackshot + HLC brobots. That is on average 4 hits against 3 evades + crack shot and the gunner ability.

Things i don't really care about:

2 or less tlt's shooting at me. I can usually get into range 1 before they shoot down a defender. Have yet to face 4 tlt ys, but that might be able to kill them off fast enough..

Stressbots. The list i run has 8 actions each turn, if you spend time stressing Ryad, i still have 6, and it is usually not hard for the defenders to break off, clear stress and regroup.

Homing missiles that aren't backed up by heavy firepower. If you have focus and TL against a defender with focus, on average it takes 2 damage.

High hp, low agility ships. Things like decimator and ghosts.

One of the things I usually do when playing defenders is to try to entice shots on ships that aren't damaged yet. E.g. only do a 2 maneuver with a full healt vesery, if they are shooting at Ryad, don't fall for this, I have lost count on the number of games I have won with 3 shieldless defenders

you shouldn't leave home without Carnor, good against everything, including defenders.

you shouldn't leave home without Carnor, good against everything, including defenders.

How to beat Trifenders. Focus fire is usually the best way. Tokens only help so far against multiple attacks. Also hard hitters like Fenn Rau help as well. 3 green dice with a focus and evade can only do so much against a fully modded 5 dice attack. Also robbing tokes help. People like Palob or Ol Terry can cause a huge pain to defenders. Omega leader laughs at them and can pinprick them to death. Rebel regen can outlast them.

But everything boils down to this. They are predictable. They normally fly at speed 3 or more and use the k turn all the time. So keep out of arc. If they cant shoot you you can't die and you can nibble them down to nothing.

No no no!

If you go in expecting defenders to endlessly k turn good pilots will eat you alive, only bad pilots are predictable.

you shouldn't leave home without Carnor, good against everything, including defenders.

Enjoy the target lock plus Juke coming back at you.

How to beat Trifenders. Focus fire is usually the best way. Tokens only help so far against multiple attacks. Also hard hitters like Fenn Rau help as well. 3 green dice with a focus and evade can only do so much against a fully modded 5 dice attack. Also robbing tokes help. People like Palob or Ol Terry can cause a huge pain to defenders. Omega leader laughs at them and can pinprick them to death. Rebel regen can outlast them.

But everything boils down to this. They are predictable. They normally fly at speed 3 or more and use the k turn all the time. So keep out of arc. If they cant shoot you you can't die and you can nibble them down to nothing.

No no no!

If you go in expecting defenders to endlessly k turn good pilots will eat you alive, only bad pilots are predictable.

X7s are crazy good jousters because the have 3 attack dice, backed up by 6 health, and a focus and evade every turn. The white 4 k turn is really good, but isn't needed every turn if doing a hard turn or bank gets you a better position.

I think it is sad that almost all of the answers here are purely list building theory. Flight patterns and asteroid placement are huge vs. defenders! They are great all-around ships, so it is more likely that victories will come through tactics and strategy, not tools and gimmicks in the list because defenders don't have any glaring weaknesses, like interceptors or other green dice reliant ships.

I like to place obstacles on my side of the board and don't leave any straight corridors to fly through. I start the game flying down my board edge, and I try to pull the defenders through the asteroids. When your opponent is facing towards the asteroids at R1-2 it is time to fly through and engage. If you can block the K turns with asteroids you could get shots with no retaliation, or with no free evade if they chose to do a slower maneuver to find room to K turn. Ideally you have one ship in your list that can beat a final defender in the end game, so keep that ship back or on the flank. Either your opponent will have to turn and switch targets instead of focusing fire, or you will get your desired matchup at the end.

If your opponent has a palpshuttle you can try to separate it from the defenders by baiting with a ship or two. Try to block K turns with either asteroids or your own ships, and make a mad dash for the shuttle and kill it as soon as possible. Killing a defender while palp is still active is stupidly difficult. The defenders will be defensive and offensive monsters, and that will start a war of attrition that few lists can come out on top of.

I am curious about different deployment and approach tactics. Have people tried split deployment? Do you fly in a fixed formation against them, or do you try to fly erratically and block?

I've played 4 games with OL, Ryad and Vessery. Won all 4.

People expect the K turns. Sometimes sure, they are the best thing to do despite being obvious. It's great to get into a position with criss-crossing kturns.

But when you do a 1 bank and they've shot past you...that's when you know you're playing OK with Defenders.

People expect the K turns. Sometimes sure, they are the best thing to do despite being obvious. It's great to get into a position with criss-crossing kturns.

But when you do a 1 bank and they've shot past you...that's when you know you're playing OK with Defenders.

This.

I've been playing 3 defenders or 2 defenders and a shuttle for a while now, against my friends and good players I get a tough match up because they know how maneuverable the defender is.

Against ok and worse players... they think I'm gonna K turn, then I 1 bank or even 1 turn into a position where they're getting 4 dice to the bum.

Defenders are incredibly hard to beat. It's not impossible, but its not easy, and suggesting you can play on their predictable k-turn is not the way to it in my opinion - because that predictable white Kturn might just come after an unpredictable red 1(and for the countess she'll shed the stress just for good measure).

We can theory craft this all we want (and lets continue to do so, because what else is the internet for if not theorycrafting games, porn and political rants on facebook?), but it's on the table you have to beat Defenders, and i know from being on both sides how hard that is.

Ryad is a particularly special case.

I'll do a 3K, clear the stress from the hard turn I just did, take an evade and then add on a focus whilst barrel rolling out of your arc or into R1. She's awesome. The 5K is always further than people think too.

If you can pick out when to make those shorter moves and you're careful not to get dragged into places where you can't use the bigger moves to get yourself out of trouble you're onto a winner.

The first mistake people make is giving the Defender lanes. Plenty don't give much thought to obstacle placement. Even if they put one down in an awkward spot you can build lanes off of it. Diagonal is very nice to have if possible. With the Ks you can stay in the lane if you want to. The rocks protect you and limit your opponent whilst you know you can bust out with a faster turn if need be.

As someone who loves Defenders and is running them I'm finding this thread just as useful.

It's pointing out what I need to do and making me more aware of the mistakes I can make.

1 bank, barrel roll... that's the hot ****.

Oh no, I've not got an evade token but seeing as I'm range 1 up your ass I can live with that. And I've got 6 hull/shield for a reason, after all. That people expect the 3s and 4s the whole time is precisely why the 1 bank (and even hard 1 with Vessery, as I pick up the TL anyway) is so **** good.

1 bank, barrel roll... that's the hot ****.

Oh no, I've not got an evade token but seeing as I'm range 1 up your ass I can live with that. And I've got 6 hull/shield for a reason, after all. That people expect the 3s and 4s the whole time is precisely why the 1 bank (and even hard 1 with Vessery, as I pick up the TL anyway) is so **** good.

The hot ****?

The rock ****?

Putting bounce in the moshpit?

Vessery's shooting mods being pretty much independent of himself really screws with people. Tee him up with the rest of the team (Ryad's PTL can be handy here) and he can do moves the opponent won't take into consideration.

It's a shame people won't open their ears and listen but instead parrot nonsense about how predictable the 4k is.

Banking is a critical skill to master if you want to be a decent defender pilot.

It's a shame people won't open their ears and listen but instead parrot nonsense about how predictable the 4k is.

Banking is a critical skill to master if you want to be a decent defender pilot.

Hey, that's fine. Makes it easier for those of us who are using them.

It's a shame people won't open their ears and listen but instead parrot nonsense about how predictable the 4k is.

Banking is a critical skill to master if you want to be a decent defender pilot.

Seriously. I've been running them a lot recently and I honestly don't use the K turn that much. If you can flank effectively, banks and turns are much more useful. Kiting, rather than jousting.

And liberal use of the 1 bank in particular can REALLY fox people who're expecting you to overshoot. Just because going fast is good doesn't mean going slow isn't sometimes the *perfect* choice.