How to beat them? Which squad and/or strategy? Asteroid placement, flight maneuver etc
Are there some tips how to beat 3 defender lists? Or two and ace?
What else except TLT spam? Is a TIE swarm a good counter for them or do they have a too weak attack per ship to make enough damage on defender?
What else except TLT spam?
Is TLT spam even good against Triple Defenders? Honestly, I'd expect that match to be in favor of the defenders.
Higher PS arc dodge (ps 8+). Can't beat you if they can't get a shot at you. They can't reposition brilliantly so arc dodge is your best bet.
This is going to sound dumb but just focus fire them. The free evade is very good but that only works on one attack. They don't have autothrusters or anything special on defense if there are 3 so just punch them. You should be careful on approach obviously since their plan will be similarly on focus fire.
TLT spam is actually rough on defenders, they only have greens and an evade, no thrusters, so if 4 tlt ywings shoot them in one turn it stands a good chance of killing a defender fully. Defenders also can struggle with range control so try to engage at the ranges best for you.
TLT spam is actually rough on defenders, they only have greens and an evade, no thrusters, so if 4 tlt ywings shoot them in one turn it stands a good chance of killing a defender fully. Defenders also can struggle with range control so try to engage at the ranges best for you.
Sure but like...I just did the math, the average damage here should be like 4.5. The first TLT strips tokens and expected damage is way down, and the other Y-Wings average like, 1.3 damage each.
That said, if the Defenders come in hot (land in R1 or R2 of initial engagement), they can also roll hot dice and take out a Y-Wing before it ever fires, which will in turn make for a pretty one sided match.
Also, don't the Defenders have more range control than the Y-Wings in this match-up? Or is that false since like, the obligatory 4-K is predictable?
I would say the Defenders have the range control advantage just because they will probably have higher PS and a Barrel Roll, notwithstanding the better dial. 4k is predictable, but especially agaisnt a ship like the Y-wing, that doesn't really matter.
I had success with Brobots. Controlling range is key.
I had success with Brobots. Controlling range is key.
This is a great idea as Bots can ave higher PS, put out some focused munition/cannons and do that mindlink thing even (not tried that). But sure, you know the 4Ks coming, but it's gonna hit hard and strip away a hit every time...
I have just started trying Old Teroch to counter defenders, but I don't have enough games with him to have any sort of conclusion about his effectiveness.
EPT's I'm trying are Attanni Mindlink & VI
Always include the title 
Some games I've not had auto-thrusters to save points
Please share Old Teroch verse Defender stories if you have any.
Bossk is always a goto ship that can hit those defenders.
Bossk / Crackshot / Dengar / Gunner / Tactician = 46 points
or a cheaper version
Bossk / Crackshot / Dengar / 4-LOM / Zuckuss = 41 points
This is a great idea as Bots can ave higher PS, put out some focused munition/cannons and do that mindlink thing even (not tried that). But sure, you know the 4Ks coming, but it's gonna hit hard and strip away a hit every time...I had success with Brobots. Controlling range is key.
100 points
PILOTS
Glaive Squadron Pilot (33) x 2
TIE Defender (34), Adaptability (0), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
Countess Ryad (34)
TIE Defender (34), Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
Edited by Segmentvs
I had success against Brobots with this list. Granted they were an asymmetrical Brobot list.
This is a great idea as Bots can ave higher PS, put out some focused munition/cannons and do that mindlink thing even (not tried that). But sure, you know the 4Ks coming, but it's gonna hit hard and strip away a hit every time...I had success with Brobots. Controlling range is key.
100 points
PILOTS
Glaive Squadron Pilot (33) x 2
TIE Defender (34), Adaptability (0), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
Countess Ryad (34)
TIE Defender (34), Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
It's not right to cut one of the Ion Engines to get Vessery in there instead?
Free Target Locks are the best Target Locks, I hear.
I had success against Brobots with this list. Granted they were an asymmetrical Brobot list.This is a great idea as Bots can ave higher PS, put out some focused munition/cannons and do that mindlink thing even (not tried that). But sure, you know the 4Ks coming, but it's gonna hit hard and strip away a hit every time...I had success with Brobots. Controlling range is key.
100 points
PILOTS
Glaive Squadron Pilot (33) x 2
TIE Defender (34), Adaptability (0), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
Countess Ryad (34)
TIE Defender (34), Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
It's not right to cut one of the Ion Engines to get Vessery in there instead?
Free Target Locks are the best Target Locks, I hear.
I mainly do focus or barrel roll. I didn't miss the special ability.
Double arcs and biggs do it if you dont mind the seemingly endless torture of r2d2 norra v an x7 lategame and winning on time by 5/6 mov
Edited by ficklegreendiceI ran Miranda Dash and went an entire game against Palp Defenders without even getting shot at. Defenders are very predictable. 2 choices, arc dodgers or stress inducers.
I've had some really good fun fielding Carnor Jax against them as well.
Like previously stated they don't like arc dodgers and Jax is just extra mean VS them.
People say defenders are predictable. Have you played good defenders? They use that predictability against you. Yeah, those slow turns are red, but if it gets you the right position, it's worth it.
Quite frankly, like others have said, the white K might be what a lot say is the defenders best friend. In reality it's the one banks.
I slow roll my Defenders far more then use the k turn. But I also use ionD so range is my friend.
People say defenders are predictable. Have you played good defenders? They use that predictability against you. Yeah, those slow turns are red, but if it gets you the right position, it's worth it.
Quite frankly, like others have said, the white K might be what a lot say is the defenders best friend. In reality it's the one banks.
Exactly this, the one banks are when I win games.
If you have ships with tight 1 and 2 turns, consider cluttering up the middle of the table with asteroids. Defenders like long, sweeping moves, especially with the /x7 title. Making those 4Ks and 3-banks harder to judge will certainly not help them.
TLTs are a good way to wear down Defenders. They don't get Autothrusters and are rarely given stealth Devices so turrets are much more effective against them than vs Interceptors or the inquisitor. It also means you can carry on shooting when they K-Turn behind you. ARCs are good for the same reason.
Homing Missiles and Regen also work well against them so Miranda is a great choice.
Focus fire whenever possible. They have double the hit points of Interceptors but have much more limited damage mitigation options which means you can exhaust their tokens faster.
Lastly, Defenders hate Ion. /x7 Defenders lose their free Evade when ionised and you can easily avoid the double-tap of a /D Defender if you know it is doing a 1 straight. Conner Nets, Ion Bombs, turrets, Ion Projectors etc, all are good against Defenders.
Edited by KarhedronI have just started trying Old Teroch to counter defenders, but I don't have enough games with him to have any sort of conclusion about his effectiveness.
EPT's I'm trying are Attanni Mindlink & VI
Always include the title
Some games I've not had auto-thrusters to save points
Please share Old Teroch verse Defender stories if you have any.
Bossk is always a goto ship that can hit those defenders.
Bossk / Crackshot / Dengar / Gunner / Tactician = 46 points
or a cheaper version
Bossk / Crackshot / Dengar / 4-LOM / Zuckuss = 41 points
Yeah, get him Guidance and an Homing Missile. I've done 5 dmg onto a fresh Countess weeks ago.
For 5 points, I will consider that.
People say defenders are predictable. Have you played good defenders? They use that predictability against you. Yeah, those slow turns are red, but if it gets you the right position, it's worth it.
Quite frankly, like others have said, the white K might be what a lot say is the defenders best friend. In reality it's the one banks.
Exactly this, the one banks are when I win games.
Experts bank noobs endlessly k turn, people seem so proud about beating "predictable" defenders without realizing how little that means.
Two years I've been explaining this and it's still not sunk in, there are no predictable ships only predictable pilots.
People say defenders are predictable. Have you played good defenders? They use that predictability against you. Yeah, those slow turns are red, but if it gets you the right position, it's worth it.
Quite frankly, like others have said, the white K might be what a lot say is the defenders best friend. In reality it's the one banks.
Exactly this, the one banks are when I win games.
Experts bank noobs endlessly k turn, people seem so proud about beating "predictable" defenders without realizing how little that means.
Two years I've been explaining this and it's still not sunk in, there are no predictable ships only predictable pilots.
Quoted for the truth.
Back to the original topic - a pal of mine has a 100% record against triple defenders with Whisper, Echo and an academy tie. Something like 15-0 and at decent tournament level. Phantoms are uniquely placed to hit through the token stacks and get into positions defenders find awkward.
Also, don't the Defenders have more range control than the Y-Wings in this match-up? Or is that false since like, the obligatory 4-K is predictable?
Sorry I was unclear. The 'defenders have meh range control' was a separate thought from the tlt paragraph, defenders definitely have better range control than y wings since asteroids basically have better range control than y wings. Defenders struggle against mass tlt due to just being slowly and consistently plunked to death unless they get some good engagements.
Outside of that matchup, defenders have worse range control than other imperial or 'ace' ships because no boost and only 1 action per turn (ptl countess being the exception).
Things that mess with the defender's tokens are also crazy good against them, so carnor, palob, old teroch, and 4lom/zuckuss crew make them upset.
Tractor beam (the cannon or the Shadowcaster) combined with an asteroid placement that makes it harder to k-turn. Combine this with either a high PS pilot (Ketsu with VI) or something that lowers the enemy PS (Torkil) and you'll push those tie defenders out of their intended flight path and on asteroids while denying them their attack for the turn.
Fun stuff.