Now that the uboats have been well and truly buried with the deadeye restriction, I can't help but feel like we suffered some unnecessary collateral damage with the loss of the R4 agromech (the first "attempt" at a uboat nerf). As unlikely as it seemed that FFG would hard errata the Uboats, i guess it's even MORE unlikely that they would ever come back on their decision and "un-faq" the R4 agromech.

Now he's now just a kind of slow K4 droid, giving you a TL for the next turn...great. I can kinda see the use on a tlt y wing with a focus each turn, but replacing the cheaper and better unhinged is not an option in my mind! Granted, I think he could be used as neat setup on a missile Scout: joust, take a focus, spend it and gain the TL, and you can do any kind of sloop or K turn and fire the torpedo on the next turn (or fire a torpedo with a focus if you perform a white or green maneuver). Nowhere near as efficient or deadly as the Uboat alpha, but that was just crazy...

Thoughts?

It's designed for the ship it comes with. Warthog Y wings.

We can suppose about why they changed it all we want, but what they said was "we were wrong, this is how the card always should have been interpreted." If they change it now, it will definitely be because they want to alter the balance around the card.

I doubt they will, though, because they've only straight up changed 4 cards. 3 of them were from this current FAQ, the other one was tactician. For a few sweet seconds, tactician wasn't limited.

the only real hurt with the nerfed r4 is Kavil as it affects his Blaster Turret..... And as far as I know im the only one who plays that any way

The Aggromech FAQ was actually clearing up timing issues, not 'nerfing' the torpedo toilet. The only thing it really nerfed was Blaster Turret Kavil, and now that we have the cheaper Dorsal that's not even an issue.

Y-wings forever!!!! Except GUNBOAT!!!!

(... and ninja'd)

Now that the uboats have been well and truly buried with the deadeye restriction, I can't help but feel like we suffered some unnecessary collateral damage with the loss of the R4 agromech (the first "attempt" at a uboat nerf). As unlikely as it seemed that FFG would hard errata the Uboats, i guess it's even MORE unlikely that they would ever come back on their decision and "un-faq" the R4 agromech.

Now he's now just a kind of slow K4 droid, giving you a TL for the next turn...great. I can kinda see the use on a tlt y wing with a focus each turn, but replacing the cheaper and better unhinged is not an option in my mind! Granted, I think he could be used as neat setup on a missile Scout: joust, take a focus, spend it and gain the TL, and you can do any kind of sloop or K turn and fire the torpedo on the next turn (or fire a torpedo with a focus if you perform a white or green maneuver). Nowhere near as efficient or deadly as the Uboat alpha, but that was just crazy...

Thoughts?

Well, he is a bit better then that, as long as you have a focus you can use both focus and target look on the same attack (albeit in the wrong order). he is basically a better version of Han Solo crew. But yeah, I liked playing blaster-turret Kavil.

We can suppose about why they changed it all we want, but what they said was "we were wrong, this is how the card always should have been interpreted." If they change it now, it will definitely be because they want to alter the balance around the card.

The change was triggered by changing the rules when we went to the Force Awakens core set. It was a 'core rules' change which did it - the previous FAQ pointing out that this now meant you could fire Deadeye missiles at Dark Curse meant it was inevitable that they'd rule that way.

It does have advantages over the overclocked R4, because a Y-wing really, really struggles to get rid of stress.

Tactician got changed the moment the YV-666 hit the tables, as a 180' primary arc with three crew slots essentially became "oh dear god what have we done". In that case, they brought out the errata before a triple tactician YV-666 became a thing.

I totally agree with the op. I figured they would have done it in the same FAQ. I think it was an oversight. The Aggro helped jumps be relevant in late game. Which now with the nerf it needs to be played differently

Tactician got changed the moment the YV-666 hit the tables, as a 180' primary arc with three crew slots essentially became "oh dear god what have we done". In that case, they brought out the errata before a triple tactician YV-666 became a thing.

Yeah that's what I meant. They released it, and then they released the change. Nobody managed to get a game in, but for a few precious seconds the stress horseshoe of doom was a thing.

Because a triple Tactician Decimator wasn't scary enough. Double Tac with Gunner sounds just as scary, there's no coming back from quad stress unless you just don't care about stacking infinite stress tokens

It's designed for the ship it comes with. Warthog Y wings.

We can suppose about why they changed it all we want, but what they said was "we were wrong, this is how the card always should have been interpreted." If they change it now, it will definitely be because they want to alter the balance around the card.

The Aggromech FAQ was actually clearing up timing issues, not 'nerfing' the torpedo toilet. The only thing it really nerfed was Blaster Turret Kavil, and now that we have the cheaper Dorsal that's not even an issue.

R4 was specifically designed to be used with Blaster Turret. That's how they advertised it in the previews of Most Wanted. They didn't just magically realize that it created timing issues and chose to clarify it, they deliberately did it to kill one certain combo.

Because a triple Tactician Decimator wasn't scary enough. Double Tac with Gunner sounds just as scary, there's no coming back from quad stress unless you just don't care about stacking infinite stress tokens

Is it really that hard to avoid both Decimator arcs? It's not as if they are super maneuverable.

Because a triple Tactician Decimator wasn't scary enough. Double Tac with Gunner sounds just as scary, there's no coming back from quad stress unless you just don't care about stacking infinite stress tokens

Is it really that hard to avoid both Decimator arcs? It's not as if they are super maneuverable.

It's got a pretty good dial and EU gives it large base boost. It's not Soontir but then it doesn't have to be. The YV-666 triple or quad stressing in 180 degrees was just too much for FFG even with a worse dial. I don't remember anyone using stress all that much from multiple tacticians before the nerf anyway...

What were we talking about?

Because a triple Tactician Decimator wasn't scary enough. Double Tac with Gunner sounds just as scary, there's no coming back from quad stress unless you just don't care about stacking infinite stress tokens

Is it really that hard to avoid both Decimator arcs? It's not as if they are super maneuverable.

It's got a pretty good dial and EU gives it large base boost. It's not Soontir but then it doesn't have to be. The YV-666 triple or quad stressing in 180 degrees was just too much for FFG even with a worse dial. I don't remember anyone using stress all that much from multiple tacticians before the nerf anyway...

What were we talking about?

Well, you'll probably get one or two stress out of it. But a double decimator list with gunner and tactician falls mighty fast.

About the topic at hand: R4 Aggromech is just as it used to be, and no change is needed. The only thing that was nerfed about it was it's synnergy with Deadeye due to timing (not yet having a target when you pay the cost of the EPT), which I believe should still stand.

What were we talking about?

Bacon, I think.

Now that the uboats have been well and truly buried with the deadeye restriction, I can't help but feel like we suffered some unnecessary collateral damage with the loss of the R4 agromech (the first "attempt" at a uboat nerf). As unlikely as it seemed that FFG would hard errata the Uboats, i guess it's even MORE unlikely that they would ever come back on their decision and "un-faq" the R4 agromech.

Now he's now just a kind of slow K4 droid, giving you a TL for the next turn...great. I can kinda see the use on a tlt y wing with a focus each turn, but replacing the cheaper and better unhinged is not an option in my mind! Granted, I think he could be used as neat setup on a missile Scout: joust, take a focus, spend it and gain the TL, and you can do any kind of sloop or K turn and fire the torpedo on the next turn (or fire a torpedo with a focus if you perform a white or green maneuver). Nowhere near as efficient or deadly as the Uboat alpha, but that was just crazy...

Thoughts?

Dengar/RecSpec/R4 disagrees that he's just a worse version of K4.

So

No.

The nerf is fine, the nerfed version is fine (though maybe a point overcosted, or OCR4 a point under), there's nothing to worry about.

Nerf the agromech nerf? I'm not bothered. Just don't nerf bacon!

I totally agree with the op. I figured they would have done it in the same FAQ. I think it was an oversight. The Aggro helped jumps be relevant in late game. Which now with the nerf it needs to be played differently

Has been mentioned before but there is absolutely no need to change ruling on Agromech to help jumpmasters. The ruling on the agromech only invalidated using it with deadeye. The OP is incorrect. If you spend a focus during an attack, you get a TL on the defender immediately and may spend it on that attack .

The change to agromech was to make it fit in the current timing windows correctly. If you spend a focus before an attack for deadeye or blaster turret, you cannot receive a TL because no defender has been declared yet.

Agromech works just fine, as intended.

Blaster Turret sucks again. As intended?

Outside of torpedo boats, the only casualty of the R4 change was the Blaster Turret.

So really, who cares? All of the other turrets are better options and don't have such demanding requirements to use.

I totally agree with the op. I figured they would have done it in the same FAQ. I think it was an oversight. The Aggro helped jumps be relevant in late game. Which now with the nerf it needs to be played differently

Has been mentioned before but there is absolutely no need to change ruling on Agromech to help jumpmasters. The ruling on the agromech only invalidated using it with deadeye. The OP is incorrect. If you spend a focus during an attack, you get a TL on the defender immediately and may spend it on that attack .

The change to agromech was to make it fit in the current timing windows correctly. If you spend a focus before an attack for deadeye or blaster turret, you cannot receive a TL because no defender has been declared yet.

Agromech works just fine, as intended.

Blaster Turret sucks again. As intended?

I've just understood my mistake, I think I was still stuck on the whole Deadeye problem of "paying the cost of the weapon" before naming the target, thus making TL impossible.

@thespaceinvader Dengar/RecSpec/R4...Hadn't thought of that, I like it! Gives you the change of firing a torpedo on your "revenge" shot, which is nice and nasty.

You're missing the point.

It gives you most of a focus and most of a target lock on each of your primary weapon shots every round. It makes an efficient jouster more efficient by boosting his damage more than either upgrade would do alone.

You roll to hit, you get an average of hit hit focus blank at r1. You spend the focus for hit hit hit blank, and you reroll the blank for an hit hit hit hit or hit hit hit blank. If you're feeling sneaky you could also put on Calculation to allow then flip another eyeball, but it's probably not worth it.

It's not (just) about getting the TL for later, it's more about getting it for *now*.

R4 was specifically designed to be used with Blaster Turret. That's how they advertised it in the previews of Most Wanted. They didn't just magically realize that it created timing issues and chose to clarify it, they deliberately did it to kill one certain combo.

I'm going to disagree on this point unless we can suddenly drop proton bombs from our slam maneuver as advertised.

It turns out that article writers are often not great on rules and occasionally the developers aren't either, see the current kyle katarn + wingman faq which actively goes against the cards as written.

The Aggromech FAQ was actually clearing up timing issues, not 'nerfing' the torpedo toilet. The only thing it really nerfed was Blaster Turret Kavil, and now that we have the cheaper Dorsal that's not even an issue.

R4 was specifically designed to be used with Blaster Turret. That's how they advertised it in the previews of Most Wanted. They didn't just magically realize that it created timing issues and chose to clarify it, they deliberately did it to kill one certain combo.

For R4 Agromech to work the way that it used to it would either need to receive an errata or have the rules for the attack sequence rewritten. If they are going to errata anything to make Blaster Turret better, I'd rather see them change it to require a focus to fire but not make you discard it (like Proton Torpedo) or do away with the focus requirement completely.

If they are going to errata anything to make Blaster Turret better, I'd rather see them change it to require a focus to fire but not make you discard it (like Proton Torpedo) or do away with the focus requirement completely.

Doing away with the focus requirement completely would just make it too similar to the dorsal turret but substantially better. Removing the requirement to spend the focus token might be a nice option.

an attack for deadeye or blaster turret, you cannot receive a TL because no defender has been declared yet.

Agromech works just fine, as intended.

Blaster Turret sucks again. As intended?

"again"?

implying it stopped sucking at one point?

honestly, the attacking timing errata doesn't really change anything for r4. Blaster turret is still a trash-tier card and you're better off rolling with it on TLTs regardless

honestly, the attacking timing errata doesn't really change anything for r4. Blaster turret is still a trash-tier card and you're better off rolling with it on TLTs regardless

Especially since Blaster Turret + R4 Agromech costs the same as taking a TLT instead.