So, my 1st thread about Jyn was a great discussion. My second about Obi, not so much. In hindsight that was my fault because there was an active Obi Won vs Diala thread. I hope this will insight some good talk.

I just started to learn Imperial assault when this wave was released. I was immediately drawn to the Inquisitor between his figure and the name of the command card "hunt them down" it just sounds awesome. When I got a handle on what this guy can do I was enamored. Without further ado, the deployment and command card.

Stats: 9 cost 15 health RGY Melee With deadly! option for ranged attack RY with white die for defense with defensive. Surges +1 damage Pierce 3 and Cleave 3. Overall Wow, very impressive and yet when I first had him hit the table I feel like I played him wrong. He was not as effective as I had hoped, I quickly figured out why (I think). I was using lightsaber throw way to much. Maybe it was the visual in my head of the dual saber flying through the air, or hoping for that ranged hit plus cleaving (not very likely lol) but I was using him as a ranged character and it was not very good. Then I made another error and kept running him in (ill X at least one of these attacks) and swinging the 3 die attacks. He would then get riddled down and die. Once again lack luster for me lol. Finally (for me) I started using him effectively. As an assassin type, being more patient. This was in huge part to me learning the game better.

Hunt them down: Lightsaber throw gets +2 Accuracy and cleave 2. Now is this that good? If I roll a hit and surge can I cleave 5? I can hit a figure 4 spaces ahead of me and 5 behind? Grasping how this works and how to use it effective has been aloof to me. Should I learn it better? Is it worth it? I don't know.

I have gone on long enough. Whats your experience with the inquisitor? How wrong or right am I?

I find TGI tough to play bc as an Imperial, its hard to get focused so youre rolling only 2 dice. Now getting his CC is nice and can be lethal, but if you have to rely on getting a figs CC to be effective, is he really effective then?

For 9 pts you can put in eStormtroopers or even go Bossk w/Temp Alliance (and then add in another Merc). Now hes going to get some cool CC coming up in the form of Hunter archetype cards, so he might have a bit more coming his way. But currently I struggle to put him in to be effective. When he gets close though, he can hit hard. Hes rolling the same dice as RGC and has Deadly.

~D

ThereIsNoTry plays him really well. I think many people don't use him aggressively enough which waste his strengths.

I chose not to include him in my Imperial Squad at Gen Con as I just didn't think he did quite enough for 9 points.

Hunt them Down is a brutal card, but my main problem is that his normal lightsaber throw (without that card) is not quite enough damage for a 9-point figure generally (it's only slightly better than a eSaboteur's attack).

I think he's the only Imperial Hunter so building a squad using lots of the new Hunter Command Cards from Jabba's Realm is going to require a Temporary Alliance to bring in some guys like Bossk in order to have redundancy.

ThereIsNoTry plays him really well. I think many people don't use him aggressively enough which waste his strengths.

I chose not to include him in my Imperial Squad at Gen Con as I just didn't think he did quite enough for 9 points.

Hunt them Down is a brutal card, but my main problem is that his normal lightsaber throw (without that card) is not quite enough damage for a 9-point figure generally (it's only slightly better than a eSaboteur's attack).

I think he's the only Imperial Hunter so building a squad using lots of the new Hunter Command Cards from Jabba's Realm is going to require a Temporary Alliance to bring in some guys like Bossk in order to have redundancy.

But he does have a 3 die melee attack with 5 speed, you don't HAVE to light saber throw?

Hunt them down: Lightsaber throw gets +2 Accuracy and cleave 2. Now is this that good? If I roll a hit and surge can I cleave 5? I can hit a figure 4 spaces ahead of me and 5 behind?

If you gain Cleave 3 and Cleave 2, and the target of the attack suffered damage from the attack, you perform Cleave 3 and Cleave 2 after the attack resolves in your preferred order, selecting a valid target for each the cleave separately, which for a ranged attack is within the accuracy value achieved for the original attack and in line of sight at the moment you are resolving each cleave. The Cleaves are not combined.

This means The Grand Inquisitor can finish off upto 3 figures with a Lighsaber Throw. If the target was defeated, the two cleave targets could've even been hidden behind the original target of the attack - you have line of sight when the target is removed, or in the opposite direction.

the inquisitor dies to 4 elite trooper shots (my opponent plays 9 elite trooper figures)if he does not dodge...and his main attack against zillo technique usually does not kill a trooper in one go (if trooper rolls 2-3 blocks)...so a waste of points (tried it many times)..usually he rolls 5 dmg and 1 surge (and that is not a bad roll)...so with downgrading pierce 3 to 1 and discard of a card the trooper takes just 4 dmg

My experience with the Inquisitor is;

When being shot at, if you can use camouflage (perhaps along with Deflection) on the Inquisitor then he becomes hidden, then when the Inquisitor next attacks if you can then play Hunt them Down, then you get the surge (from hidden unless canceled)! Then if you can also play Element of Surprise to attack a figure that didn’t have line of sight on him then you can cleave 5 on another figure 5 spaces away from the Inquisitor.

So he can saber throw at a figure in one direction and cleave 5 a figure in any (even the opposite) direction up to 5 spaces away. And if he has movement left can duck away behind the troopers.

I combine him with 2 Estormy units, Zillo, and 12 points (variety) he seems to work well!

And remember as the guys at Vader’s Finest say “command cards win games”.

the inquisitor dies to 4 elite trooper shots (my opponent plays 9 elite trooper figures)if he does not dodge...and his main attack against zillo technique usually does not kill a trooper in one go (if trooper rolls 2-3 blocks)...so a waste of points (tried it many times)..usually he rolls 5 dmg and 1 surge (and that is not a bad roll)...so with downgrading pierce 3 to 1 and discard of a card the trooper takes just 4 dmg

How does your opponent play 3 units of elite troopers?

Unless you mean 2 x EStorm + 1 ESnow.

How does your opponent play 3 units of elite troopers?

Unless you mean 2 x EStorm + 1 ESnow.

Or Temp Alliance for eWing Guard.

~D

If you gain Cleave 3 and Cleave 2, and the target of the attack suffered damage from the attack, you perform Cleave 3 and Cleave 2 after the attack resolves in your preferred order, selecting a valid target for each the cleave separately, which for a ranged attack is within the accuracy value achieved for the original attack and in line of sight at the moment you are resolving each cleave. The Cleaves are not combined.

But the two separate cleaves could be taken against the same figure thus, amounting to 5 dmg, right?

I've had limited experience with or against TGI (is that a legit abbreviation?) but he seems really good at taking out or placing serious damage on weaker figures. I don't think he's designed to be a super monster, lone ranger type figure. He definitely needs to strike and then retreat behind a corner or other troopers. I imagine him leading a group of troopers, they get their shots off, he comes in and finishes figures off. His lightsaber attack is great as most are, but I find surging for the Cleave and the +1dmg happens just as often as the Pierce 3, because killing 2 troopers is better than just beating down one. He has to have support. Unlike Obi-wan who with a similar attack can get focused and take out bigger figures. It seems they shouldn't be that much different but with TGI speed and throw and cards, he does better as a "hit and run" figure than a jump out and take a few licks and strike them down. Part of it has to do with Obi-wan's defense being a bit tougher and his other abilities, he tends to go out on his own a bit more.

I think TGI has more staying power than 3 elite troopers if played like a character and not a throw-away, he definitely does more outright damage with his lightsaber, but you don't always want to over-extend him.

But the two separate cleaves could be taken against the same figure thus, amounting to 5 dmg, right?

Yes, you can select the same target for the second cleave (of course neither cannot be the target of the attack).

ThereIsNoTry plays him really well. I think many people don't use him aggressively enough which waste his strengths.

I chose not to include him in my Imperial Squad at Gen Con as I just didn't think he did quite enough for 9 points.

Hunt them Down is a brutal card, but my main problem is that his normal lightsaber throw (without that card) is not quite enough damage for a 9-point figure generally (it's only slightly better than a eSaboteur's attack).

I think he's the only Imperial Hunter so building a squad using lots of the new Hunter Command Cards from Jabba's Realm is going to require a Temporary Alliance to bring in some guys like Bossk in order to have redundancy.

But he does have a 3 die melee attack with 5 speed, you don't HAVE to light saber throw?

I think if we get the other Inquisitors, that may allow me to use him. The more "Force-User" archetypes the better b/c you can use the CC on more than 1 of them.

~D

ThereIsNoTry plays him really well. I think many people don't use him aggressively enough which waste his strengths.

I chose not to include him in my Imperial Squad at Gen Con as I just didn't think he did quite enough for 9 points.

Hunt them Down is a brutal card, but my main problem is that his normal lightsaber throw (without that card) is not quite enough damage for a 9-point figure generally (it's only slightly better than a eSaboteur's attack).

I think he's the only Imperial Hunter so building a squad using lots of the new Hunter Command Cards from Jabba's Realm is going to require a Temporary Alliance to bring in some guys like Bossk in order to have redundancy.

But he does have a 3 die melee attack with 5 speed, you don't HAVE to light saber throw?

Sure, if you can get in melee range but sometimes you can't... Even his 3-Die melee attack doesn't do as much damage to a single target as Obi (ignoring deadly and cleave) who costs less and is tougher. Basically for 9 points in Imperial I'd rather have eStormtroopers or Royal Guards (for 8 points) to run objectives and defend my Stormtroopers. (Or eHeavy Stormtroopers for Blast 2 or splash in Bossk with Temp Alliance).

I understand what you are saying. It seems the Elite Stormtroopers really do hold that staple slot for imps.

That shows that there is no power creep even with agressive pricing and awesome abilities. Elite Stormtroopers and Probe Droids are the benchmark.

That shows that there is no power creep even with agressive pricing and awesome abilities. Elite Stormtroopers and Probe Droids are the benchmark.

Yep, I am kinda upset by this.

I was very excited by the Inquisitor initially. I play a lot of RGC so this guy looked right up my alley. RGC lite.

In practice however, I find him incredibly underwhelming.

He doesn't seem to have the presence or the same threat/fear that RGC does. He can't get extra attacks. He's hitting once and it's not an amazing attack.

Pierce is nice but he only has +1 damage. So often the pierce will be wasted.

Cleave is great but not always possible.

He's tough to kill and can get rid of that dreaded dodge but ultimately his damage output is fairly low.

Lightsaber throw is also pretty weak without his command card. Then it's great coz it kills a trooper with cleave automatically as long as you get enough surges.

There's no insurance with this guy. A bad roll is a huge waste. He has no rerolls, no extra attacks etc...

He does roughly 5 damage on average before cleave. A stormtrooper can do 4-5 consistently with rerolls. 3 Troopers do much more damage than he can even with cleave. I know which I'd rather.

It's not entirely fair to compare him to troopers as you'll likely be taking him WITH troopers, but once Jabba comes out, I think jet troopers and dewbacks will be far more interesting and better value than the Inquisitor.

I've said this in the past on various "this costs too much" threads. Any 8pt or more figure really needs more than one way to do damage, or needs to be very consistent.

Compare the Inquisitor to Bossk for example. Bossk is cheaper, does HEAPS more damage and has a mini grenade. I'd argue his command card is better than the Inquisitor's too. And he's tougher to kill with his auto recover and built in block.
Even at 2 pts less, Obi-Wan does more damage, and is just as hard (if not harder) to kill. That's before easy rebel focuses etc.... A focused Obi-Wan is terrifying btw.

The one thing Inquisitor does have going for him is he's a force user. Unfortunately all the dark side force user cards are very expensive, and you'll still want lots of trooper cards in your deck so it makes fitting them in difficult. It's hard to justify taking 5+ command card points for a single figure. Force lightning is great and combos well with grenadier, but other than that... he's just disappointing.

It sucks coz he looks great on paper, but I've never found him to be overly useful and never found him to be scary (playing with or against him). I really want to like him, but I just don't know what he does better than anyone else.

In most cases I'd rather pay 9pts for Bossk (with Temp Ally) than 9pts for the Inquisitor.

I think the inquisitor might get better when we get more force users and more force user command cards, but right now he just doesn't do enough of anything to be worth it over other similar units. He seems to be built as a trooper counter (and we've seen these more and more recently) but apart from his command card, he's not really amazing at that either. Banthas, Bossk, even Davith do a better job at that, so will Vinto and Jabba, Dewbacks etc....

I find that after taking 2x Elite Stormtroopers in a list... I need some other hard hitter. Something that can drop 6+ damage or some blast or double attack or something. The Inquisitor kind of does what the stormtroopers already do. Stormtroopers themselves aren't bad at killing other troopers either. So it can be a bit of trooper overkill. That's why I like a Bossk or something like that. Hell even a eNexu with a few command cards does a better job usually.

I was very excited by the Inquisitor initially. I play a lot of RGC so this guy looked right up my alley. RGC lite.

In practice however, I find him incredibly underwhelming.

...

I find that after taking 2x Elite Stormtroopers in a list... I need some other hard hitter. Something that can drop 6+ damage or some blast or double attack or something. The Inquisitor kind of does what the stormtroopers already do. Stormtroopers themselves aren't bad at killing other troopers either. So it can be a bit of trooper overkill. That's why I like a Bossk or something like that. Hell even a eNexu with a few command cards does a better job usually.

I've tried using the RGC before, but I've just not found him to be durable enough or cost-effective enough. After reading your posts about the RGC (here and also in another thread: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/231235-getting-into-ia-royal-guard-champion-a-good-investment/?p=2440264) I'll have to look into him again.

However, the RGC also costs 6 (SIX!) points more than the Inquisitor (15 vs 9). ...And has less health (RGC: 13, Inq: 15). That's a big deal. Now, the way you've described using him does sound appealing (ie, as a Bantha, so he makes a 3-dice attack 4x in a row before retreating to safety), so I'll have to revisit him. I really like how my paint-job turned out on my RGC, so I really would like to use him more often.

That being said, I think that you and I just flatly disagree about the relative value of these pieces. I somehow managed to place 3rd after Swiss at the GenCon Nationals this year. I ended up losing to the eventual champion (Brian VdG), but that was also the only game all day where I lost more than half of my figures. In almost every other game I ended up finishing before the time limit, and those wins were primarily from aggression and taking out my opponents' figures, rather than points-denial or something like that--my point here is simply that these games were combat-heavy. And in each of those games, my Inquisitor was a force to be reckoned with.

One of the cool things was that I was able to use him in a number of different ways as different situations arose. A couple of times I was able to use him as a nova-strike piece (using Element, Primary Target, Force Rush, Force Surge, etc), and other times I was able to use his movement and LS-Throw ability to reach around and score the final kill on the last figure of a Group. More than once, I was able to turn the tables in a match, simply with a carefully-calculated nova-strike from my Inquisitor (at the end of the round, and then start again with him in the next round).

I think I only lost him twice in all 7 of my games, so I didn't have a problem with his survivability. The combination of his speed (the Force User cards are great here) and defensive reliability ("Defensive" guarantees a block), along with forward-thinking placement by me, allowed me to get him where I needed him to be without a problem most of the time. And then once he was there, he was able to make the kills he needed to make, so it wasn't a big deal if he took some damage afterward--especially since he had 15 Health!

He was also inexpensive enough that I could afford to have 2 groups of elite troopers, along with some rHKs, which made for a lot of damage output every round. You couldn't fit all of those figures in if the RGC was in the squad...the HKs would probably have to go. Here was the squad, FWIW:

I was thrilled with how this squad and this piece performed all day. Hunter cards were a good choice for my Deck, since both my Inquisitor and my Droids could use them. The only change I'd consider in this squad might be to use Bossk and rHKs (allows the addition of Zillo), rather than the Inquisitor and rHKs. It would play quite differently, but it does appeal to me in other ways.

We all know that Imperial squads are 22-pt squads with 2 groups of eStorms pre-included in every build. I'm not sure that I'd replace a group of eStorms with the Inquisitor (though that might be good in some squads) most of the time, but I have no difficulty adding him to bring the squad to 27pts. I've found that he's well worth his points and tends to dominate the game when used properly.

I was very excited by the Inquisitor initially. I play a lot of RGC so this guy looked right up my alley. RGC lite.

In practice however, I find him incredibly underwhelming.

...

I find that after taking 2x Elite Stormtroopers in a list... I need some other hard hitter. Something that can drop 6+ damage or some blast or double attack or something. The Inquisitor kind of does what the stormtroopers already do. Stormtroopers themselves aren't bad at killing other troopers either. So it can be a bit of trooper overkill. That's why I like a Bossk or something like that. Hell even a eNexu with a few command cards does a better job usually.

I've tried using the RGC before, but I've just not found him to be durable enough or cost-effective enough. After reading your posts about the RGC (here and also in another thread: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/231235-getting-into-ia-royal-guard-champion-a-good-investment/?p=2440264) I'll have to look into him again.

However, the RGC also costs 6 (SIX!) points more than the Inquisitor (15 vs 9). ...And has less health (RGC: 13, Inq: 15). That's a big deal. Now, the way you've described using him does sound appealing (ie, as a Bantha, so he makes a 3-dice attack 4x in a row before retreating to safety), so I'll have to revisit him. I really like how my paint-job turned out on my RGC, so I really would like to use him more often.

That being said, I think that you and I just flatly disagree about the relative value of these pieces. I somehow managed to place 3rd after Swiss at the GenCon Nationals this year. I ended up losing to the eventual champion (Brian VdG), but that was also the only game all day where I lost more than half of my figures. In almost every other game I ended up finishing before the time limit, and those wins were primarily from aggression and taking out my opponents' figures, rather than points-denial or something like that--my point here is simply that these games were combat-heavy. And in each of those games, my Inquisitor was a force to be reckoned with.

One of the cool things was that I was able to use him in a number of different ways as different situations arose. A couple of times I was able to use him as a nova-strike piece (using Element, Primary Target, Force Rush, Force Surge, etc), and other times I was able to use his movement and LS-Throw ability to reach around and score the final kill on the last figure of a Group. More than once, I was able to turn the tables in a match, simply with a carefully-calculated nova-strike from my Inquisitor (at the end of the round, and then start again with him in the next round).

I think I only lost him twice in all 7 of my games, so I didn't have a problem with his survivability. The combination of his speed (the Force User cards are great here) and defensive reliability ("Defensive" guarantees a block), along with forward-thinking placement by me, allowed me to get him where I needed him to be without a problem most of the time. And then once he was there, he was able to make the kills he needed to make, so it wasn't a big deal if he took some damage afterward--especially since he had 15 Health!

He was also inexpensive enough that I could afford to have 2 groups of elite troopers, along with some rHKs, which made for a lot of damage output every round. You couldn't fit all of those figures in if the RGC was in the squad...the HKs would probably have to go. Here was the squad, FWIW:

9 ▪ The Grand Inquisitor

9 Elite Stormtrooper

9 Elite Wing Guard (I didn't like them and have since replaced them with another group of eStorms instead)

8 HK Assasin Droid

1 ▪ Temporary Alliance

2 Imperial Officer

2 Imperial Officer

I was thrilled with how this squad and this piece performed all day. Hunter cards were a good choice for my Deck, since both my Inquisitor and my Droids could use them. The only change I'd consider in this squad might be to use Bossk and rHKs (allows the addition of Zillo), rather than the Inquisitor and rHKs. It would play quite differently, but it does appeal to me in other ways.

We all know that Imperial squads are 22-pt squads with 2 groups of eStorms pre-included in every build. I'm not sure that I'd replace a group of eStorms with the Inquisitor (though that might be good in some squads) most of the time, but I have no difficulty adding him to bring the squad to 27pts. I've found that he's well worth his points and tends to dominate the game when used properly.

Thank you for your post and insight. I have been playing Imperials a lot in the past 2 weeks and have heavily tested combinations of Estorm, ESnow, Inquisitor, Blaise, Officer, and the occasional droid. I have not splashed scum but I am going to give it a shot this weekend. of all the combinations the inquisitor is always the weak link. As a 9 point single figure that is not focused he just does not hit hard enough for me to want him in my list. But I know I am better now then when I first had him hit the table so I am going to revisit him.

As far as presence goes, the people I play against really pay attention to him and he draws the attention of them.

The biggest benefit with RGC is that people rarely play against him and often underestimate him. The more I play him the worse he gets (locally) because people learn to respect and fear him.
I certainly don't think he's the strongest figure around. I just like the huge damage potential.
This game can swing a lot. I find most of my games end up being pretty one sided.... either I kill something super important and the enemy list falls apart, or I loose something big (like RGC).
That being said, a bunch of stormtroopers is still pretty competitive where as a rebels list where luke or leia die early is going to struggle.

My biggest problem with RGC is not that he's expensive. He could probably use a little bit more health compared to some of the recent releases, but don't forget he's Black and White. Rolling an average of 2 block and one evade is pretty close to completely shutting down most 2 dice attacks. For example.... elite troopers have a 55% chance to do 1 damage (before rerolls).
In some ways that's pretty **** survivable. I think he's at least on par with the Inquisitor there.
The biggest problem is that because of his high cost, there's really no list variety with him. You simply have to take the two eStormies and you get no other choices. You simply need the bodies to back him up.

The only change I'd consider in this squad might be to use Bossk and rHKs (allows the addition of Zillo), rather than the Inquisitor and rHKs.

And that right there is why I'd never take Inquisitor again. Bossk just does everything better (apart from speed 5) and is cheaper, can hit more stuff, gets multiple attack routes and is probably harder to kill. Especially if you add Zillo like you said.
It's not that the Inquisitor is bad... there's just better options at that points level.

RGC still does OK because there just isn't anything that does his particular role. Bantha maybe... but only in a Merc list as you need Beast Tamer.

In the end it depends what you play against often. I've found that having one hard hitting figure is important because if you ever come up against AT-ST, Vader, even a Luke .... small attacks like troopers just can't get through. Nothing worse than a wasted attack.

Having the variety of lots of bodies, lots of smaller attacks, some big attacks, some high speed, some tough tanky unit etc.... that balance is what makes a good competitive list I think.

That's why I think the Inquisitor disappoints me. Maybe I just need more time with him, but it feels like he just doesn't hit hard enough most of the time.

The biggest benefit with RGC is that people rarely play against him and often underestimate him. The more I play him the worse he gets (locally) because people learn to respect and fear him.

I certainly don't think he's the strongest figure around. I just like the huge damage potential.

This game can swing a lot. I find most of my games end up being pretty one sided.... either I kill something super important and the enemy list falls apart, or I loose something big (like RGC).

That being said, a bunch of stormtroopers is still pretty competitive where as a rebels list where luke or leia die early is going to struggle.

My biggest problem with RGC is not that he's expensive. He could probably use a little bit more health compared to some of the recent releases, but don't forget he's Black and White. Rolling an average of 2 block and one evade is pretty close to completely shutting down most 2 dice attacks. For example.... elite troopers have a 55% chance to do 1 damage (before rerolls).

In some ways that's pretty **** survivable. I think he's at least on par with the Inquisitor there.

The biggest problem is that because of his high cost, there's really no list variety with him. You simply have to take the two eStormies and you get no other choices. You simply need the bodies to back him up.

The only change I'd consider in this squad might be to use Bossk and rHKs (allows the addition of Zillo), rather than the Inquisitor and rHKs.

And that right there is why I'd never take Inquisitor again. Bossk just does everything better (apart from speed 5) and is cheaper, can hit more stuff, gets multiple attack routes and is probably harder to kill. Especially if you add Zillo like you said.

It's not that the Inquisitor is bad... there's just better options at that points level.

RGC still does OK because there just isn't anything that does his particular role. Bantha maybe... but only in a Merc list as you need Beast Tamer.

In the end it depends what you play against often. I've found that having one hard hitting figure is important because if you ever come up against AT-ST, Vader, even a Luke .... small attacks like troopers just can't get through. Nothing worse than a wasted attack.

Having the variety of lots of bodies, lots of smaller attacks, some big attacks, some high speed, some tough tanky unit etc.... that balance is what makes a good competitive list I think.

That's why I think the Inquisitor disappoints me. Maybe I just need more time with him, but it feels like he just doesn't hit hard enough most of the time.

2 sets of Estorms > Vader. I find THIS to be a problem. Estorms are just so good. If you don't believe me try it. 6 attacks then 5 then 4 of 5 average damage on 4 average block will chip away and then when one stormy dies focus another to do MORE damage. But were here for the inquisitor not the trooper spam. Is Bosk really better? Same cost really (1 point for the card that allows you to play him in imperial) Hmmm even with the static block I think he goes down faster then the inquisitor. he does have the indiscriminate fire but the Inqis is a 3 die attack. I need to play with both of these now and put them under a microscope... dammit lol

2 sets of Estorms > Vader. I find THIS to be a problem. Estorms are just so good. If you don't believe me try it. 6 attacks then 5 then 4 of 5 average damage on 4 average block will chip away and then when one stormy dies focus another to do MORE damage. But were here for the inquisitor not the trooper spam. Is Bosk really better? Same cost really (1 point for the card that allows you to play him in imperial) Hmmm even with the static block I think he goes down faster then the inquisitor. he does have the indiscriminate fire but the Inqis is a 3 die attack. I need to play with both of these now and put them under a microscope... dammit lol

eStormies are amazing. That's why they are the benchmark for checking other units against. They are the best value.

Bossk is also amazing because he's just flat out consistent. You never get a bad roll for Bossk. The worst he can roll is 1 damage and a surge. Which turns into 3 damage and Pierce 2 because he has built in damage.

Zillo knocks him down a notch but the consistency is amazing. He'll average 5-6 damage with every shot and in merc lists he's easy to focus for even more damage. He's not reliant on the surge either so a white dice blocks 1 or dodges. A black dice will block 1 at most. So unless you have Cunning, Bossk is dropping 5 damage on you consistently.

If you throw both into the calculator. Inquisitor and Bossk do about the same on average against a black dice, and the Inquisitor does worse against the white (though he does have dodge). So it's not a simple as 3dice vs 2dice. I'll take +2 dmg by default over a second dice every day.

And that's before his grenade or command card which can be devastating (either to your health or command deck). Being able to take a hit, and throw out an attack + indiscriminate fire is amazing and not difficult to do. Inquisitor can't attack twice not matter what.

He has a white dice so can dodge just as well as the Inquisitor. Get's a built in block which is better than the Inquisitor's ability and recovers 2 every turn which means you have to focus him down or you're wasting attacks. 10 health with auto recover 2 is probably a little bit worse than 15 health, but he makes up for it by being a ranged character with a minimum range of 3.

Admittedly Bossk becomes even more dangerous with Gideon.... both because of focus and the extra movement, but it's important to consider that since the Imperials can't boost their characters like that.

As for stormies being better than Vader... that's only true because of the range. Which is also why Bossk is better than the Inquisitor.

But that's also in a vacuum. Depending on positioning, stormies might not be able to escape from Vader, or he can drop urgency or force rush, or he has an officer or he's simply sitting on two objectives daring you to come to him. He's not just hard to kill and does lots of damage, he's also points denial. it's not a simple comparison because the roles are completely different.

2 sets of Estorms > Vader. I find THIS to be a problem. Estorms are just so good. If you don't believe me try it. 6 attacks then 5 then 4 of 5 average damage on 4 average block will chip away and then when one stormy dies focus another to do MORE damage. But were here for the inquisitor not the trooper spam. Is Bosk really better? Same cost really (1 point for the card that allows you to play him in imperial) Hmmm even with the static block I think he goes down faster then the inquisitor. he does have the indiscriminate fire but the Inqis is a 3 die attack. I need to play with both of these now and put them under a microscope... dammit lol

eStormies are amazing. That's why they are the benchmark for checking other units against. They are the best value.

Bossk is also amazing because he's just flat out consistent. You never get a bad roll for Bossk. The worst he can roll is 1 damage and a surge. Which turns into 3 damage and Pierce 2 because he has built in damage.

Zillo knocks him down a notch but the consistency is amazing. He'll average 5-6 damage with every shot and in merc lists he's easy to focus for even more damage. He's not reliant on the surge either so a white dice blocks 1 or dodges. A black dice will block 1 at most. So unless you have Cunning, Bossk is dropping 5 damage on you consistently.

If you throw both into the calculator. Inquisitor and Bossk do about the same on average against a black dice, and the Inquisitor does worse against the white (though he does have dodge). So it's not a simple as 3dice vs 2dice. I'll take +2 dmg by default over a second dice every day.

And that's before his grenade or command card which can be devastating (either to your health or command deck). Being able to take a hit, and throw out an attack + indiscriminate fire is amazing and not difficult to do. Inquisitor can't attack twice not matter what.

He has a white dice so can dodge just as well as the Inquisitor. Get's a built in block which is better than the Inquisitor's ability and recovers 2 every turn which means you have to focus him down or you're wasting attacks. 10 health with auto recover 2 is probably a little bit worse than 15 health, but he makes up for it by being a ranged character with a minimum range of 3.

Admittedly Bossk becomes even more dangerous with Gideon.... both because of focus and the extra movement, but it's important to consider that since the Imperials can't boost their characters like that.

As for stormies being better than Vader... that's only true because of the range. Which is also why Bossk is better than the Inquisitor.

But that's also in a vacuum. Depending on positioning, stormies might not be able to escape from Vader, or he can drop urgency or force rush, or he has an officer or he's simply sitting on two objectives daring you to come to him. He's not just hard to kill and does lots of damage, he's also points denial. it's not a simple comparison because the roles are completely different.

The Estorm doesn't have to escape from vader they can just surround and shoot 6times to his 1 attack every round for every command card you can pick for vader there are just as good ones for Estorms. I think you can put them in a vacuum because its the same point cost. Which is better at pushing damage out, flanking, objective running, and as you said it range vs melee? There really is no comparison here.

I like what you said about Bosk V Inqis. I really like hit and run on characters like bosk and to the limit (so good with bosk) and single purpose.... Inquisitor ca force lightning though... thats gotta count for something haha

How are your stormies surrounding Vader? He can kill 2 every turn and force choke another one (if not moving). He's killing 2.5 troopers every activation if you just stand there. Meanwhile troopers do 1 dmg to him on average. Even focused they push through less than 3 damage. It's going to take like 10 attacks at least to kill Vader with troopers. They absolutely need to keep him at a distance.

Even with reinforcements Vader can easily get through 6 troopers in 4 turns. 6 troopers can of course kill Vader in 2-3 turns but they have to use their range. That's all I was saying. Vader has a weakness. Just like any melee character.

Unless your melee character is faster than the ranged character, they will never reach you (without officer or command card tricks).

That's why it's not really fair to compare the two. It should in theory be impossible for a melee character to ever beat a ranged one (apart from a double activation I guess).

And something else that often trips people up when comparing figures (specifically Vader and RGC). You NEVER take Vader and RGC without 2x eStormies. Which means saying eStormies are better value is pointless since you're taking the maximum allowable eStormies anyway.

That being said, I prefer the RGC to Vader. They do similar damage, have similar toughness, and RGC has speed 6 which greatly helps reduced that weakness that melee characters have.

It's also why most new melee characters have some other ability that doesn't require adjacency. Be it extra speed, or a "pull you back" whip, or a charge or a objective negating bubble etc...